A quick refresher, I'm 3 1/2 monhths into seperation, 3 weeks from d-day and I continue to get many lies and find out information which is unreal. I realize this is not my wife, not the woman I married. But what if she dosn't come back? I'm thinking she has a multiple personality disorder or something and if so, then what? I'm really thinking about the marraige and, he can have her. I know she will come back in a year or so, nut right now I don't want her. <P> Again, is this a "normal" feeling?<P>JK

jk,<P>Your feeling are completely normal...I was thinking the same thing about my own situation. In fact, I go back and forth all the time.<P>dd

DD,<P>I have lost soooo much respect for her, I just don't want her, I don't want to talk to her or see her. I feel like 4 weeks into MB, I'm ready for plan B.<BR>JK<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dumbdumb:<BR><B>jk,<P>Your feeling are completely normal...I was thinking the same thing about my own situation. In fact, I go back and forth all the time.<P>dd</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

JK,<P>It is normal. I struggle with it all the time. The person you see now is not someone that you want. But, if it were to be the person that you used to know, would you then want her? I always take a quick inventory and ask myself if I'd want her should she suddenly become remorceful and revert back to the way she used to be.<P>This helps me continue. But it does go back and forth. So please understand that you are reacting completely normal under the circumstances. We don't call this the roller coaster for no reason.<P>It is not even a multiple personality disorder. It is an affair. The feelings of an affair are obviously unreal, fantasy, utterly crazy, but most importantly, almost not understandable. You just have to accept that your spouse (or apparently anyone) can be taken over by the aliens. Believe me, my wife is so opposite of what she was, it is unbelievable.<P>I'll digress. She hated bars, was against a certain religion, once dated a person of a certain background and it did not work, did not like certain music, did not want the kids in daycare, believed that you work on your marriage no matter what, and stay together for the kids, said I was a wonderful husband, said she was happy, worried that I'd someday leave her. I could go on and on. All the stuff she used to believe in is now gone away. She reverted completely.<P>Do I think this is her? Can't be...how can someone change so much. I've read what she said to OM, and it is crazy. Obviously someone that is not living in the real world.<P>So, in summary, you are just reacting normal.<P>Remember that you are fresh off the discovery that this separation was not just about you and her. That phase is very difficult. You are enduring what I'd call the most difficult phase of this messy situation. I went through it. Wasn't until about 2 months of separation that I finally clued in to the fact that my wife was starting to become involved with this scumbag BEFORE our separation.<P>So, think about what you'd feel like IF she suddenly came to her senses, and realized that this new life was a fantasy world, not real, and she wanted you back. Because the bottom line is you need to be there for her when she crashes. If you are, then you stand the most chance of being together and becoming a success story.<P>Even with hearing some validation of your feelings now, it will continue to be very difficult. The lies are hard to take. I still endure them.<P>Anyway, we're her for you, and understand. Take care.<P>

Please re-read the Plan A/B. I believe that if you following their purpose, that you should be in Plan B if your spouse will not agree to no contact with the OP and work on your marriage.<P>Good Luck<BR>Z<P><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Just amazing isn't it? You guys could be writing about my ex. It's just a total shock. Incredible to see someone do an about face, isn't it?<P>Here's the question though, can that person that she once was, ever return? Can she ever go back to what she was? I'll never look at her the same again. Yeah, I would want that old person back but when does it get too far along that path to go back?<P>Anyway, if and when she ever does, JK, let me know. All the best.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JK:<BR><B>A quick refresher, I'm 3 1/2 monhths into seperation, 3 weeks from d-day and I continue to get many lies and find out information which is unreal. I realize this is not my wife, not the woman I married. But what if she dosn't come back? I'm thinking she has a multiple personality disorder or something and if so, then what? I'm really thinking about the marraige and, he can have her. I know she will come back in a year or so, nut right now I don't want her. <P> Again, is this a "normal" feeling?<P>JK</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

I also feel the same way as you, I still love my ws but don't think I want her back. I can't understand why everything she said and did was necessary for her. Don't think I could be with her ever again. <P>

