My husband is obsessed with another woman. Today I found a sketchbook full of sketches of her (my H is an artist) and photocopies of pictures of her, which he apparently made from photos of her she had displayed at her desk at work.<P>Back on April 21, I wrote a post entitled "His Affair" in which I talked about my H admitting to me that he felt he was "in love" with a co-worker. The relationship was never physical, and she did not return his feelings. <P>He never seems to want to discuss this relationship, especially after he found out about my affair. I guess what he feels for this woman doesn't seem like such a big issue to him anymore since he now knows I had a "real" affair.<P>But today, I brought it up after I found these pictures. I watched him sit in front of me and cry like a baby, as he talked about how he can't get this woman "out of his system." He works very closely with her, and sees her every day at work. When I (very calmly, very gently) asked him what drew him to her, what he liked so much about her, what kind of a person she was...he could hardly answer my questions. He says he doesn't even know her that well, but he feels very strongly drawn to her, a feeling he's never had for anyone before.<P>He couldn't describe her interests, her goals, her values, nothing. All he could say is that she is very friendly and outgoing and he is very physically attracted to her. They have had lunch together on many occasions. She is engaged to a long-term boyfriend, and has made it clear to him that she does not want to pursue a relationship.<P>I also looked in our paper shredder today and saw several sheets of notebook paper (shredded up, of course) full of my H's handwriting. I asked him what the pages contained. He sobbingly replied that it was stuff he had written about her, trying to convince himself that he wasn't really in love with her.<P>I am stunned. I don't even know how to take all this. My H said that he finds it "impossible" to be physically attracted to two women at once, so as soon as he started developing this...what is it?...crush, obsession, lust, puppylove??...he couldn't feel the same about ME anymore. And he claims he felt this "whatever" almost as soon as he met her, about two years ago!!!<P>SO...no wonder he never wanted to make love, never wanted to touch me, turned me away, etc. etc.!!! NO WONDER EVERYTHING CHANGED SO MUCH. He was always thinking of her, wishing he could be with her. I can't begin to describe how horribly confused I've been for the past 18 months or so (even the past 6 months of my affair), unable to figure out why our once-fantastic relationship was going down the toilet. So now I'm left with what seems like the ashes of TWO affairs. My full-blown physical one, and the one in my H's head.<P>He says this woman is looking for another job. I feel like my H's feelings for me have NO CHANCE of returning as long as he continues to see her on a daily basis. All this on top of him discovering and trying to recover from MY affair...what a MESS.<P>I feel numb. Now I just don't know if there's any possible way to get through this. The crazy thing is...my affair was the "real" one, and yet what I feel/felt about the OM is nowhere near the frantic obessiveness that my H feels for this woman. What he feels is not even what I would call "love," as he says he hardly knows her. The whole thing seems so crazy and hard to believe or understand. How can he feel so strongly about someone he isnt' even really close to??? I don't get it!<P>If anybody has an experience with something like this, or words of comfort or advice...please send them my way. I'm feeling very hopeless. I just know I never ever expected to find myself in this kind of tangled mess after a mere four years of married life.<P>

Hello calla, I don't have any suggestions at this point, but I want to let you know that even though I haven't had the same exact experience I can certainly have an idea of what you're feeling.<BR>We all do.<P>Not to dicourage you I think you will need a longer period than some of us, because this "obsession" not being fulfilled might take some more time to be worked.<P>You do have some positive things though. He was honest in his answers to you, it seems, that might help.<P>And although I"m usually a big supporter of people that continue working on their relationship even when the spouse keeps working with the op, I feel this case is one of those that might benefit from a different approach. The no contact thing, changing jobs if possible.<P>You see, in my case, and some others in here. Affair did go trough stages and at some point became physical. The question how would it be... was answered. In your h's case however it seems it was not and it won't be. The question will be there, hanging for quite some time.<P>I don't know. Plan A won't hurt and might be able to get his mind on something else than this woman. But it certainly will have to be adapted to the situation.<BR>I guess you can try anything that will attract his attention and that is pleasant. THat might be a start. <BR>CHeck back into your relationship and see if you can find any week links. Your husband might not even be aware of them, but if you can find them and work on them maybe you'll be able to get some results.<P>Hugs<BR>Kat<P>------------------<BR>"Each and everyone of us is deserving of a gentle thougth, a kind word and the gift of understanding"

