To all the (BS's) out there. Just a reminder from a man who told his wife. I don't want to be with you anymore. I am the (WS) and I so often told my wife. I wanted a divorce and or seperation. She kept faith in me, in her, and in god. She kept hoping, and praying for the best nightly. Even when I wasn't praying anymore. Even in the darkest of times. She stayed strong, wide eyed and hopeful.<P>There is hope for everyone, just have to keep working, and keep trying. If something fails, look at it from a diffrent light and use that mistake to better the next attempt. If something isn't working have patience, give it time. Take small steps. I am by no means an expert, just offering [H]'s view point is all <P>Above all I kept telling my wife, I don't know what you see in me anymore, I don't know why you still love me. Love is a choice. She doesn't have to love me because I do this or that. She chooses to love me. I can't make that choice for her. It's also my choice to love her, and that I do. I always have, and I always will. It's what I want, and it's my choice. Love is great that way.<P>So have hope, have faith, and keep communicating. Keep talking, keep sharing.<P>H.<p>[This message has been edited by [H] (edited June 15, 2001).]

Hi H,<P>Wow, this is so good to hear. Like a breathe of fresh air for those of us who have had to watch our mates walk in the fog. <P>You have given us hope for the future and right now some of us really need it. Me for one. WS for another. I really wish my H could have your understanding. I am happy for you and your W. <P>May your recovery be blessed and your future be a strong one together. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.

Possibilities are endless Orchid.<P>It's scary to think how much of us don't analyze the situation at hand. We look to the obvious answers in the (A) we look for the easy answers. Which are ("That our wives or husbands are evil, mean, vindictive people") Rather then truely see the parasite involved. Who is none other then the (OW), or (OM). I'm no perfect angel mind you, and I definately take responcibility for my actions, and the consequences there after. It's so hard to even for cat's to find flee's sucking them dry of life, and leaving them with bruised blood. The cat scratches, but the flee's so often move, or change postion. Only to reattach themselves. This is very much (OW) for me. I flinched, she moved. Changed her stance, pushed me just to the breaking point at times, then turned and told me. I'm sorry.. I love you. So I stayed. It was difficult for me to grasp that she was doing this to me, and it wasn't my wife.<P>So often we look for answers, and sometimes in the wrong places. As (WS) we often look for the answers from (OP) instead of our wives our husbands. We don't want to believe we are being used, or manipulated. We also don't want to admit we are wrong, and we definately don't want the fairy dust of the romance to wear off. Who would? Those magical feelings of being in love. It's like euphoria. Overwhelming at times. This person tells you everything you want to hear, and shows you everything you want to see.<P>It's so tough to look at that objectively, and say.. Where the hell have I been? Sleeping, lost and blind.. At times it's easier to break free. After an argument with (OW) I found I fled to my wife. However this time, there was no argument. I knew what I was making was yet another mistake, I knew I had an opportunity to fix that mistake. I was tired of getting played. "You don't need to take that crap" Oh? Then why am I taking it from you (OW) Why are you suddenly allowed to tell me what I can and can't do?<P>Guess I caught on to the game, and saw so much more then that then. I'm not the smartest guy in the world, and I'm not the dumbest either. Every situation is diffrent, and every person is diffrent. It takes others longer, and shorter times to break free from damaging cycles like I described above. You also have to be willing to break free from those things. So much of us don't want to do that. Because it's scary. What if I go back to my wife, and the same things happen all over again? What if's come in to play. What if she's really just waiting to hurt me, waiting tell I come back, and then saying "Oh btw" just to hurt me. It can be a scary time.<P>Scary time or not, it's better then being someones ("*****") Someones chess piece. Guess what (OW) checkmate, I figured the game out, and got out. You lose. Game over for you. Now you might want to work on your marriage (OW) Instead of helping me destroy mine. My acreditation goes to 3 people. In my family, My wife first and foremost. And two people in my family whom I will mention sometime, and what they said to me that really turned this (WS) back into a husband.<P>H.<p>[This message has been edited by [H] (edited June 11, 2001).]

I am going to cry. You are going to make me cry with this stuff. It is what my dreams are made of lately. <P>I pray everyday for my H to see what he is losing...<P>[H] you are truly blessed.<P><BR>Cali<p>[This message has been edited by StrongerInCali (edited June 13, 2001).]

