My H really laid into me last night, that our marriage was based on love.. but there was nothing else. He sits back and waits for me to come to him, to discuss the A, to talk through it. He waits for me to "do things with him that I did with the OM"... (all we did was meet at lunch occasionally and talk on the phone a lot)..He says he is waiting for me to "prove" that I want our marriage to work, that I want to be with him.. that I should be going out of my way to save it, and he doesn't see that. I was never a talker.. never overly affectionate..... but he says now that I've "raised the stakes".. I should be making changes. He said if things don't drastically turn around soon, he's leaving.. then, he said he didn't think he could ever get over "what I did.." that it was more his ego that was affected than anything, which makes me so angry. Should I do what he wants? Should I pull out all the email he printed (my counselor told me it would be a mistake, but he's insisting he has to go over it)..should I go out of my way and contact him constantly.. he wants me to act like we're dating again.. Is this normally what happens? He has stopped putting me down and talking down to me, thank God. At least I'm not still trying to deal with that too.

<"Should I pull out all the email he printed (my counselor told me it would be a mistake, but he's insisting he has to go over it)..should I go out of my way and contact him constantly.."><P>Why does your counselor think this is a mistake? If I were you I would be looking for a better counselor. Yours seems to be giving you very questionable advice.<P>If doing these things will help your H feel better there are no bad ideas. I made my H tell me very painful and intimate details, I needed to hear them. If your H needs something do it. I mean it is not really too much to ask is it? If it helps your H to heal and accept you really want to work on your marriage, don't even think twice, give him all the reassurance, and whatever he needs right now. You have to earn it, remember? What your H is feeling is perfectly normal for a BS.<P><BR>

Leighann - you say that you want to be with your husband, what is holding you back from meeting his needs? You say...<P><B>He sits back and waits for me to come to him, to discuss the A, to talk through it. He waits for me to "do things with him that I did with the OM"... (all we did was meet at lunch occasionally and talk on the phone a lot)..I was never a talker.. never overly affectionate..... but he says now that I've "raised the stakes".. I should be making changes....</B><P>It appears that there are things about the affair that he wants to know about and he wants you to volunteer the information instead of having to come to you drilling you with questions. I am sure he has made statements concerning things that he wonders about happening between you and the OM, or how you truly feel about him, and from what you have written, it doesn't seem as though you have responded in the manner that you know he wants. As far as your H wanting you to do things with him like you did for the OM, you state that you are not a talker, yet you talked to the OM on the phone alot. Your husband is hurt by the fact that with him, you are not a talker, yet with the OM you are. Try to imagine being in his shoes Leighann, how would you feel knowing that your spouse behaved one way with another woman, then came to you and told you he couldn't because he wasn't that type of person.<P><BR><B>....that it was more his ego that was affected than anything, which makes me so angry.</B><P>Why does thae fact that your affair hurt your husband's ego anger you? Do you really feel that your affair shouldn't have affected his ego? Affairs destroy the egos of the BS.<P><B>he wants me to act like we're dating again..Is this normally what happens? He has stopped putting me down and talking down to me, thank God. At least I'm not still trying to deal with that too.</B><P>The fact that you are here at MB, tell me that you want your marriage to work, but I will be honest with you Leighann, some of the things that you have posted not only on this thread, but others as well, really make me wonder if you love your husband. What's so wrong with dating your husband, maybe if all of us here at MB had continued to date our spouses, none of us would be here. Leighann, talk to your husband, be affectionate with him, date him, make him fall in love with you all over again. Your husband loves you, if he didn't, he would have left you. Apparently he is trying to not to do the things that you have let him know hurts you, he is trying Leighann and that is all you can ask of someone that has been hurt as he has been with your affair. It doesn't seem as though your husband is asking for anything unreasonable, what's wrong with trying to meet his needs?? <P><BR>

Leighann,<BR>You probably understand that you got involved with the OM because he was meeting your needs that were going unmet. It's quite likely your H had needs going unmet as well, but he didn't have an affair...you did. And, once you were in an affair, you probably met even fewer of your H's needs, plus an affair is one huge, running lovebuster to the betrayed spouse. Every lunch or phone call you had with the OM was a lunch or phone call you did not have with your spouse.<P>Your H is acting normal for a betrayed spouse...whatever normal in that context means--for someone who has been hurt, betrayed and cheated on.<P>If your H is saying all your marriage was based on was love, nothing else, my guess is that he has felt a lack of recreational companionship, sex, affection, conversation, etc. His needs aren't being met. Plus he's angry--another step in the grief process of dealing with infidelity.<P>So, yes, I think if you want your marriage you should "go out of your way" to meet your H's needs, even if he isn't exactly meeting yours right now. Practice some unconditional love for, say, 2 weeks. Don't expect anything back, just meet his needs lovingly. I know until I did that at one point, I never realized how conditionally I was loving...I'll only do this if you do that...selfish kid-stuff when you look at it in print. <P>Somebody has to start the recovery process. It's ideal if it is both of you working...but from what you are saying your H is wanting to see some effort. I have no doubt you are trying...but sometimes trying is more of not doing things, not lovebusting, and it is difficult to see that effort.<P>And, what's wrong with acting like you are dating again? Was it horrible the first time? <P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Whatever is true, honorable, just, pure, lovely, gracious...think about these things." Phil 4:8