Calla,<P>I think i know what ur H is feeling, although in my situation i took it a step further. And my fantasy actually became reality. I too have been trying to get OW out of my mind but its almost impossible. I have stopped seeing her its been 4 mths sice no contact. I have always had this vision of a perfect woman since i was younger, everything about this person her pyshical attributes, her personality, the things she would do to me, the way she acts, her intelligence everything. And this woman fit it almost 100%, so how could i not fall in love with her. I don't know what i am trying to tell you but just this is how i feel. You said urself what u felt for OM was nothing like how he feels for this woman and he 's not had an affair with her. As I he must realise that the OW is unattainable ( harder for me than him) and start to appreciate what he has instead of pining for what he doesn't.

Kat,<BR>You're right that at least my H was honest. I can tell his feelings for this OW are killing him. And I did try very hard to be open-minded and gentle when asking him about her and his feelings for her.<P>It's interesting to me that our reactions are so different. His primary emotion (expressed, at least) at discovering my A is anger. When he tells me how drawn he is to this OW, all I feel is PAIN, no anger at all. All I think is, how can I compete? How can I compete with an unrealized fantasy that exists in his mind?<P>Over the past year, my H has gone from being a loving and attentive mate and father, to spiraling down into a horribly depressed and anti-social person who hardly smiles and "questions who he really is." The more I think about things, the more I begin to understand that his unrequited love for OW must be THE central cause for all this pain and confusion. It's mind-blowing to see how destructive these feelings he has for her have been both to our marriage and to his concept of self.<P>I'm trying hard not to feel hopeless about all this. He said he even tries to think about aspects of her that he would find unappealing in a relationship, like the fact that she watches a lot of TV (H hates television). It's just so hard for me to imagine him wanting someone other than me THAT much. He can't even tell me what she "does" for him, or what needs she meets. He can't think of any!!! He just has this senseless attraction...he even told me that I have been an "awesome" wife (up until my affair, of course) and that his feelings for her were not the result of something I did wrong. Wow, I'm really rambling (something I do when I'm upset) but I know you are right about him having to get away from her if there is any hope.<P>painforever,<BR>I hate to say it, but it's reading stuff like what you wrote that makes me feel like "why bother trying?" Maybe in some cases these strong feelings for the OP cannot be changed. You said yourself, "How could I not fall in love with her?" because she measured up so well to your "ideal." Well, I guess if you can't come up with enough positive things about your wife, or if you can't remember why you fell in love with her in the first place and asked her to marry you, then there really isn't much hope. It's the same for me. My H says I've been a good wife and mother to our son, but apparently I can't compete with whatever "magic" he's feeling for her. H and I are beyond the "magic" stage, we've seen each other throw up, changed dirty diapers together, fought over bills and seen each other cry. We have been through a lot together, and it hurts me to think that all of this is worthless to him in the face of these feelings for HER.<P>Calla

calla30:<BR>YOU WROTE: "It's interesting to me that our reactions are so different." <BR>Get yourself over to the MB area where Dr. Harley writes articles about "Surviving An Affair" - it deals exactly with this issue! Men seem to become "obsessed" with their OW, according to Dr. Harley. WHile this seems ridiculous to us, that women can get over their affairs, and their H's cannot, apparently Dr. Harley is right. <P>Your H is deeply, hopelessly, in love with this OW. He can't help it. It's not you, and it's not something he can just walk away from. 4 months is getting close to the time when the feelings for her will begin to fade, more like 6+ months. You just have to hang in there. Continue to Plan A him, it sounds like you have a chance of "making it" if he is home, and open and honest with you. He is just still "addicted" to her.<P>Go now and read the Surviving An Affair stuff. It's fascinating reading and obviously very true. <P>Best of luck.<BR>Lupo