Well, it did take me a while to break from from her. It wasn't exactly next day. I believe it was 4 months or so. I honestly don't remember the amount of time involved. Only that it took me too long to do it, to long to see it, and thats 4 months of working on my marriage I could have had, instead of wasted moments with (OW). <P>So i'm a upset with my self to say the least about the whole thing. I am a smart guy, and it bothers me I let her play me. I let her tell me how to feel, act, and react. So yeah i'm bitter towards (OW)<P>From the negatives come the positives. I am now taking all that energy and focusing on whats important to me. Thats my marriage, and my place with God. So I'm learning what I can, growing, and changing by leaps and bounds. Taking baby steps as it were to fix the problems, and repair the damage. It's a long path and happy path. <P>Like I said a very exciting time for us. As the communication grows and grows, there isn't uncertainty or doubt between us. Theres just love, compassion, and understanding. For me in particular I see my hopes, dreams, and goals materialize right before my eyes again. All those things we wanted, are coming back to life, and i'm watching out marriage flower and bloom just as it started.<P>H.

Dear H<P>Thanks for your honesty.<BR>My H is in the beginning stages of withdrawal, loves her still and not me, but doesn't want her and not sure about me. He says the same as you - scared nothing will change if he comes back and doesn't want to be miserable forever. How can I tell if he really loves me or not? He says he cares but doesn't love. Whats the difference? What feelings did you go through? How does it change?<P>Dancer