Thanks for all the advice.. I'm sooo confused.. Yes, our counselor told me that we should talk about it, but not in detail.. and that talking about it a lot could be detrimental. When I told her he brought home the email and laid it on the table for us to talk about, she told me not to.. that all he was trying to do was punish me. Please remember, that my husband is a "control" person. While we were in therapy he told me that he didn't want to go back because he could "manipulate" me better without intervention! I am trying desparately to save my marriage without being controlled again.. I can't go through that again. But, I think, in trying to save myself and my own sanity, I am losing him. I do love him unconditionally- I just don't love him like he wants me to.. I try to. Example, the other morning, he came home from work.. I hugged him when he came in, sat in his lap, asked how his day was.. I never left his side until he went to bed.. As I kissed him good night, (he was sleeping during the day) he said "If you really loved me, you would have crawled into bed with me"... it hit me like a rock. That's how it always is.. I don't ever do enough or the right things.. and he says that's an excuse. I feel like I can't win and it hurts so much. It brings me down and it's hard to walk away feeling good. All I know to do is to keep trying, and I will, as hard as it will be, discuss the A with him.. I don't think I have any other choice.

You can't prove the uncertain Leighann, he too has to forgive you for what's happened, he may not forget, but he can forgive. ("The stakes have been raised") He's looking for you to ("prove")* to him your love, and your commitment to him. He's looking for you to show him he's more important then anyone else in your life.<P>I see you trying to show him, and trying to ("prove") as best as you can. He too need's to stop and look at those things, and not focus on what "you didn't do" and instead focus on whats really important which is what you "are doing" Communication is the key, and it doesn't sound like theres a lot there, but any is postive, and any communication help to build.<P>My suggestion, is work on more communication. If your counselor is saying ("Don't talk in great detail about the (A)") I agree and disagree with parts of that. There are things you can leave out, and things that are more hurtfull then help.<P>Focus on the postives of the situation, so many of us see the negatives of a situation, when theres so much good that comes from things, even good that comes from negative things. Look at things from a diffrent light. Trying to understand the other person, and trying to put yourself in thier shoes is a big help as well.<P>H.<P>* Prove is in quotes, and brackets, because I dislike using the word in that context. I dislike using the word prove when it comes to showing love, and affection.

Thank you.. H.. you make a lot of sense... I don't like *proving love either.. When two people love each other, they should feel it and know it.. there shouldn't be proving and scorekeeping going on, which is the way it feels for me. "if you loved me you would..." That could be an endless pit. I'll take your advice and just continue to try.. I really am trying.

Thats all anyone can really do Leighann. Just continue to love, continue to grow, learn and communicate. It will get better over time. It always does. As difficult as it may be looking at the postives is a big help at times, and maybe thats something you can do with your husband. Let him know you are trying. Let him know, how you feel about things as well. That it feels like a contest, like he's keeping some scores, and that part is detrimental to your rebuilding your lives. It breeds some negativity on your end, as you are posting about these things. If he's really willing to try and work things out with you. Then he needs to also look and notice when you are trying, and you are working towards a better understanding and communication. He's saying "This is your chance" but he's not listening to his own words. He's looking for you to prove things to him, and thats going to be the case for awhile i'm sure, as he's distrusting of you at times. My wife is the same with me in this situation. I told her I wanted to work on things, I told her a lot of things, and I turned right around and asked for a divorce. So it's going to take some time Leighann. Going to take some time for him to recognize and realize that he can forgive you, you can forgive yourself, and you can grow stronger together. So be patient, give him the time he needs and the time you need to heal. Take small steps, and communicate. I see you're talking with us, and thats a big help. As you're getting the support you need. Where is he getting his support? He needs that as well. So continue to love, care, and support him. It will get better over time.<P>H. <p>[This message has been edited by [H] (edited June 11, 2001).]

