Hello everyone,<P>My wife and I had a lovely weekend together. I wrote her a heartfilled letter Friday afternoon stating things like where I think I went wrong in our relationship that created the environment for the affair to occur. It was a four page letter and I gave it to her in the evening once our two kids went to sleep. She read it and began to cry near the end of it. It was the reaction I was hoping I would get from her.<P>We stayed up late and talked about us, which was something we hadn't done in a long time. It was very nice. I think I am beginning to get through to her. She started to show little bits of affection toward me out of the blue. Again, this is something I had not been on the receiving end for some time now. Usually, whenever she was at home during the affair, I initiated any affection. Looking back she always tried to avoid it with me if at all possible.<P>I remember, on Saturday I believe, we had just finished watching a movie and I was laying on her and dozing off and she stroked my hair a few times. I enjoyed that and later told her that very fact.<P>I try to be very open with her, when she does something to me that I like I let her know it, which is something new for me. Looking back I was at times one who felt his wife was a mind reader.<P>Saturday was also the first day inwhich my wife didn't feel the need to contact the OM. She came out and told me that.<P>She did however call the loser on Sunday, however, he was rude to her on the phone and she came to me and said it was a waist of a call. It was then that I showed her my kindness. She was going to suntan in the yard and I offered to put lotion on her, which she agreed to. When the OM acts like a jerk I make sure that I am there for her.<P>I went to my councellor for the first time yesterday. Things went well. She opened my eyes. It is amazing how clearly stupid you can see yourself being when you relay your story to another person. Suddenly all the signs of the affair, and the red flags that were raised, were all identified. Yet when things were happening it was as if I had a blind fold on.<P>My wife continues to see the other man, they went for a walk the past couple of nights. It angers me. I made it known to her, after my councelling session, that I disagree with her still seeing him. My councellor doesn't feel it necessary to councel the two of us until my wife decides to commit to making us work 100%, and at this point she is still in the "fog".<P>However, once we went to bed my wife came to me and began to show some affection toward me and for the first time in a long time I could see she genuinely had love for me in her eyes. She opened up and said;<P>"I know you disagree with me still seeing him, I want to assure you that we are just friends and nothing physical is going on. This may sound stupid, and you may not understand this, but I need this as part of my therapy.<P>It seems everytime I see him I begin to hate him more. I am beginning to see that he is an 'a-hole'. He is very moody. He can be fun, but that is only on rare occations, most often he is rude, and passes off as being a jerk. I am beginning to wonder what I ever saw in him. Whenever we are together we just fight, like we did tonight. One time he made me so mad that I just wanted to hit him, however I gathered myself and just said more hurtful things to him.<P>He has told me that he is ready to end things between us, and I told him over and over tonight that 'I hate him'. During that time, I am thinking that at home there lies a lovely man, who loves me dearly and would never treat me the way this other man does. I don't know if you can understand this."<P>I told my wife that I did. Only because "worthatry" predicted this would happen if I just remained patient. Things aren't over between the two of them yet. However, my wife feels the end is very near. This only benefits me because when the day comes that she completely hates his guts, I can rest assured she isn't thinking of him because she has only bad memories of him and she realized he is a jerk.<P>Tonight the OM owe my wife a dinner out for some reason. She assured me she is going there to fight with him again. She has expressed some interest in sex with me again. Tonight could be the night. She told me that when she got home yesterday from her fight/walk with the OM, that she was hoping I had left a little love note for her to read. Tonight I plan on leaving one, and I also picked up a small gift as well. The more the OM screws up the more I try to make myself more appealing, without going overboard. I try not to initiate to much, if any, affection to her. She needs to do some work too, yah know. Hopefully, with the note, gift, and some lit candles, I'll get lucky tonight!!!<P>------------------<BR>Blue Rodeo Boy<BR><-- Trust Yourself, and don't believe in any more lies. -->

BRB - good job.<P>About tonight and every tomorrow until OM is history: Hope for the best, but expect less. <P>Assume the roller coaster ride ain't over yet, but at least it looks like you're no longer riding in the front seat.<P>WAT