Dancer<P>I'm gonna skip around a lot, when I write this. This is because i'm not a very good writer, and I think of things as I go. Be patient, and hopefully there's something in here you can use.<P>The change is a gradual one. For me I was afraid at first that (OW) would find out I was talking with my wife. And I knew that if (OW) found out, then she would be very upset with me. Because you definately know, you can't have both people. <P>The first stage comes, if the (OW) finds out I'm talking with my wife, she'll leave. This I'm not really sure how to deal with. For me well I hid talking to my wife, and that seemed to help me. I wasn't burning my bridge with (OW) ("Yet") So I felt safe. I wasn't promising my wife the world ("Yet") and I was getting an opportunity to talk with her again. Thing is I think it's with most people as well.<P>We leave the house in the first place, or move out. To show (OW) we are serious about leaving our wives. So that strengthens our love for them. Well most of us move back in, or come back. Now we like to blame "Money" and say it's easier to move back in, but I really don't believe that. I don't believe that because of money we move back in. If that was the case, then why aren't we getting a second job, or working extra hard, to get extra money to get ahead, and move on with our lives? If we really wanted a divorce, why aren't we doing it the next day? Why aren't we doing these things asap. It takes time to change, and time to realize. That it's not our wives who are pointing the finger of disgust. Saying, I can't believe this or that. It's me.. I'm the one pointing the finger, and putting words in her mouth. Saying all of these negative things.<P>God was also brought up in my getting away from (OW) I had said to my friend. I've done a lot of things god isn't proud of I'm sure. Lying, and the Affair I know god isn't proud of. I turned away from god at the time of my (A) because I couldn't ask him for help, and then turn around and stay in the affair. I was afraid lightning would strike me down If I asked for gods help, and then did whatever I wanted. My friend said, god doesn't like any sin. It's all the same, he forgives one as easy as the next. He also said God doesn't give up his own. It's amazing that all these people are praying for me, and how god works. I happen to trust my friend whom i'm talking about here. I trust his opinions and his advice. I was reluctant at first to tell him what was going on. I assumed ("More finger pointing, and yelling") He never judged me, never told me what to do, he only asked questions.<P>This is from a chat program. These are my actualy logs of the chat, with names changed of course. I saved this chat I had with my friend. Sometime I might post the whole thing, so everyone here can see exactly how I changed even in this chat with my friend from wondering, to making that first step of contact with my wife again. For now here's a few pieces that really hit home for me.<P>===================================<BR>(My friend)<BR>But over time you will figure out what is really important, and make that important to you.<BR>(Me)<BR>She's hurt me pretty bad in the past, and she's showing me so much love and compassion lately, and all I do is hurt her, and that worries me. She's changed a lot, and its from her reading, learning, and growing. it makes me second guess a lot of things.<BR>(Me)<BR>Like what the heck am I doing?<BR>(Friend)<BR>It's not to late to change direction.<BR>(Me)<BR>On some level, a small part of me, wonders if she's just trying to get back at me. Letting me believe some things, before she hurts me again. but I dont think thats the case here.. <BR>(Friend)<BR>A loving marrage is made of choices to love each other.<BR>(Me)<BR>I do still love her, I wont deny that, to anyone except (ow)<BR>(Friend)<BR>It would be another mistake to continue in a mistake.<BR>(Friend)<BR>If you have doubts, don't mute them.<BR>(Me)<BR>I just don't know whats right. If I was unhappy before, will that happen again?<BR>(Me)<BR>Will I be almost forced to run a stray as I did?<BR>(Friend)<BR>Sure... You'll be unhappy again.<BR>(Me)<BR>But to what depths?<BR>(Friend)<BR>but things don't have to be the same.<BR>(Me)<BR>How does that resolution or agreement come about? <BR>(Friend)<BR>You could start just by working on the relationship.<BR>(Friend)<BR>Compromise.<BR>(Friend)<BR>Biblical pricipals.<BR>(Me)<BR>I did have a long conversation with her last night.<BR>(Friend)<BR>and love.<BR>(Friend)<BR>You have to change some of your views, and she has to change some of hers.<BR>(Me)<BR>I talked with her, as a friend mostly, i've done some nasty stuff to her, and I dont know what she continues to love me inspite all of it.<BR>(Friend)<BR>love isn't based on things, it's a choice.<BR>(Friend)<BR>If it's based on things, then it's driven by feelings.<BR>(Friend)<BR>Feelings are liars.<BR>(Me)<BR>Hmm<BR>(Friend)<BR>Love is doing what is right, not what feels right.<BR>(Friend)<BR>It didn't feel good for Jesus to hang on the cross.<BR>(Me)<BR>I imagine not.<BR>(Friend)<BR>When I was saying that you'd both have to change your views,<BR>(Friend)<BR>I didn't mean to suit each other, but I ment according to scripture.<BR>(Friend)<BR>There are things that she would have to recognize about you as her husband,<BR>(Friend)<BR>and you'd have to learn to be a Christ like husband.<BR>(Me)<BR>Hmm<BR>(Me)<BR>Difficult for me to do... I dont even know where to start with that, and I certainly don't feel like a christian lately.<BR>(Me)<BR>in fact, i haven't prayed, or spoken to god, lately, i'm just shamed. <BR>(Friend)<BR>Again, the feelings are liars.<BR>(Friend)<BR>Those are things you should do, but they don't make you a Christian.<BR>(Friend)<BR>God doesn't dissown His own.<BR>(Me)<BR>I hope not, I need his help, and I am so afraid to ask for it.<BR>(Me)<BR>Becuase when I ask for it, it seems I can't follow it.<BR>(Me)<BR>Or the signs aren't so clear, I know what I do is wrong, and when I ask for help, what kind of person am I to then turn and do what I feel?<BR>(Friend)<BR>He always helps us, <BR>(Friend)<BR>but not always the help we want.