Leighann,<BR> Be careful when you "assume" stuff about what your spouse should know. I think this is the major reason a lot of us are here. In love, or not, H's and W's seem to be so different that we should *always* tell each other what's up - like how much we love them. <P>I always looked for certain behavior to tell me that my W loved me and I thought I was broadcasting the message as well. Guess what, we spent much time being angry and confused. We were both looking for different clues. What a waste. <P>Your H seems to expect you to be psychic about his needs. Somehow you've got to get him to tell you. We had to read HNHN to get on track - it helped *a lot*. Maybe your C can get him to talk about his needs if he won't do HNHN with you.<P> - Jeff

Jeff is right here. I was trying to touch on that piece myself and some how got off my point. You do need to talk with him, and let him know how you're feeling about all of this, and let him talk with you. You can't read his mind, and he can't read yours. So communication has got to be there.<P>H.<P>Thanks Jeff you said what I wanted to say <p>[This message has been edited by [H] (edited June 11, 2001).]

All I can say is that as a BS, if my WH had shown more conviction in trying to prove to me that he really loved me and regretted his mistake, then we would be working on our marriage today. All I wanted to hear him say with words and actions is "I love you, I am so sorry for the pain I have caused, and I want you back. I will do whatever it takes as long as I know you will too."<P>I do feel you have to "prove" something. Try to put yourself in his shoes. Good luck to you both.

Proof, establishing the truth or validity of anything by presentation of facts and evidence.<P>So how does Leighann prove that she loves her husband? Well because there is distrust on both sides now. She can't prove anything. He says or does things because of lack of trust. He says, well if you did this or that it might help. She questions his motives, how is this helping? She also may not trust him. Perhaps it's manipulation. Perhaps it isn't. I can certainly understand her situation. <P>This is very much my situation with my wife. I am doing whatever I can to help rebuild that trust with her. However. The big diffrence between myself and Leighann is that my wife is saying ("Thank you, this helps me") I am also making and taking steps to do things ahead of time. That show how much she means to me, how much I care, and how sorry I am about the (A)<P>These little steps add up to bigger steps in the big picture. So I try and do what I can when I can, and say this is what I am doing. Does this help us? What else can I do in you mind to elivate some of your fears, some of your questions. <P>Patience, Understanding and Love Leighann. Remember we had the (A). We broke that trust. We have to help rebuild it as well. So focus on the positives. <P>So I reiterate Leighann. Stay postive, strong, and tell him you do care, you do love him, you want to be with him, and work on your communication with him. Reassure him of your love and commitment.<P>H.<P>As always, take what good you can from posts disgard the rest. Focus on things that are postive and up beat.

Leighann, how would you feel if your husband had cheated on you. Try hard to imagine yourself in his shoes.<P>He is giving you a chance to "prove" your intent to remain faithful after you betrayed his trust in a very hurtful way. <P>Your counselor needs to realize that even though your husband might be controlling, YOU were the one that had the affair, and that YOU are therefore the one that has the most work to do to overcome that in your marriage. Your husband is communicating to you what he needs for you to convince him that you want the marriage.<P>Do you want the marriage?<P>Don't let your counselor decide that FOR you - some individual counselors advise things that are terribly detrimental to marriages, because they advocate only what is going to make you happy, not what is best for your marriage and therefore down the line will make you both happy.<BR><P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by [H]:<BR><B>If your counselor is saying ("Don't talk in great detail about the (A)") I agree and disagree with parts of that. There are things you can leave out, and things that are more hurtfull then help.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>With all due respect, I totally disagree with leaving things out. It is that type of dishonesty that has you and everybody else here on this forum. While some BS do not want to know all of the details, there are some that do, you deciding what is best for your spouse to know can do nothing but lead to trouble, it's why you are here now. If your husband is asking you the questions, answer them, truthfully and honestly. The truth may in fact hurt him, but if you ask most of the BS here, they will tell you that it is the lies that hurt the most, so Leighann, answer your husbands questions, honestly and truthfully, while he may initially be hurt, it will go a long way in "proving" that you love him and want your marriage to work, you will be building back up some of the trust.

I see what FA is saying, and I agree with him / her on this. Being totally honest, communicating, and answering those questions is very important. However ("Damaging it may seem in the beginning") If he or she wants to know, tell them. <P>I wouldn't want to know every single sexual detail, as I believe that would damage me more then it would do positive. If he or she wants to know, by all means tell them. However, don't go overboard and perhaps answer questions he or she is not ready to hear.<P>That right there is the key. ("I wouldn't want to know... What I may or may not want to know differs in what my wife may or may not want to know")<P>H.<P>As always my advice is just that. My advice. Take what you will or wont from it. It's just some words from someone who doesn't have all the answers, and never will have all the answers. Take what good you can from my stories, my words, and use it to your advantage. If you disagree with something I've said. Disregard it.<p>[This message has been edited by [H] (edited June 12, 2001).]