Calla,<P>I am sorry if my response upset you in any way. I am simply expressing what i feel and think. Sometimes i see so many BS who seems to be holding on to whats gone. Some of the cases I've read seems to be repairable but there are some that are quite obviously not. I think urs is far from that. Your H hasn't even had an affair, would you consider what he has now an EA? The OW didn't requite his love did she? Would you even consider her the OW? <P>I read ur most recent thread about wanting to contact the OW. I don't think its a good idea but if you really have to, be very careful. She might not like it and be upset about you confronting her about this as if it's her fault, and if ur H ever finds out, he will be very angry. He would feel you embarassed him in front of this woman and that's a major ego dent. I don't think she is the problem here, he is. I know it doesn't help if he can't talk about it either, I've uttered the words I don't know and i can't explain it so many times myself. But really we can't...<P>Once again i am sorry if i offended you. Perhaps you are right seeing her in the office everyday won't help. But if the woman is not changing would ur H be willing to chnage his? Maybe it's still soon let him calm down and for him to see how this is upsetting you. Good luck and i wish u wellp<BR> <P>

Calla<BR>The"why bother trying" is to be put in a drawer right now, and lock it please <P>Negative thinking does't help. Positive does.<BR>ANd believe, a lot of our spouses have forgotten the op as much as we did. I hardly think of her and I can be here talking about the whole thing without feeling hurt or anxious or any of the things that I felt 3 years ago.<P>Not every spouse will be going trough life yearning for this other person, actually not many do. <BR>Hey, if that was so, then everyone would be in trouble, what about any relationships prior to ours? <P>Personally I think that what your husband is feeling can't even be considered "love". I don't believe you can love someone you don't know. You can feel attracted to that person, but how can you love someone you know nothing about? Love needs contact, talking - a lot of talking - being able to show this person who you are - although I admit, at that stage showing only the positive stuff, of course - and being able to find out who the person is. Dreams, goals, things in common.. all that stuff.<P>This ressemble a lot teenagers that think they are in love with this music singer, or that movie star, or whatever. <BR>May I ask how old your husband is? And do you know how old she is?- just to make sure that I'm not getting the wrong impression.<P>I'm sorry, even when it comes to love I"m quite down to earth so I usually try to find the logic on everything.That love defies logic is not exactly a reality, there is always some reasoning into it. <P>I will still say give plan A a try. <BR>Make sure that when he's home things are pleasant and on the light side. <BR>Knowing him, you know what things interest him. THey might be something that interest you too, so this one will be easy: keep converstation on things that you know will have him talking, things that he feels strongly about. Enough to at least while the conversation is on nothing else is going trough his mind.<BR>If you're a talker, be the listener, ask pertinent questions, keep him focused on the subject.<BR>Avoid talking about what's happening - yes there is a time for it too, but make sure that it's not the main subject of the every conversation.<BR>Use humour if it works with him.<BR>BY the way, remember the beginning of your relationship. Where you would talk and tell each other what your dreams were, what would you like your life to be, the things you enjoyed? Time for trying it again. As times passes, people's goals , dreams, even themselves change. Get reacquainted.<P>Find things you like to do together, go for it. COmpromise on the ones you're not to excited about. But spend time together, recreational time, if possible.<P>Explain to him that you really think you can solve this together as a team, and that if he can't help right now, you'll do your best to start things going on your own. DOn't take away his power of choice though. "you have to do this or else" , might not work at this point.<P>Realistically, I"m not sure what he expects from this person. From what you wrote she made it clear that she has someone and is not interested. On the other hand I wonder if ( even without realising it ) she is sending the wrong signals. GOIng out for lunch doesn't seem like the right thing specially when both are in a relationship, unless it's a group lunch, with more people around and in a safer ground.<P>How difficult would it be for your h to get another job? Is it a possiblity? WOuld he even consider it?<P>Well I left a few ideas here. THere are more, but my daughter is sick and just woke up. I'll be here again later.<BR>Hugs to you<BR>Kat<P><P>------------------<BR>"Each and everyone of us is deserving of a gentle thougth, a kind word and the gift of understanding"