<BR>(Friend)<BR>It takes time to change what you do.<BR>(Friend)<BR>But that's a result of Him changing who you are.<BR>====================================<P>There that gets you into the mind of me for a short while, during my ("I want to talk to my wife, and I want to stop the affair, and I want to do the right thing phase.") At the time I spoke with my friend, the affair was still on going, and I wasn't talking to my wife, as my wife. Just had talked with her the night before as a ("Friend")<P>I also had to understand thats what I was doing. I was feeling guilty, remorse, and I was hurting too. It took me a while to say, it's okay. She well forgive you, and you can forgive yourself, and you can move on. You can get stronger because of this. You don't often read about people getting through this time. More people in this situation then it seems aren't. <P>Another piece of it. I got so used to (OW) calling the shots, and telling me what to do, then saying if you don't i'll leave as well. At first that scares you, but for me it was diffrent. I began to realize. Wait a minute. (OW) is telling me, I don't need to take this crap from my wife, and I deserve better, and I deserve this and that. Then why is it okay for (OW) to push my buttons, call the shots, and tell me what I can and can't do? Why is it I can't talk to my wife if I want? Because (OW) will leave me? That's funny I don't see my wife leaving, and in fact she's just sitting at home right now, living her life, taking care of our finances, and taking care of herself.<P>Those are all postive things. I'm not hearing from a wife who's saying, you can't do this or that. Instead I'm hearing this from (OW) and it grew on me slowly. I began to realize what I was doing was a mistake. I was continuing a mistake. Which is an even bigger mistake. <P>Some of us are scared to make that first step. I was scared that If I choose my wife again, that things would return back to the same as they were. I hadn't realized theres no way things can ever be the same. Things won't ever be the same now. This is a plus, I just didn't see it then. I didn't want to burn my bridge with (OW) So at first I was reluctant. Things can't and won't be the same because of the (A) I didn't see that at first. I do now. It's not a negative change over all. It's a postive one, which allows total communication between my wife and I. That communication allows much more then that. It's total unjudged honesty, love, and understanding. <P>I spoke with my wife a little bit one day. I never said I dont want a divorce or seperation at that time. We just talked. As friends it seems. The friends that we started out as. I kept reminding her. "We're just two friends talking here" That made it much easier for both of us to say what we're thinking.<P>Well it made it easier for me. As I was still thinking ("I don't want to lead you on, I don't want to hurt you anymore, I don't want to string you along, and I don't want things to go back to where they were") A time we didn't communicate. Lost all of dreams, hopes, and friendship it seemed.<P>For me I was looking for my wife to say a lot of things. Like ("You had an (A)!!!!!, I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU") and so on. I looked for irrational statements out of her, I looked for the pycho behavior. I looked for vindictive things. Because these are all things (OW) was telling me to look for. <P>I looked for judging behavior. Because I thought thats what was coming. We've see our wives and husbands get upset before. We this is the ultimate upset.. So we expect ultimate retrobution, not just a cold look from accross the room, and not just a door slamming. We are expecting a major major blow out. I looked for my wife to scream and yell at me, because I was expecting it. I was also being told by (OW) she's a pyscho.<P>It's when you don't see this behavior. I started to understand, my wife really never gave me an inch to fuel that belief and I still believed she was out to get me through it all. Becuase it made sense, I expected it. I didn't understand her. We weren't talking. I hadn't realized she wasn't pointing every finger at me. She wasn't looking to blame me. She was looking to talk to me, and figure out a way to solve our problems, a way to grow, and communicate.<P>She was upset a few times with me, and I reminded her. Just two friends talking. So the initial first talk we had was good. It was very non-judgemental. Very innocent I guess. <P>She did a lot of reassuring to me on her part. She reassured me, she's here for me as well. She knows that she wasn't innocent in all of this either, and no one is to blame for what happened. It just happened. We can and will grow stronger as whole. We can put this behind us. It's good we wont forget about it, but its even better we can use this to our advantage.<P>I still feel nasty about myself, and I still feel disgusting at times, remorseful. I say things like ("Why did I do this, why am I such a terrible person, I willingly hurt my wife this way") Well I'm starting to say things like I'm human, I make mistakes, she's not pointing the finger at me, why am I pointing the finger at me. I will get stronger, I will fix these things, I will learn, I will grow, and this changes everything for the better. Before this moment, we were just two people not involved really, just people living two seperate lives, on two seperate wave lengths of communication. This (A) shattered our lives it seems, shattered our communication at first. It brought us down to the same level, and same wave length.<P>Now I don't expect or assume things. If I wan't to know something I ask. It's so very simple now. She tells me whatever she wants. If she has questions she asks. I respond with my answers its very easy and simple. No one wants a complicated life, where they have to explain things. <P>I don't have all the answers, I don't even want all the answers, but I can continue posting, and trying to help some of you in this most difficult time. I rather enjoy giving back, makes me feel great.<P>H.<p>[This message has been edited by [H] (edited June 12, 2001).]