What you are feeling is normal...and the product of pain, shock and rage. "How can I ever love THIS person?" <P>In a sense, at this point in our lives, during such a trauma, we are no more capable of making a life-altering decision than our spouses are. Time and healing are our best friends, whether or not our marriage survives.<P>After twelve years together, Robert became someone that I didnt recognize. The cruelty he demonstrated, the lack of compassion for even our daughter. Know what? I wasn't the only one he betrayed. The greatest betrayal was to himself and everything he had ever believed in and stood for and, once his actions began to be clear to him, that was a terribly bitter pill to swallow for him. I chose to believe then and, now that this is past, I truly believe that it was a great deal of pain that caused my husband to lose himself so. A reasonable person cannot assume that simple selfishness suddenly "appears" in a wonderful person's life and causes them to completely change their personalities, their behaviors, their values, and turn their backs on all they've ever believed in, worked for, stood for. I do remember that, shortly after d-day, before he moved out, I found Robert distraught on our back deck....."I'm all the men I've ever hated and I don't deserve to live." It wasn't a line, he was in terrible pain. He still continued the affair and he still left us, but, though he presented a different face to me most of the time, I found out from others it was terrible for him as well. This does not excuse the decision, it was wrong. But over the years, I've come to understand what I could and find compassion for what I couldn't.<P>Once he came home, recovery began with so much needed healing, as much or more for him as for me. The remnants of the man that had been for a year or so there hung on for a while. The shock of the details of his behavior was difficult for him. He reacted in anger - directed at himself and at me. I understood that guilt is so strong, anger was his way of coping. So many things he didn't even remember, others he didn't want to and he wanted to hear about NOTHING. Over the months, things would return to his mind and we'd face a new battle as he coped with it.<P>Today, my husband is back and, if possible, is a better man than before and before he was wonderful. We have both grown from this experience and our union has not only survived it but transcended to a new level. We hardly ever speak of the affair, I hardly ever think of it 'cept when I'm here. We can talk about anything and we guard this blessing of a second chance with all that we have. No, I will not say that the affair was good for us. It was a horrible miserable and unfair experience and there's no other way to look at it. But the lessons we took from this experience WERE the best things to happen to our marriage. There were other ways to learn these things, but, like most, we didn't until we were faced with the tragedy.<P>I, too, have said that I don't think I could love him, I can never trust him, I could never make love with him again.....and on and on. From WAYYYYYY on this side of the ride, let me tell you this now:<P>I do love him, with all my heart and soul.<BR>I do trust him. I no longer snoop or worry and we achieved that while he worked with PT.<BR>I do respect him, more than ever. He is the wonderful man I have always believed he was and he has shown such courage in returning to our marriage and working on it. The easy thing would have been to keep running and not face us again. He is more than worthy of my respect.<BR>We share beautiful intimacy and the thought of him being with another woman never ever enters my mind.<BR>We laugh and love and hold each other and this love we have more dear than ever before. I am a better wife. He is a better husband. We are both better people. And we understand and nurture this relationship called marriage like we never did before.<P>I am so thankful that I didn't follow my anger and give up on myself, my husband and my marriage. Myself? Yup. 'Cause had I given up THEN (not that there aren't times to walk away) I would have been saying that I didn't believe I was capable of growing, changing, forgiving and staying the course when it was as tough as it could be. I'm a bit too stubborn for that.<P>Zorweb, not exactly. Even the Harley's have advised many of us in seperation to continue Plan A. Plan B is necessary but only follows a good strong Plan A. Many of us never go to Plan B. It depends on the circumstance and counselling with the Harley's seems to be the best way to make that call.<P>Sorry, JK, I'm long-winded. I remember where you are and I know your pain. Just do me a favor, don't make decisions (unless you have to) that will change the rest of your life and the lives of others while in this state. You're not ready yet. Trust me. The decision may be the same later, but at least it will be made with a clear head. <P>Hang in there, guys.<P>Lori