Hi Kat,<BR>to answer some of your questions...my H and I are both 30. His "OW" is 26. We have been together a total of 7 years; having dated for 3 before we married, and now married 4 years.<P>My H has indeed been looking for another job for the past several months, although I would say halfheartedly. He has been dissatisfied with his job for quite some time, and moving on to something else would be a benefit for him professionally as well as a help in getting away from HER.<P>I also agree on the mixed signals she is sending to him. I know that he has confessed his feelings to her several months ago. He said she was very shocked and had no idea he felt that way. For awhile she avoided him completely, but then seeing how depressed and unhapppy he was, she would sometimes invite him to lunch (just the two of them) presumably because she felt "guilty" about how bad he was feeling, and she felt somehow responsible. But you're right, if it's true that she's happy with her boyfriend (and even if she's not!) (my H says they are planning marriage), she should NOT be spending this kind of alone time with my H!<P>Another possibility that has occured to me is that maybe my H has not been completely honest about the full extent of their relationship. Maybe there's more to it than he's admitted. I've wondered if maybe she really is attracted to him and has just been enjoying flirting with him with no intention of leaving her boyfriend. However, it would seem that if she DID return his feelings, he'd already be out the door and they would be together. So I tend to believe him.<P>I plan to do what you say and be as pleasant as possible when he's around. In fact, last evening we hopped on our mountain bikes and went for a long ride together while his sister watched our little boy. It was nice. I wondered to myself if the "OW" likes biking. Until this past year, we enjoyed a lot of recreational activities together and were each other's first choice of companion. We both like hiking, photography, concerts...I could go on. But, we have fallen out of the habit of making time for each other and these activities, and my H's recent depression and lack of enthusiasm for anything has been a big part of that.<P>He's at work right now (busy time at his company) and I wonder if she's there, too. I've already called twice to see how late he expects to be there. I realize I don't want to make a pathetic nuisance of myself, but I feel so insecure knowing she's around him so much.<P>Hope your daughter's feeling better!<P>Thanks...<P>Calla

Other replies...<P>thanks, lupolady for your suggestions. I am reading SAA and exloring the MB website, and trying to encourage my H to do the same.<P>painforever, I'm not "offended" by your words, just really discouraged, I guess is the better way to put it. I can make a long list of rational and logical reasons why my H and I belong together (we can complete each other's sentences, we like the same kinds of music, we have been though a lot together, etc,) I could go on and on but the point is, none of our 7-year history can compete with his fantasy, because his fantasy with her is still unknown. So in his head, he has created the most spectacularly perfect relationship, which he probably desires even more since he feels he'll never get it.<P>As for her being the "OW" even though they haven't had a physical, sexual affair..there's no doubt it's still an affair, but it's an emotional one. Another person on this forum put it this way: "Any relationship with a person of the opposite sex that detracts from your feelings for your mate and reduces the quality of your marriage is an AFFAIR." Period.<P>so don't worry about having offended me...I'm just trying to make sense of my H's feeligns for this woman, and hearing another guys' views on this subject is helpful even if it hurts a little. So keep talkin' to me...<P>calla