Wanted to post something else here as well.<P>Friends with (OP) will not work after an (A) <BR>I can't and don't see how it could ever work.<P>I see a lot of people on here saying, well my wife or my husband wants to remain friends with (OP) after the affair. This very simply put is never going to happen. Theres always going to be some detrimental effects from this. (OW) or (OM) will feel diffrently then you do. Beginning another (A) over time, or hindering your progress with your wife or husband. I don't know of anyone who's really broken the boundry of moving past friendship, and then going back to friendship. It's very very difficult because both people have to agree on that. Both people have to see its for the best, and in an (A) type of situation. I don't think this can ever be the resolve. Perhaps the (OP) might say yeah we can be friends, but how good is it to be friends with someone that is hindering the progress of your marriage? Someone your wife or husband isn't going to want to be friends with, someone they can't be friends with.<P>Over all its very selfish to want this. At a time when your being so selfish all ready. With I want's and I need's. It's the least I can do to help my wife, in not contacting (OP) the very least I can do to help us. It's easy for me I guess, because I see things so clearly now. There isn't some cloudy veil over my eyes, isn't someone telling me this or that anymore. <P>Just me, really talking with my wife again. As we did in the beginning. With wide eyes, and hopefulness.<P>H.

The in laws.<P>This is a tough one I think. For me I was worried about what I had done perhaps forever changed the look they would have towards me. I was afraid that they lost the love for me. After all look what I did to their daughter.<P>You hear stories about people hating you, for doing this or that to their sons and daughters, people being overly defensive. Especially dads and their daughters. This is something I will and am dealing with slowly. It takes time to rebuild their trust as well. It helps when you have understanding in laws, people whom you love and trust to begin with, but its still a scary thing. <P>("How many people know? Will they judge me as well? Will they say things at dinner, or will the silence be uncomfortable? What about other friends and family? Will my dad or mom be upset with me? Will my brothers or sisters be upset when they find out?")<P>These are all things I think of. I am reluctant to share the story with everyone, but a lot of people know, and a lot of people are trying to understand what we are going through right now. The more people you have on your side, pulling for you. Praying for you. I think the better. There are some people you don't need to run out and tell. There are distant cousins who don't need to know, but immeditate family will always know I'm sure. My plan? I don't plan to hide anything, if someone wants to know, and I feel they should know about it. I'll tell them. My wifes spoken to people allready and thats great. It's been a good support mechanism for her. So I'm not going to dodge around the issue. If I can use what I've learned now, to perhaps save someone else the pain of an (A). Then thats what I will do<P>H.

H I cried reading your posts. You express yourself so well. My single daughter is/hasbeen wasting her time on a MM. Morman Bishop with 4kids, noless. My prayer is that God send someone with your insight to each of them. Please keep writing.<P>------------------<BR>Marry

[H,]<P>::Tears::<P>You are a beautiful person. Never doubt it. Can't you see your own inner beauty shining through? I certainly can! <P>Honor and integrity mean admitting a mistake and letting go of pride and ego. Humbling oneself. It has made you a stellar person, in my eyes. *That* is exactly what God wants. This is what makes a great man. <P>And your Friend is beautiful as well. God spoke through your Friend, loud and clear. And you listened. You weren't too proud to listen and contemplate that you were living a mistake.<P>You are so right about OP - they know just where and when to "strike." I had my own "run-in" with a man who *wanted* to be my OP ... this was during H's estrangement. I was lucky in that I very quickly identified him as a parasite who was preying on my weakness. The very moment he began criticizing my H (whom he'd never even met) and trying to sweet-talk me into doing things that I didn't want to do (like, get involved with him and let him "take me away from a bad marrriage" - manipulative), I knew he was a Predator with a capital "P." I will never defend a person like that, no matter how sweet the talk, and no matter how "good" the intentions. <P>I wish my H were exactly like you. [H,] there is no greater pain than hearing your own H, whom you still love and with whom you desperately want a second chance, defend a serial adultress like the XOW I had to deal with. I have done many, many hurtful things to my H in our marriage. Many things that I readily take responsibility for. But I was never so evil as to get in the way of another person's marriage. There are some things that I will never do. But XOW will answer to God one day ... and I'd really like to know how she will defend herself?<P>You are so blessed. Your W is one lucky lady. <P><BR>belldandy

P.S. You know, for months when H was involved with XOW, I cried every night. I asked God - begged Him - "Please bring my husband home - please help me!" <P>When God didn't bring my H home, I began to feel a little resentful. God is supposed to answer prayers, particularly if they are in ernest. <P>Then one day, I woke up, and this popped into my head: "God helps them who help themselves." I knew then that God wanted ME to help Him. I had to make that leap of faith - I had to extend my hand first, before He could help me up. <P>This is when I decided that Plan B was the best approach. I was too angry with my H to show him that I still loved him. And I was too resentful. There had been too much yelling and finger pointing. So I decided to cut off communication - be strong. Live my life. Let H live his. Let him go.<P>He came back ... it took a lot of time, and two Plan B's to do it. But XOW is finally out of our lives ... for good? I don't know. But like your W, I continue to hope it will be for good. <P>belld