lostva, Wow!<P>Last night I spoke with one of my best friends wives, who is incredably perceptive. She said she had noticed W changing. Talking, dressing differrently etc. Thnks this will pass but old W may or may not return. Suggest I focus on me, and be the best person I can be. If she does return, I amy or may not be here for her. Thisis where my questioning comes from, do I want to be here? <BR>A story like your provides me with insperation. How long did it take fro him to come out of the fog? ?<P>I know I'm early in the game, but I need a new attitude about life. THis is why I want to move on,I don't want to mope around, I miss my smiley face, my positive attitude.<P><BR>JK<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lostva:<BR><B>What you are feeling is normal...and the product of pain, shock and rage. "How can I ever love THIS person?" <P>In a sense, at this point in our lives, during such a trauma, we are no more capable of making a life-altering decision than our spouses are. Time and healing are our best friends, whether or not our marriage survives.<P>After twelve years together, Robert became someone that I didnt recognize. The cruelty he demonstrated, the lack of compassion for even our daughter. Know what? I wasn't the only one he betrayed. The greatest betrayal was to himself and everything he had ever believed in and stood for and, once his actions began to be clear to him, that was a terribly bitter pill to swallow for him. I chose to believe then and, now that this is past, I truly believe that it was a great deal of pain that caused my husband to lose himself so. A reasonable person cannot assume that simple selfishness suddenly "appears" in a wonderful person's life and causes them to completely change their personalities, their behaviors, their values, and turn their backs on all they've ever believed in, worked for, stood for. I do remember that, shortly after d-day, before he moved out, I found Robert distraught on our back deck....."I'm all the men I've ever hated and I don't deserve to live." It wasn't a line, he was in terrible pain. He still continued the affair and he still left us, but, though he presented a different face to me most of the time, I found out from others it was terrible for him as well. This does not excuse the decision, it was wrong. But over the years, I've come to understand what I could and find compassion for what I couldn't.<P>Once he came home, recovery began with so much needed healing, as much or more for him as for me. The remnants of the man that had been for a year or so there hung on for a while. The shock of the details of his behavior was difficult for him. He reacted in anger - directed at himself and at me. I understood that guilt is so strong, anger was his way of coping. So many things he didn't even remember, others he didn't want to and he wanted to hear about NOTHING. Over the months, things would return to his mind and we'd face a new battle as he coped with it.<P>Today, my husband is back and, if possible, is a better man than before and before he was wonderful. We have both grown from this experience and our union has not only survived it but transcended to a new level. We hardly ever speak of the affair, I hardly ever think of it 'cept when I'm here. We can talk about anything and we guard this blessing of a second chance with all that we have. No, I will not say that the affair was good for us. It was a horrible miserable and unfair experience and there's no other way to look at it. But the lessons we took from this experience WERE the best things to happen to our marriage. There were other ways to learn these things, but, like most, we didn't until we were faced with the tragedy.<P>I, too, have said that I don't think I could love him, I can never trust him, I could never make love with him again.....and on and on. From WAYYYYYY on this side of the ride, let me tell you this now:<P>I do love him, with all my heart and soul.<BR>I do trust him. I no longer snoop or worry and we achieved that while he worked with PT.<BR>I do respect him, more than ever. He is the wonderful man I have always believed he was and he has shown such courage in returning to our marriage and working on it. The easy thing would have been to keep running and not face us again. He is more than worthy of my respect.<BR>We share beautiful intimacy and the thought of him being with another woman never ever enters my mind.<BR>We laugh and love and hold each other and this love we have more dear than ever before. I am a better wife. He is a better husband. We are both better people. And we understand and nurture this relationship called marriage like we never did before.<P>I am so thankful that I didn't follow my anger and give up on myself, my husband and my marriage. Myself? Yup. 'Cause had I given up THEN (not that there aren't times to walk away) I would have been saying that I didn't believe I was capable of growing, changing, forgiving and staying the course when it was as tough as it could be. I'm a bit too stubborn for that.<P>Zorweb, not exactly. Even the Harley's have advised many of us in seperation to continue Plan A. Plan B is necessary but only follows a good strong Plan A. Many of us never go to Plan B. It depends on the circumstance and counselling with the Harley's seems to be the best way to make that call.<P>Sorry, JK, I'm long-winded. I remember where you are and I know your pain. Just do me a favor, don't make decisions (unless you have to) that will change the rest of your life and the lives of others while in this state. You're not ready yet. Trust me. The decision may be the same later, but at least it will be made with a clear head. <P>Hang in there, guys.<P>Lori</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Lori,<P>Thanks for the comment about Plan A/B. What would have been the Plan A phase for my H and I lasted for maybe 1-2 weeks. But - it was before we found the MB information. So I get a little confused at all of the very drawn out Plan A's I see on this website. I guess if one looks at the Pland A/B literature on this website it is fairly strickt. But I am sure that each story is different and the Harleys certainly have the experience in making the call. <P>Again, Thanks<BR>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