Hi Calla,<BR>Just read through your post and replies.<P>My H is in e/a, p/a affiar now for 18 months. Left me and our chilren 2x. Filed for d. 2 times and stopped it 2x. I truly believe woman is behind it. Now a hearing is June 15, 8 days after our 21st wedding annivesary. Sad, sad, sad.<P>So much to this:<BR>1. both abuse alcohol<BR>2. ow - 2 dwi convictions in Tx<BR>3. ow. - married/div 3x<BR>4. met in a bar.<BR>5. auto accident after affair began in 1/00; both drunk<BR>6. he got off dwi/charged with wreckless driving<BR>7. she filed bodily injury aga. our ins. policy and she got<BR> $25,000 and they (Bonnie and Cylde) were off.<BR>8. 12 days after he left the second time, he amended our <BR> 96 and 97 fed/state returns (someone else (?) signed my name.)<BR>9. When amended refund checks came, he forged my name and used money for himself and situation.<BR>10. He defied a child support court order for six months until they threatened contempt and loss of his driver's license. So, for many months, he received full check to take care of himself and ow, and I got no money for our children.<BR>11. When garnishment finally took effect, he filed the 3rd time and hearing is June 15. <P>I expect the worst.<P>I have read everybook I could find about affairs. I have been on forums. My husband is a functional alcoholic in denial. Unless the change comes from within himself, there is absolutely NOTHING I CAN DO TO BRING HIM BACK.<P>I have tried everything. It is hopeless unless one day he realizes (his head defrosts/ out of fog) that ow wasn't worth it,then the divorce is inevitable. He is doing this, not I. I did not ask for any of this. But I was certainly handed a pile of manure and I have to dig myself out of it, and still try to smell clean--which I am.<P>IF the ow's annoyances ever become greater than what she now provides (whatever that is?), then, perhaps, he will come to his senses. But, it appears, sadly for me and my children, that he will become her fourth husband..and then will find out that the grass is not greener--and the water is dirtier.<P>You can't figure it out. You can't reason with them.<BR>I have finally hit the brick wall--it is not easy to admit that there is nothing I can do to bring him back and make him give up the affair. <P>Statistics state taht most affairs die a natural death--average time is about 2 years. This one is 18 months and divorce is next week. <P>I have no faith in statistics or anything.<P>I hope your situation is more hopeful than mine. I feel your pain.<BR>My prayers are with you. elo

Calla,<P>I wouldn't dispair too much. My guess is that she is a form of escapism for him. Now, that it is out in the open things will begin to change. Now let me ask you a question. What needs do you think she was meeting in his mind that you were not?<P>I am asking about the "fantasy" of her, not the reality. It seems to me that you both need more talks as you had. You did a great job by not reacting to what he was telling you. He will be able to open up to you more as this goes on. I also would suspect that some of this is revisionist histroy, probably much like you probably felt during your affair.<P>There was another lady who used to post alot here whose H had a similar type of "affair" with a woman at work. It was one-sided and was mostly him trying to escape his depression and the state of the marriage. I wish I could remember her name right now. I am sure it will come to me and I will post you.<P>My recommendation is to give it time, keep talking, and realize that the odds are very high that you will not only be able to compete with her, but will by the one he choses. All the emotions of this situation are very complex. So give it time, let him talk, and do your best to show him you love him. <P>God Bless,<P>JL

Hi Calla,<P>I'm not sure exactly what's going on with your H...you probably aren't either! Depression can have a lot of causes, living in a fantasy world certainly doesn't help.<P>I think you have to assume that while your recreational time with him was decreasing and she was having lunch with him she had the opportunity to meet ENs that you didn't. Even though I think you've said that he says you were a great wife, this is common for a spouse in withdrawal. They don't want their BS to meet their ENs and aren't very forthcoming about them. This may take some thinking and trial and error on your part. I'm not saying it's your fault--it may be more his for not communicating with you, but the end result was his infatuation with the OW instead of you.<P>I don't have the answer for his depression, but having ENs met by their spouse will do wonders for a person. That's about all I have to say tonight, I just spent a couple of hours putting a new power supply in my computer after a couple of hours helping my wife with her resume, so I'm tired. The PC works great, though .<P>I'll check back sometime tomorrow. Keep reading the MB materials and posting.<P>Steve