I take back what I said. I didn't understand the situation enough. Sorry. <P>[This message has been edited by Rodger (edited June 12, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Rodger (edited June 12, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rodger:<BR><B><BR>You need more self esteem. Do you think your wife would put up with you seeing another woman. I don't think so. She should grow up.<BR>Be a man and don't accept this nonsense. Obviously she does not have enough love for you. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Rodger, while I agree that his wife is acting like a jerk, we already know that she doesn't have enough love for bluerodeoboy. That's what Plan A is for, <B>not</B> Plan B.<P>I think bluerodeoboy is doing fine under difficult circumstances, and you would benefit from reading SAA.<P>Steve<BR>

I agree with Steve - when someone is on an 'up' and doing a really good job in saving their marriage, then you don't - I repeat DON'T - come in like a bull in a haystack and try to knock them down again. <P>BlueRodeoBoy - you are doing absolutely great, doing all the right things and the results are beginning to show. I believe that you will gain more self-respect from the knowledge that you are doing this right, and that you were strong enough to give it your best try - and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Keep up the great work!<P>hugs, Paint.

Hey bluerodeoboy:<P>I think your doing fine. What Roger has failed to see is that you are applying the MB principles (Plan A first and then Plan B if necessary). If we all went to Plan B right off the bat without laying the groundwork of Plan A then even Plan B would not guarantee she would be back...in fact it might drive her into OP arms.<P>For all we know OP and OW may well be fighting over her inability to decide what she wants...do you want to decide for her without giving her a chance to see you are a viable option? Yes, Plan A does led to a lot of fence sitting and it's hard on the BS...but there are enough of us here that are in similar situations that we realize that no pat answer is workable in all situations. Do what you feel is best in your situation....and after all...is it is a basic tenent that you do not tamper with what is working....and what you are doing seems to be working<P>Keep it up...you doing well. <P><BR>Faye

BRB<BR> You've learned something incredibly important here - your W appreciated the love letter you sent her and wants more. I found the discussion of love letters in the Mars/Venus book to be very useful (probably the only useful thing in the book). Be careful to make sure it's about how you feel (lot's of "I" statements). You can even say things are upsetting you or are making you sad but make sure you surround such statements with *lots* of love. The nice thing about a letter is that it is communication that you can put a lot of thought into and don't have to worry about making a mistake under fire. <P> I was able to really communicate with my W for first time in years (10's of years?) using love letters. The Mars/Venus book suggests adding a P.S. at the end telling how the spouse might address the issue in the love letter. I guess this is telling the Spouse how to meet some of your ENs. In Plan A you don't do that. <P>If lit candles are special to you and your W, you might want to leave out unlit candles w/matches nearby and see what she does. But, you want your letter to be a true gift. If she thinks that you have expectations it might "taint" the gift (if she's not receptive to the expectations). Maybe someone else with more experience has some thoughts along this line?<BR> <BR>You really are doing an incredible thing here. Keep it up, you seem to be gaining ground.<P> - Jeff

Blue,my friend!<BR>I just lost my lengthy post. It's probablly a good thing as I am on Rodger's side & that seems to be a minority opinion here.<BR>I truely feel for the pain you must feeling! Unfortunately, I have to try & make a living.<P>I am no expert on this plan A stuff, but isn't the NO Contact a big prerequeste?!<BR>I am sorry, it makes my stomach turn to hear about how she confides in you about going a whole day w?o talking to OM & after long walks they are now going out to dinner??!! Again, this sounds like a date to me !!<BR>Maybe I have too much pride, but don't you think other people wonder what the hell is going on when they see your W & OM on long walks, at the movies & out to dinner.<BR>I am a normally a very passive guy, but we have to have some limits here I think.<BR>I don't mean you have to be a jerk, you can be very nice but firm. <BR>Each story is different but my W has told me way more than I care to recall, but she confessed to be obsessed with this one guy & she said he was a "Jerk" -- he would stand her up & not return calls -- this made her even more determined to pursue him -- What I trying to relate is that for some women, this tuff cowboy act may be appealing & I would not be too impressed with your W's description of this guy being a jerk -- She obviously wants to see him & she is going to make up lies if she has to.<BR>It seems to me that you are reinforcing this behavior in her -- you'r Mr. Nice guy for her to cry on your shoulder about him?!! This sounds like two teenage girls talking about their boyfriend problems <BR>If you are nice, but firm about how she has to choose & if she can't do that now, she can leave for a while, you may be surprised, she could very easily choose you!!<BR>If you open the cage door & let her loose & she doesn't come back, she wasn't yours to begin with. If she returns, then you know she is yours!<BR>Are you still reading Dobson's book?<BR>Hope I'm not being too judgemental here, but I have strong feelings that you need another perspective. <BR>I strongly suggest finding a hands on support person --Pastor? Friend?<P>My prayers are with you!<BR>HH