I honestly don't think you have to decide now.<P>What you DO have to do is what you're doing....<P>Look back at your marriage, heck, at you and your life and see what you can do to make yourself the person you want to be. My favorite saying from one of the thousands of books I read during this mess goes something like this: "I don't believe that people fundamentally change. I do believe that if we reach deep down inside ourselves, we'll find that we're capable of much more than we ever dreamed." And the second is my favorite Dr. Philism: Time heals nothing, it's what we DO with the time that heals.<P>I found that to be true of me and of Robert. I believe it's true of everyone. I'm still digging! <P>Take time to heal, be good to yourself.<P>You will notice, all of a sudden one day that you went almost an hour and didn't think of this mess. Then a little more than that. And, oh my stars, did I just LAUGH?!! <P>Robert left me and moved in with PT. He was gone for 7 months. I just knew he was never coming home. I made a couple of decisions, once the rawness wore off a little: I would get up every morning and decide whether or not I loved the man I KNEW HIM TO BE INSIDE (notice, I did NOT say the one he was then). If the answer was yes, then I decided that I would work on the marriage should he return that very day. That's it. Rather than set a time-limit which I did't have the forsight to set, I just took it day by day. If for a number of days in a row, I decided the answer was no, I really didn't want my marriage, I would have had to regroup. It never was. The second decision was that I was going to find joy in my life. Not that the pain wasn't there, it was...but Iknew there was much joy as well...that was part of my healing. Eventually, the third decision was to forgive him. And I did, completely and absolutely long before he ever asked to talk about restoring our marriage, I forgave him. 'Cause forgiveness is a gift you give to someone you love, like honor, whether or not they deserve it. And forgiving someone else is a gift you give to yourself because it sets you free! And I forgave him when I still believed (and so did he) that he was going to spend his life with PT.<P>This stuff sets you back, no doubt about it. But your smiley face is still there and waiting to come out. Believe it or not, it has nothing to do with whether or not you want your wife back, but everything to do with your taking YOURSELF back. Once you do, you let the anger become the pain it was born from, grieve the loss of what once was, you'll be ready to accept what will be - with or without your wife. And, what I learned, even before Robert came home, is what will be has so very much promise and potential for joy.<P>Give yourself time. Give yourself healing. Give yourself credit for what you've made it through so far. You'll be ok and you WILL smile again! I did - long before my marriage was restored.<P>Love and prayers,<P>Lori<p>[This message has been edited by lostva (edited June 11, 2001).]

So, I've come to the conclusion that when I feel like this, I need to vent here, write in my journal and keep my chin up, excerise and talk to my suppport group. I'll Continue Plan A and act "as if" everything is ok. <P>Right now I'll back off of any conversation with her and gradually work my way back in to friendship. Ifell as if it truly is acting as my true feelings are not and cannot be expressed.<P>JK