JL,<BR>I did ask my H when we talked about this "OW" what she did for him or what kind of needs she met. He couldn't really answer this question for me in any kind of concrete way. All he could say is how "drawn" he is to her. So I'm still in the dark about that. One thing I'm learning the hard way is that I can't make my H talk to me when he doesn't want to. I always want to talk through problems and issues "on the spot" and his style is exactly the opposite, he usually wants to be left alone to think things through by himself. I wind up following him around the house trying to get him to talk and he just gets more and more angry at me. I realize this is pushing him away, but it is SO hard for me to not want to "fix" things. <P>StillHers,<BR>Yes, identifying his ENs would be a big help to me at this point. My H is so withdrawn that I don't think it's possible at this point for him to say "I need xxx from you." I DO know one of his big ENs is admiration, so I am trying to compliment him on things, without making it obvious or sounding fake or hokey.<P>We had what began as a really nice morning together today, and ended horribly. I'm going to write a new post about that. I hope both of you will read it.<P>You guys are helping me so much. It's really the only encouragement I have right now...thanks.<P>Calla<P>

HEllo Calla HEre's one I can really identify with you: I also like to talk about things right there and then, and my h is also like he never wants to talk about them, specially if they're not to pleasant.<P>That was one of the things we worked on during recovery. ANd it is working. Not that suddenly he turned into someone like me open to talk right away, but at least he's more open to talk and feels more at ease even if thngs are not just fun and ligh talk.<BR>The possibility that he isn't being completely honest with the way things are also crossed my mind. But from what you wrote it doesn't seem the case, although I"m sure he might be keeping a small part for himself - which would be only normal.<BR>IN any case, I think you already found out one of the important things: pushing a conversation that he is not ready to, will not help. MIght make him anxious, uncomfortable, and even angry at this point. ANd believe me, that will not help you one bit.<BR>As for emotional needs, yes, it is important for youto find what they are even if you think you do.<BR>AS I said earlier in this thread ( I think ) people do change and our needs might change as well sometimes.AT least in priority order. SO it's important to find out what his are now. At this moment.Not at the beginning of the relationship or even last year.<BR>A small problem youmight encounter there is that he won't be able to tell you what they are. He might not want to go trough the EN questionaire, and he might have trouble figuring out himself what they are.<BR>Good thing you are her ewith us... because that will give you something to work with.<BR>Read the emotional needs part on this site. Find what each of themost common needs are and see if you can find where your husband fits. Try some out. Does he seem to feel a bit more positive if you provide affection, or admiration? Recreational, or financial? Check for yourself and see which one's work better.<P>Although I understand how anxious you might feel when he is at work, try to be as calm as possible. Avoid extra contact while he's at work unless you have a valid reason to do so ( I was able to find a few LOL ) .<BR> EVen if you don't feel all that confident show him that you are. That you have no doubts in your mind that he'll be able to work things out the right way. SOmetimes just positive reinforcement does wonders <BR>And this is it for now. I have a school concert today and still have students that mess up on the dance I"m stressed up to the limit and with my daughter not getting any better is not helping.<BR>But I"m sure I"ll be feeling better tomorrow. COme to thing of it, I"m pretty sure I"ll feel much better as soon as the concert is over LOL<BR>Hugs<BR>Kat<P><P>------------------<BR>"Each and everyone of us is deserving of a gentle thougth, a kind word and the gift of understanding"