BRB,<P>You have infinitely more patience than I would in the same circumstances! It's very good that things are working out to your favor, as the OM is now acting like a jerk. Seems like the EMR is on its way out the door. My question: do you have any feelings of resentment because you are having to be kind to your W when she is still involved with the OM? If so, please find an outlet - talk to a counselor, write in a journal. What I found out about Plan A is that I was only able to do it for one month, after which I simply could not tolerate it anymore and gave H the boot until he got down off the fence. I was harboring too much resentment.<P>Please watch out for this ... sometimes the resentment builds up and turns into some major LB's!<P>belld

Sorry about my previous post. I was only expressing that I didn't think I would have as much patience as you. You are putting up with a very difficult situation so I must commend you instead.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hurrian Hoosier:<BR><B>I am no expert on this plan A stuff, but isn't the NO Contact a big prerequeste?!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No.<P>WAT

Blue, <BR>I noticed Rodger retracted his sentiments & so I may climbing out on a limb here. As I said, I'm not the expert on plan A -- you definately want to be nice & not annoying to your W!<BR>I just wish you the best & hope you can find peace -- we all have our own perspectives & are not you -- yu have to do what you feel comfortable doing.<BR>Dobson's book talks about thinking of the dating game & how you may act to have the most appeal -- Sometimes, always being there in total, unconditional love & support role is not appealing to all. Sometimes, a bit of the unknown and the strong, silent, confident, independent type has big appeal. <BR>Peace be with you!<BR>HH

Many of you have mixed views. I don't need to justify my actions. However, under the circumstances I feel I am doing the right thing here.<P>Does it bother me that they still see each other? Of course it does. When I know they are out walking that is when I am writing feverishly in my journal expressing my anger, rage, etc. I have mentioned my views about the situation to her, she knows where I stand. Ultimately, though, she needs to make a decision, when she is ready.<P>Lets clear things up. When they walk together it isn't romantic. They walk together and fight. They are going to dinner tonight to settle some things, to fight again, to a Boston Pizza. He is paying for the meal because my wife, before I knew anything, took him out many times with our money that we could have used elsewhere. <P>I can boot her out, and it may come to that. I am certainly prepared to do that in the near future, especially if things between the two of them get better, where they aren't lashing out at one another. If that occurs and she feels she can maintain a relationship with him "as friends" for the rest of our lives, it won't happen. I won't let it. I can't take it. She will have to choose between me or OM at some point.<P>My position is, as long as I can remain patient, and these two morons (sorry, my W, but in this case that is what you are)continue to fight like cats and dogs, why should I interfere with their relationship's demise? I don't want to appear as the bad guy. One of you people mentioned to me that by demanding "no contact" and booting her out, she may turn back to the OM and see me as the "jerk". Right now the OM is doing a fine job of it on his own. Creating bad memories that ultimately will make her continue to think about whatever possessed her to like him at all in the first place.<P>I'm not some love sick puppy anymore. I don't say anything like "I need you at home", or "I miss you when your gone and can't live without you". I used to say that. Now I offer small bits of affection when it seems right, but I tend to wait for her to make the moves. I have done it too much. She needs to work for my affection.<P>Yes there maybe a possibility we could get physical tonight, am I expecting it? No. Will I initiate it? No. As you can see my position has changed completely from a week ago when all I wanted to do was have sex with her. Now, I am waiting for her to make the move on me. Only then will I know that she isn't just providing me with her services to get me off her back, which is how things were for some months now, she may actually love me. Someone else told me that inorder for a woman to want to have sex she must feel a "connection" with the man she intends to be intimate with. Therefore, if she makes a move on me, obviously, in her mind a connection between us may be developing again.<P>I will remain patient, as long as things between her and OM continue to be rocky, however if I notice, things improving I will lay down the law. Believe me I am monitoring everything she does, she doesn't even know it. I am truely acting as the silent "active" observer.<P>------------------<BR>Blue Rodeo Boy<BR><-- Trust Yourself, and don't believe in any more lies. -->

To those that care, I am on chapter 8 of Dobson's book.<P>------------------<BR>Blue Rodeo Boy<BR><-- Trust Yourself, and don't believe in any more lies. -->