Awe <BR>However, My wife is the one who kept the faith in us. She kept the inspiration of our marriage going. She kept the love for us going. She is the one who kept hoping for the best, at every turn of what seemed to be dispair in our marriage. She's the one who got back up after I dragged her through the mud time and time again. She struggled through many bad times, many bad things and I put her through. She's the one who kept praying for me, kept praying for our marriage. She's the one that waited for me with open arms, and a smile on the other side of the fog. Saying ("Come home baby, it'll be okay.. We can do this together. Come home... We can do anything together.") She was my light, and my inspiration. I don't think I could have made it out, with out a light shining as brightly as she was. She helped hold a steady light for me, and with that I was able to find my way out.<P>I thank god for the many people that helped me find my way back in life. I thank them from the bottom of my heart. My friends and my family, who supported me through everything, who helped me in so many ways. I can never repay that debt.<P>I thank the lord every minute of the day, I thank him for giving me such a patient, tolerant, loving, and understanding wife.<P>H.<p>[This message has been edited by [H] (edited June 12, 2001).]

[H],<P>One question: did you and your W seek counseling?<P>I desperately need for me and my H to go to counseling. It is my no. 1 EN on the Harley list. But he has told me 'no.' That we don't need counseling because it didn't work the last time (last time we were in counseling - one session - he was still in the EMR w/ XOW and I was unaware).<P>I don't know ... maybe this is still part of the "fog?" But it's been a long time now - more than a year. As a man, what kind of argument could I make for counseling? <P>We soooo desperately need it. Not just because of the EMR ... because our marriage is still the same ... no change ... no happiness ... I want to change that. But I feel that I'm working alone.<P>belldandy

I to dislike counselers, but it's because I would much rather deal with Christian counslers, such as my friend, or Marriage coaches. We will be going very soon. We are talking, and we are doing our own counseling right now, which is communication, something we haven't had in a long while, but fact is I will do anything for her, and anything she wants to do as far as counseling I am more then happy to try, even with my bad expierences with them in the past. <P>So as of this very second we haven't had our sessions yet, we will soon. I'm looking forward to learning what I can, looking forward to understanding how I can meet her needs better, and looking forward to ways of communicating with her in the future. So this is a great feeling, we get to watch our marriage flower, and start growing again.<P>I'm not sure why I dislike counselors, I've had bad expierences with them as a whole, when I was young. Nothing but bad came from it. So I'm definately more apt for christian counselors or marriage coaches. Much easier to deal with. I really don't want to dredge up a lot of issues of childhood, or anything. I know I have issues with my childhood, and my wife knows as well. I want to learn how to better understand her. I want to learn how to grow from all of this, and I want to learn how we can use this to our advantage. So we can get back to working towards our dreams, and hopes.<P>H.<p>[This message has been edited by [H] (edited June 12, 2001).]

[H],<P>I agree with you on the counselor issue - I guess I should have qualified my statement to read a Christian counselor, or perhaps a pastor or priest. The one we saw early in our marriage used a technique that is now considered very harmful by many marriage counselors because it focuses too much on old childhood issues and 'excusing' the spouse's behaviors because of those old wounds (a practice that I do NOT believe in, but of course H and I had to drop thousands to finally figure out that the counseling wasn't working - at least it wasn't for me).<P>I'll be interested in hearing about your counseling sessions with your marriage coach. It's so enlightening to read these things from a former-WS with such an open mind! It gives me hope that there are more WSs like you out there who are working to repair their marriages. <P>belld

H, It's wonderful reading about your recovery. You have given me the lifeline I need to hold on to get through all of this so I thank-you so much for sharing with us. I only dream of my H reaching your stage. For us, d-day was April 5th, and his last contact with the OW was April 20th (I think). In his case, according to my H, the OW always felt bad about the A so at this stage, she's the hero. However, the similar side of your story is in the state of the marriage prior to the A. I said and did some pretty awful things to my H so I take responsbility for the breakdown of our relationship. <P>Just wondering, did you feel negative towards your wife regarding your marriage? Did you blame her for the A at first? Did you experience extreme withdrawal?