Hi Calla--<P>I have not had time to read all your prior posts, and I am off on a biz trip shortly, so cannot right now. Did want you respond to you b4 I left tho. <P>From what I have read, yes, your H sounds a lot like mine. My best advice is to be patient and supportive. B4 I found out that he was inlove with someone else, I thought he was "just" depressed, or going thru some MLC stuff, or something...did not know what, but knew he was miserable and stressed. I told him that I cared about him, and wanted to help him & support him. When I found out he was inlove with someone else, I did not rescind my offer of support, but tried to understand what he was going through.<P>The main things I could do to help were to be empathetic. I did not tell him he was wrong, crazy, etc. I realised that he did have very strong feelings for her, and simply asked him to give our relationship time. Like your H, he did not want sex for several months. I told him that I was here & willing, but did not pressure him (much, anyway). He could not tell me he loved me, and I told him that was OK, but that I did want to be able to tell him I cared about him, and that he did not need to respond.<P>We did hug and ask each other "how are you doing today" often. Sometimes he would admit that was having a hard day, and talk a bit. Other times he would not. I have to say that I never felt that the "pyschic bond" he felt was real, but I did not try to argue him out of it. Whether pschic or not, he felt it and that is what was real. <P>I tried hard to keep stresses at home down, he was in no place mentally or emotionally to deal with added stress. I did little things to let him know I cared, like fixing his favorite dinner, etc. Sometimes he just needed to be alone, and I tried to respect that.<P>There were times I was angry, hurt, etc. I tried hard to be honest without being guilty of angry outbursts or disrespectful judgements, etc. This required an outlet, so I yelled in my car at times, and I vented here a lot. But, I tried to maintain the idea that he was going thru a very painful loss, and that he needed my support. That idea (which was 100% true) made it easier to keep myself on track.<P>So, all I can say is that for whatever reason, your H felt an enormous lack in his life. In my H's case, some of it was in the marriage, and some in other areas of his life. This woman he is obsessed with seems right now to him to be the answer. She is not the problem at all (heck, in my H's case, the woman was a good person who told him to go home and work on his marriage). He needs to heal some. Your marriage needs to be a source of love and support for him while he heals. You probably cannot do a lot right now on the falling back inlove part, as the healing has to happen first. Right now, you are doing things (I hope, anyway) that should add to his "lovebank", but seeing little response. But, once he gets over his loss of her (or what the idea of her means to him) that will change. Don't get discouraged that it takes time, you are laying a foundation even tho you can't see much of it. Foundations do not "show", but they are very needed.<P>I do hope one of them will find another job soon. I know that it was very hard for healing to occur for my H as long as they occasionally bumped into each other at work. <P>Good luck, and let me know if you have any questions...I'll be back later this week.<P>Kathi<BR><p>[This message has been edited by kam6318 (edited June 12, 2001).]

Calla30,<P>‘I did ask my H when we talked about this "OW" what she did for him or what kind of needs she met. He couldn't really answer this question for me in any kind of concrete way. All he could say is how "drawn" he is to her.”<P>I’ve been thinking about what you’ve said here. As you know it can be very hard to figure out someone else’s EN’s. A couple of things come to mind. In one of his books Dr. Harley says that left to their own devises, a person will usually reflect their own EN’s in the way they show love to another person. For example, if a person’s main emotional need if affection, then they will shower their spouse with affection. In this manner the give what they themselves need. I hope this makes sense to you. What I am learning in life is to always look very closely at a person’s behavior. It speaks louder then any words. Words can always be used in an attempt to mask behavior, but behavior never lies.<P>So in that light I’ve been trying to evaluate your husband’s situation. What comes to mind is that he has put this woman on a pedestal, he seems to admire her as much as he “loves” her. Note that I put “love” in quotes because I do not think he loves her at all. She has become the unattainable perfect woman. No real woman can live up to this fantasy. He also seems to shower her with affection and romance as much as she will let him (the art, photos, conversation). My bet is that admiration and affection are really high on your husband’s emotional needs list. Since you are much closer to this situation you may be able to derive more of his needs in this manner.<P>You say that your husband’s infatuation with this woman started about 2 years ago. So what happened two years ago in either your H’s life or your relationship? Something happened, something changed. I’m trying to recall here.. you say that you have a toddler. He seems to have really mixed feelings about this…. Loves your son but hates what’s happened to his life. My bet is that your husband feels that once you got pregnant he fell of the primary place in your life. That you no longer adore and admire him. That your son is now your primary focus and not he.<P>If my hunches are right, then if you started to just fill those needs without putting any demands on your H to reciprocate, you may see a turn around in him. At least that’s what Dr. Harley sees to say.<P>These are just gut feelings from what you have said. How do they fit to you.<P>Z<P><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