JK,<P>Vent away! Your W does not seem to be your W anymore because her life has been touched by a third party outside of the marriage - the OM. <P>I strongly believe (due to my own personal experiences) that each person who intimately touches our lives leaves an imprint - they change us, be it for the better or for the worse. They instill in us new and different values and attitudes, and open us up to new possibilities. In a friendship situation or in the case of a mentor at work or college, this can be a positive; it can even be a positive when a young single is out in the dating world. However, we all married our H's and W's because they seemed to espouse a certain set of ideas and values. Along comes a third party, and those values are skewed, changed. Sometimes irrevocably. I live with my H knowing that he has changed because of his relationship with the XOW. She left an impression on him that can never be erased. She will always - *always* - be a very intimate part of him until the day he dies. It's like living with a third party in the house. A ghost, if you will.<P>JK, have you read Harley's "Surviving an Affair?" Harley advises that during the withdrawal period, sometimes a couple just need to avoid each other and keep things "light" until the initial shock of the EMR has passed. If you haven't read this book, please do so - it will really open your eyes.<P>((hugs))<P>belld

Lori - thankyou, thankyou, thankyou - you have expressed what I am feeling about the situation so well - except that like JK, I'm also still well on the rollercoaster and just last night I was wondering if I really wanted my WH back. I'm printing your posts out to keep!<P>JK - Yes it's perfectly normal, I don't know if this will help, but it helps me:<P>I have spiritual beliefs, not traditional ones - more a mish-mash of what feels right for me. I do believe however, that our souls live many lives, and each life here on earth is because our souls have chosen to experience certain things, in order to grow and learn and become wiser. I do believe, therefore, that my husbands affair was 'meant to happen'. There's a reason for this, which will become clear in time. Maybe HE needs to grow and learn from it, maybe the OW does, maybe I do, maybe ALL of us do. I don't know what the end result will be - he may come back, he may not. But I DO know, absolutely and without a doubt, that I am learning from this experience - and some very valuable lessons too. I am no longer frightened of being alone, living alone. I am no longer scared to just be 'me' (the real me, rather than the facade I've put on all these years). I know that I am capable of forgiveness, peace, hope and grace in the face of adversity. I know that I can be strong and have courage. Whatever happens with my marriage, it has been worth going through this experience for my own benefit! Like Lori said, I am a better person for it - and I believe that my husband will be too, he has hard lessons to learn as well. Yes, I do still love the 'real Rod', the Rod that I know is still in there somewhere. Sometimes I get confused with the 'alien Rod' who is so cold and cruel and heartless - but I'm beginning to be able to separate the two, and concentrate on loving the real version. I can ignore the alien most of the time.<P>All the best, Paint.