Bell and H<P>I am still unsure on how one considers the OP in the As are manipulating, self serving parasites. Some might be but some are not. Although I am currently at home and have had no contact with OW for over 4 months now, I regret so much leaving her. <P>The things you said to ur W, about growing apart, not loving her etc are exactly what I am feeling. I do love the OW so dearly. For a long time she never knew I was married, after that I told her I was separated and getting a divorce. She always asked if she was the cause our me wanting to leave W, and I always deny it. Which is true because I separated before I met OW. I wish so much to be free and get rid of this trapped feeling inside. I am feeling very confused about staying. How can it not be love? And if I have ever felt a stronger love this is it. <P>OW was very hurt questioning me if I ever did love her at all, asking me if what we had in the last 2 years was pretence, a lie, whether I regret meeting her. I never will regret meeting her, she gave me life. I told her the truth, all that I have posted in this board, how I felt for her and W. After talking to her a few times, she accepted it. Although I knew she hated it, she said that if there was a chance then I have to take it. That we can only be truly happy together if I knew I had tried everything. And that if I didn’t come back means we were not meant to be. What I had with her I know I never had or will have with W. I feel one day we will be together, I must have met this woman that I have dreamt of all my life for a reason. Friends and family who have seen us together can’t deny the chemistry they see in us. <P>Its harder when u don’t resent the OP. When the OP wants u to do what is right. At times I wonder why she loved and wanted me when she literally could have just about anyone else. If I ever see her with another man my instinct is to immediately punch the living daylights out of him . I couldn’t even wish her well because that’ll mean she will be with someone else. I am trying hard not to think about this woman. Been plunging myself deep in work and the kids these last couple of months, seeking solace in them. I don’t believe in god btw. SO how do u explain this?<BR>