zorweb,<BR>WOW....I mean, "WOW." I just read your reply at my other thread as well as what you've written here...and the picture is coming together.<P>Yes, it's absolutely true that my H needs and wants lots of admiration. He started getting that even as a child, when his artistic talent became evident. His mother has whole photo albums filled to bursting with ribbons and recognitions for his work while he was growing up. The thing is, I don't know if he's even aware that he has such a need for recognition. And if he IS aware, he's embarrased to admit it.<P>Every time I've asked him if he resents our son, or having become a parent, he's always emphatically said 'NO.' But there again, I think you hit the nail on the head. It's not that he resents our son per se, but the fact that the child is the center of our lives and takes so much of my attention. It all makes sense!!! And maybe that's a big part of the reason he says he doesn't want any more kids. When we discussed children, we always figured we'd have two or three...and once we had one he is now emphatic about NO MORE. Maybe he wouldn't feel that way if his needs were being met..!<P>The last point that you are right about is the studio. He needs dedicated space to spread out and really work. We have a spare bedroom (now HIS room) and he has been doing some painting there. It's got great light and a fantastic view, but the room is pretty small. So my suggestion is that we turn our 2-car garage into a studio, or add onto the back of the garage to create one. Even if we had to do a small home improvment loan, it would be well worth the cost to see my H happy and fulfilled again!<P>And I also think you're right about what this woman at work represents to him. Finding the drawings he made of her was especially painful for me because for the first couple years of H and I's relationship, he was ALWAYS making me pose for him, and now he has books filled with sketches and pastels and charcoals of me. It became less frequent over the years, but...some of my favorite ones are those he did when I was pregnant and nursing. But then...it all stopped! And your timing was correct...his "infatuation" with the OW sould have began when our son was about six months old, when I was in full nursing-mother mode and utterly devoted to that baby. <P>Zorweb, are you a psychologist??? And if not, have you missed your calling in life??<P>with MUCH gratitude for your sharp insight (and you've never even met either of us!!!),<P>calla

Calla,<P>Nope I'm not a psychologist, just a student of human nature. Actually I'm a software engineer by profession.<P>Do you think MB would pay me so I can set home full time and answer these posts? LOL... What a dream job that would be. No more fighting with bugets, schedules, and engineers to get products out the door!!!! Except I think I'd have some pretty steep competition on this forum. And I'd have to learn to spell... well spell checker could save me there. (smiling over here) <P>I was afraid I'd gone way off the deep end here. This forum has been such a great help to me and my husband. So I'm glad for whatever I can give back.<P>Z<P><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

katb,<BR>I'm working hard to identify my H's EN's, and I am making some progress. I know I have to watch it as far as calling him at work, etc. Looking pathetic in his eyes is not going to win me any points. He is drawn to confidence in people, and that's what I need to display as much as possible. However, I did call him at work and tell him I was sorry for trying to make him talk to me when he wasn't ready, and that I now recognize I need to respect his need for space and wait until he is ready to talk. He seemed quite surprised by my comments...he said, "Who did you call for advice?"<P>********************<P>kam 6318,<BR>thanks so much for telling your story, there are certainly a lot of similarities!! I am trying to conduct myself like you did--being empathetic, understanding his loss, and his need to grieve and get over it. But, it's hard sometimes to fight back the anger when I feel like this crazy obession has caused SO many problems in our marriage...but I digress.<P>I will continue down that path toward being the most understanding and uncritical wife I can be. If you can do it...so can I!!! And I also believe you were right about what you wrote in the "Happy Recovered Couples" thread. There is more than one "perfect" mate out there for all of us. We are so conditioned by romantic notions in literature and movies...we think of our "One true love" and "Mr. Right." Part of the reality of marriage is knowing that you may meet and get to know other people who may have made a good mate for you, and dealing appropriately with the feelings. It's much easier to do that when you have a solid and close relatoinship with your spouse. That's the point I'd like to get back to.<P>thanks for your insight, please let me know if you think of anything else that might help my situation.<P>calla