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bluerodeoboy:<BR><B>To those that care, I am on chapter 8 of Dobson's book.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>BRB,<BR>Thanks for update! <BR>Sounds like you have firm strategy & confidence in your approach, which I believe is a very important thing! <BR>This stuff gets real crazy at times & please know we're pulling for you!<BR>I for one am not the best communicator to my W & I too am wrestling big time on how to handle certain things!<P>Have you been reading Harley's stuff as well?<BR>I am wondering if there are things there that may help your W with her delima with OM?<P>Take care of yourself!<BR>HH<P>

BRB - this dinner tonight is bothersome. Maybe you should offer to go with them to referee? <P>your wife: Whadaya mean you're not a jerk?<BR>OM: You call me a jerk again and I'll......<BR>you: Personal foul!!!!!!!!!! 15 yards!!

Haven't started Harley's stuff yet, 'cause I haven't received it. Both books, "Surviving an Affair" and the other popular one, for which I can't remember the title to, are on order at a local book seller. They should be ready for pick up in about a week or so.<P>My councellor gave me another book to read called "After the Affair", by Janis Abrahms Spring. Any of you read it?<P>------------------<BR>Blue Rodeo Boy<BR><-- Trust Yourself, and don't believe in any more lies. -->

BRB,<BR>So much to read, discuss ... I was wondering about the MB website & articles there as immediate thing.<BR>You've read enough of Dobson's book to know that seperation is not always what he promotes & again everyones exact circumstance is different & also understand it is easier for us not on the firing line to offer ideas. Just booting her out without serious heart to heart would be cruel & inhuman -- but sometimes we need a crisis of sorts -- in friendly, but firm way.<BR>I am a big conflict avoider, so these kind of conversations with my W are real tuff. I get to my point, I assume when you say your W & OM are to "setttle some things", does that mean the objective is for her to break it off with him?<P>This is where I thought the Harley stuff might help. I didn't find this until after my wife & I reunited after brief seperation, but from what I've read on post here, Harley talks about a No Contact Letter -- which is sometimes delivered in person -- I was under the impression that was when the recovery process begins.<BR>I am suggesting, if possible, wouldn't it help if you & your W agreed on the objective of tonight's dinner (to break off contact), to talk about strategies to do this & rehearse. Harley stuff might help?<BR>I have read where sometimes BS & WS both meet with OP to deliver this no contact message.<BR>I get the sense worthatry is being a little sacastic about refereeing -- as others have mentioned, you may want to prepare for worse, while we all hope for the best!<BR>My experience has made me a bit paranoid, but what if this "to settle things" agenda turns into, "Let's make up" <P>I don't want to be mr. alarmist here, but if I were you (and I know that I'm not!), I would see if anyone could give you a charity babysitting jesture & go to this Pizza place for a freindly check up on their "settlement" issues -- if nothing else your W may need some help to get out of an akward arguement in public?!<P>I guess some may say this would be intrusive, but this is your marriage too & you have some rights to do what you think is right.<BR>Hope I'm not confussing the issues too much! <BR>Peace be with you!<BR>HH

You have sparked a new approach. The next time she opens up to tell me about how much of an [censored] he is I will ask her, what it is that is keeping her from breaking things off? It is a question I would like somewhat of an answer too.<P>------------------<BR>Blue Rodeo Boy<BR><-- Trust Yourself, and don't believe in any more lies. -->

Hey Roger:<P>Me either, I kicked him out over his fence sitting....but my Plan A effort never worked this well...he was too deep in the fog...that's why each situation is different and no one answer the right one. <P>Bluerodeoboy:<P>I'm amazed at how much you have progressed in the last week or so...you floored me in your last post...could not be as supportive as you are....but your head appears to be on straight with how much you will take...and preparations for any further steps...I guess the real question is "How much can you take before you start LBing?"<P>The openness of your wife's attentions to the OM are a bit upsetting to me too...don't know if I could take that much knowledge about their situation...but if you can...more power to you. I know Harley recommends be sympathic if you can during withdrawal (although technically WS is not in withdrawal, these may be early phases of it) and try to listen to their complaints about OM (if you can stand it)...it would take a bigger person then I am to listen to that...apparently you are that person...and I admire you for that.<P>My only concern is being drawn into it too much...but where do you draw the line....like Belldandy said...take care that you are not ignoring and burying you resentments about this....but the journal seems to be a good ideal...or come here and let it out...just make sure it is released somewhere or at some point you will have enough and LB big time. <P>Faye