Belldandy and Paint,<P>I strongly agree with both of you.<P>Bell, I have not yet thougth of you rquote: <BR>"I strongly believe (due to my own personal experiences) that each person who intimately touches our lives leaves an imprint - they change us, be it for the better or for the worse. They instill in us new and different values and attitudes, and open us up to new possibilities. In a friendship situation or in the case of a mentor at work or college, this can be a positive; it can even be a positive when a young single is out in the dating world." But I beleive it is true.<P>Paint: I have often thought of and discussed you exact comments: <P>"I do believe however, that our souls live many lives, and each life here on earth is because our souls have chosen to experience certain things, in order to grow and learn and become wiser. I do believe, therefore, that my husbands affair was 'meant to happen'. There's a reason for this, which will become clear in time. Maybe HE needs to grow and learn from it, maybe the OW does, maybe I do, maybe ALL of us do. I don't know what the end result will be - he may come back, he may not. But I DO know, absolutely and without a doubt, that I am learning from this experience - and some very valuable lessons too." <P>In fact althought I am a skeptic I inadverantly met a physic at a bar (she was not working) but got her to do a reading. Not only did she pick up that I was trying to trip her up, she said my W and I have to go throught this to have a happy marraige. She will return, she is really mad and hurting at me about something (I know what), but she will get this out of her system and come home. <P>So again, I believe everything happens for a reason, and while I beleive we have some control, Plan A and B, we must look at this as a learning experience. <P>Meanwhile I am still the skeptic, but will continue with Plan A.<P>Lots of Hugs.<P>JK<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Paintbox:<BR><B>Lori - thankyou, thankyou, thankyou - you have expressed what I am feeling about the situation so well - except that like JK, I'm also still well on the rollercoaster and just last night I was wondering if I really wanted my WH back. I'm printing your posts out to keep!<P>JK - Yes it's perfectly normal, I don't know if this will help, but it helps me:<P>I have spiritual beliefs, not traditional ones - more a mish-mash of what feels right for me. I do believe however, that our souls live many lives, and each life here on earth is because our souls have chosen to experience certain things, in order to grow and learn and become wiser. I do believe, therefore, that my husbands affair was 'meant to happen'. There's a reason for this, which will become clear in time. Maybe HE needs to grow and learn from it, maybe the OW does, maybe I do, maybe ALL of us do. I don't know what the end result will be - he may come back, he may not. But I DO know, absolutely and without a doubt, that I am learning from this experience - and some very valuable lessons too. I am no longer frightened of being alone, living alone. I am no longer scared to just be 'me' (the real me, rather than the facade I've put on all these years). I know that I am capable of forgiveness, peace, hope and grace in the face of adversity. I know that I can be strong and have courage. Whatever happens with my marriage, it has been worth going through this experience for my own benefit! Like Lori said, I am a better person for it - and I believe that my husband will be too, he has hard lessons to learn as well. Yes, I do still love the 'real Rod', the Rod that I know is still in there somewhere. Sometimes I get confused with the 'alien Rod' who is so cold and cruel and heartless - but I'm beginning to be able to separate the two, and concentrate on loving the real version. I can ignore the alien most of the time.<P>All the best, Paint.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Hi JK,<P>Been watching your progress. You have been getting good advice here. Unfortunately your down days will still keep coming. How you react to them is now more within your control. <P>Plant your feet solid, be stable. Your family needs that and right now you are the only one that can do that for them. If this feels like a pep talk it is. <P>The acceptance stage will come when your mind is ready. For me it took 3 1/2 months (I may have been a bit stubborn). No new revelation, just woke up one morning, said enough, called H and said it was ok to start the D, I could mentally handle it. H was stunned because he & OW thought I would give them a bad time. I was but not on their terms. Hmmmph..... This threw OW for a loop since she is devious and wanted to see me suffer. My cool and non-chalant attitude made OW squimish. That was my plan and it worked. First I had to get to that acceptance stage, then the ball was in my court. I went to plan B, never looked back (was prepared to go the D route) and don't regret that decision one bit. <P>Now that is my story. Everyone has to analyze their own situation. But my point is you will eventually get to that acceptance stage. Hang in there and vent here until you do. Even when you get there the issues may change but you will have enough stability and experience on your side to be able to handle it. With and without MB. Being here is very supportive and probably saved a few 'unknowing' lives. .....and the OP's thought we didn't like them..... little do they know how many times their lives have been spared because we can come here !<P>It is normal to not want to save your marriage when it is in the condition it is in now. Why should you settle for less than the best for you and your family or play 2nd string to the OP? Even I have thoughts about pulling out and we are 'suppose' to be in recovery. Hmmmph..... what about that? So JK, you are not alone. <P>Stick it out with us. We will all help each other pull through and the smiley face will smile again. I promise. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.<P><BR>

JK!!!!<BR>Yes, yes, yes!!!!You are normal. I hate to say this but, it took nine months for my WH to tell me the truth. He lied and lied some more and lied some and lied to covr the lies and so on. I am at a point now where I am so confused and manipulated by the lies that I have lost hope and am trying to work on me. <BR>It is funny, I had a reality check today. I was asked if I wanted to save my marriage or just didn't want a divorce. The two are very different. <BR>Today I am without hope and just want to walk away and cut my losses and my pain. (My WH does have other issues, he is being treated for depression and has been a closet alcoholic, also.) Tomorrow I may feel the same way, but come Friday I may feel different. What SOME WS don't understand is that everytime you uncover another lie, it is like D-Day all over again, only magnifide with each untruth. Each lie also sends the message that there is no remorse and that they want to build a life and marriage on lies and have a constant foundation on which the marriage can always crumble.<BR>My heart goes out to you. At this point my marriage is failing becaus eof lies and manipulations, the affair is secondary, except for the fact that he was more honest and open to her than he ever was with me.<BR>I have so much I could say to you...but, I think for the most part, you need to know that you are not alone in your wife's lies, you are not alone in what you feel and yours is not a different story. <BR>I do suggest you ask yourself, "Do I dislike my wife or do I hate the things she has done and continues to do?" If it is her actions, that is very different from the person. <BR>You are not wrong for wanting, needing and expecting the truth. You are worth nothing less. <BR>