Painforever, <P>This post may be inappropriate, but it’s simply another point of view. OM sent me a “no contact” letter a short time ago, without mentioning he would be going back to be with his wife. I suppose I wanted to know for the sake of complete closure, so I came here to look the other day. I wanted answers that weren't provided (personality flaw of mine--always seeking the truth). I knew he’d post here eventually if he was returning to her, and that is indeed the case. Here he is. It’s been touching to read how he’s found his way home to the woman he was meant to be with.<P>I was [H]’s OW. He was the OM in my life. I was a WS, much like him. <P>With all the drama and misery he and I put each other through, his decision of returning to his wife and no longer contacting me was the best thing that could have happened to either of us (as it appears now and after reading his posts and my life in the recent past). Our path together was a destructive one. I often felt sorry for his W, no matter what he said about her out of anguish, which encouraged my comments to him that he doesn’t need to be treated the way he said he had been. (I believe now he thinks that makes me a manipulator, etc.) <P>I admired his W’s devotion. I told him that, many times. I’m happy they have found their way back to one another. <P>I never meant to get in the way. I didn’t want to be the OW, to anyone. When it all first started, I didn’t know that’s what I was becoming. (There were lies told…many of them to lure me to his side, Painforever, which rings true in part with your situation. I bit the lure, thought I loved him and held on, knowing my own marriage was coming to a close.) I never loved [H]. I loved the “idea” of him. Basically, I wanted my own H to be him. The fog rolls in.<P>[H] wanted a life from me I couldn’t offer. He couldn’t offer me what I needed either. We clung on to each other in a desperate attempt to forget the misery we felt at home, with people we did love dearly, that left us feeling abandoned somehow. We hid and lied to each other about our pain about the people we were leaving behind—-and didn’t want to. <P>It was, as he says, a fantasy. Time together was heaven. Time apart was torture for me, only because I had time to think about my life…the one I really wanted with my husband. The relationship [H] and I created was the epitome of everything I never wanted in a relationship – lies, distrust, deceit included. We did it to each other. We let so much slide all for the sake of having someone to hold on to. The fog enveloped both of us.<P>I’ve always loved my H and will for my entire life. Our story is a tragic one, nearly broken by the circumstance of one wanting children, and the other not. We are bridging that gap now. We are the closest we’ve ever been. Now that he knows about [H]. Even when [H]’s W phoned my H, it only brought my H and I closer. He understood me and forgave me and has loved me more and shared more than he ever has. We both hope we will find a resolution and come together for the rest of time. He is my one true love. I am his. The only person in this life that makes my heart whole. A true soul mate who I respect and admire above and beyond anyone. <P>I knew [H] and I wouldn’t last and I didn’t find the courage to end our A before he did. I applaud him for that. We were heading to the end of our road and we both saw it. I’m only glad it’s not too late for [H] and his wife. He and I started as friends who confided our deepest, darkest fears about our marriages, which opened the door to the A. We walked through that door blindly, holding hands. The only blessing is that our spouses held us by our other hands and brought us back.<P>So, I can tell you that I don’t believe ALL OW/OM are evil and manipulating, while I’m sure many are. [H] and I treated each other horribly. I wouldn’t even say that [H] was completely self-serving no matter how great the wedge he created in my own marriage (which never shook my love for my H, only the situation I was in). I think we both thought we were both desperate and being supportive, confirming for each other what we believed to be true (or feared or said) about our spouses. It was unusually cruel at times, but it was an escape. It was also like a fire that fed itself. It started eating me up…and I expect [H] too. It’s only natural though that because of the A, our respective spouses hold disdain for [H] and I…as I expect they should. I don’t hate or resent [H]. <P>I bear [H] and his wife no ill will, even though they may paint me as evil and manipulative. In many ways, I believe the same of [H] when I recall all that was said and done, as he was the OM. Is that a reason to resent or hate him? No. I believe the reality is that he and I saw a grim future with our own spouses and made the mistake of turning to each other instead of the people who mattered most. I now return, as does he, to a life not cluttered by deceit and lies. I’m glad he is here sharing his encouraging story. I have a point of view too, different from his, in the same situation that may help someone.<P>I have many regrets and am dreadfully sorry about hurting my H. I owe him more than I could ever repay, but I will die trying to make up for my mistakes and failings. The A was so tiring it left me numb most of the time. I’m only glad that out of the depths, some light emerged and both of us were guided home. No fog. Only clear skies. Home.<P>Where we belong. <P>So, yes, there is hope. For everyone. BS and WS alike. It’s a measure of love and understanding. Something unshakable. It would take too much of my energy to hate OM or his wife; energy I want to pour positively into my H.<P>Turn your eyes from what you left behind painforever, and lay them on the one who’s loved you through all of it. The one who’s been unbending. The one who took you back. That’s a rare gift that shouldn’t be discarded based on a dream. And it’s only that–a dream. Two years is a long time, I agree, but most of what you’re feeling towards OW is an illusion. You would wake up from that dream eventually. It’s all an infatuation of what “could” be. The reality is often much grimmer than that portrait of heaven we paint with OP, as I found out. <P>And, I don’t believe in God either. I believe in people, especially those who trust and forgive me my mistakes. My H and I don’t need God’s help, and never did, to bring us together. We did that alone with brutal honesty and emotional truth and an astounding love that goes far beyond the surface, and I will only thank him and the love we share for that. No one else need be thanked. <P>You can’t renew and refresh your love with your wife until you accept that infatuation does not make a life. It’s the day-to-day that counts. Look across the room and admire the woman that gave life to your children. Remember the woman you fell in love with. She’s the one that will hold your hand through thick and thin, good or bad. Be honest with her. Give her a chance to help make it better. And you might want to think about changing some things too. But, I would say, not in isolation. I’m only hoping that my story can show you that the tides can turn.<P>What is not said and confessed, is your own enemy. It’s amazing how giving and loving and willing loved ones can be if they’re given the chance. [H] and I have found that out through all of this. So can you.<P>Stop looking back. Just accept your mistake as simply that, and not a “life” you gave up. Cast your gaze forward and build a real life with your W. Don’t take it upon yourself or only look to her to change. Change and grow. Together. <P>P.S. I don’t want to disrupt this thread for [H]’s posts. That wasn’t my intent and I apologize if this has affected the good he’s doing here. <BR><p>[This message has been edited by [H]ow (edited June 13, 2001).]

[H]ow,<P>Not meant to flame, but how does [H] feel about you posting here? While it is interesting to hear your side of the story for purposes of clarification and just to hear the opposite side of the story, it seems to me that [H] is committed to no contact. It seems that you posting here might open the door for that contact. I'm simply concerned for the safety and integrity of MB. I'm just not sure if it's a good thing to have a MM and his former MW posting in the same place, particularly given how one of the parties feels in this case.<P>belld