dun_z<P>Wow, for once in my life I want to be normal, and it sounds like I am. <P>First, I'll answer the question that was posed to you;<P>"I was asked if I wanted to save my marriage or just didn't want a divorce." Both, I love my wife, my family and chlidren, and will fight to the bitter end to save them/it. And also I don't want to be divorced.<BR> <BR>The 2nd question: "Do I dislike my wife or do I hate the things she has done and continues to do?" is kind of retorical. Obviously I hate the things she has done and contiunes to do, but I have understanding which makes it a bit easier to palet, I just want it to stop. Incidentlay hate some of the things I have done, but I am truly remosreful and have apoligized. Now the retorical part, I like and love my wife, however this person is not the woman I married. I do not like her. When she wakes up and comes out of the fog, and everyone I talk to believes she will (except her), when my wife returns, I will accept her with open arms and welcome her home (figurative home).<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dun_z:<BR><B>JK!!!!<BR>Yes, yes, yes!!!!You are normal. I hate to say this but, it took nine months for my WH to tell me the truth. He lied and lied some more and lied some and lied to covr the lies and so on. I am at a point now where I am so confused and manipulated by the lies that I have lost hope and am trying to work on me. <BR>It is funny, I had a reality check today. I was asked if I wanted to save my marriage or just didn't want a divorce. The two are very different. <BR>Today I am without hope and just want to walk away and cut my losses and my pain. (My WH does have other issues, he is being treated for depression and has been a closet alcoholic, also.) Tomorrow I may feel the same way, but come Friday I may feel different. What SOME WS don't understand is that everytime you uncover another lie, it is like D-Day all over again, only magnifide with each untruth. Each lie also sends the message that there is no remorse and that they want to build a life and marriage on lies and have a constant foundation on which the marriage can always crumble.<BR>My heart goes out to you. At this point my marriage is failing becaus eof lies and manipulations, the affair is secondary, except for the fact that he was more honest and open to her than he ever was with me.<BR>I have so much I could say to you...but, I think for the most part, you need to know that you are not alone in your wife's lies, you are not alone in what you feel and yours is not a different story. <BR>I do suggest you ask yourself, "Do I dislike my wife or do I hate the things she has done and continues to do?" If it is her actions, that is very different from the person. <BR>You are not wrong for wanting, needing and expecting the truth. You are worth nothing less. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

dun_z, in response to your comment:<P>"I do suggest you ask yourself, 'Do I dislike my wife or do I hate the things she has done and continues to do?' If it is her actions, that is very different from the person."<P>That is very true. One screw-up doesn't make one a lousy individual. However, we are the sum of our actions. The *sum* of them. What do the actions of a person who continues to hide, evade, refuse to tell the truth, etc., say about that individual? That they are a likeable person? That this is someone you can trust? <P>I have no issue trusting someone who is capable of saying,"I made a mistake, and I take full responsibility." But I do *not* trust someone who defers the blame, refuses to "come clean," or refuses to clean up the mess they made. That, to me, is the sum of a person I don't like very much and whom I do not want in my life.<P>Can someone who was once trustworthy and likeable change into an unlikeable, untrustworthy person? As human beings, we are capable of inner change. Maybe then we should think not in terms of our WS's showing us their "true colors" (as though they always carried that mendacity around with them) but rather, that they became this ugly, unlikeable person once they got involved with the OP? <P>belld <BR>