new at this, I have posted under "Infidelity" - "just found out....." same subject as above, should we live together: I was told to post it in this section, but do not know how, to transfer, or do I have to retype same stuff, please read, and need advise, it is only getting worse for me, now he is not coming, taking a few things here and there, but yet said he is not moving out because I can't afford him to?

How long has this been going on? Of course you know that you can not live like this forever. You say you can't afford it without his finances. He will have to support his children financially so why couldn't you afford it? He knows that he has you where he wants you and that you are too afraid to do anything to shake things up. It is time to put your foot down and stop turning the other cheek. He is blaming you for everything which is common when spouses cheat, they need to blame someone and they sure are not going to blame themselves. But his attitude is bad and getting worse day by day, if he won't stop contact w/OW, or he won't go to counseling then I suggest a Plan B, and talk to a lawyer about your rights.

Generally the chances of reconciliation are much higher if the WS does not move out.<P>It is unfortunately not the case that the WS is required to support the children to any great extent. I know this doesn't apply to you, since you only have 2 kids, but in my state the NCP is only required to support the first 3 kids. If you are lucky, the 4th may be supported in part. And if the NCP loses his job, as my H did over a year ago, then you are really scr**. Once the WS moves in with the OW, the children are no longer a priority for them. And don't expect much if any spousal support - in my state, anyway, you can get either spousal support or child support, but not both, unless the NCP is filthy rich. <P>There is one thing worse than living with a H who is having an affair, and that is living in poverty. Nothing else really matters if you are at risk of becoming homeless, and aren't sure how you are going to feed your kids.

I don't know what state you live in but on the East Coast, BOTH PARENTS MUST SUPPORT THE CHILDREN THAT THEY HAVE CREATED. Even if one is an absent parent they must pay....the deadbeat dad rules are much more heavier than they use to be. Nellie, I don't know what type of lawyer you had or what state you live in, but there is no way, a parent that is the biological parent not made to pay for child support, unless they have waived all parental rights to that child.

Still new at this! Thanks for your reply. It has been going on, that I noticed, for about 6-7 weeks, to my knowledge. Now since this was a deal that started during my daughter's tball season, who knows when it really started. Our season began in March, but I started noticing these certian signs about Mayish. I do have two children, only one is his, which is my daughther, and he raised my son, who is 10 1/2, since the age of 9 months. I live in the state of Texas. I understand that he knows he has me cornered, but it is the fear of the unknown to me. Can I or can't I do it without him. Yes it is getting worse day by day. Although, his mom tells me he will be moving in with his uncle, but not until we get some sort of plan worked out, but even then, he is never home early and sober enough to talk about it, or he just isn't even home at all. So how do I talk to him about what needs to be done, especially in a civil manner. I am afraid. Although he has never been violent towards me before, even the other two times he has left me, but when he is drunk, you just can't tell when he will blow up or something. He does refuse to go to counseling, he even refuses to discuss the matter any more. He says he doesn't want to talk about it. And yes he is trying to blame me, he even tries to find me doing something wrong, or catch me with someone else. H still contacts with OW, and I just found out that OWH has been kicked out of their home as well. OWH is keeping close tabs on my H, but only because OWH suspects it as well. OWH and myself had discussed this situation, but never got anywhere, because neither one of us has actually seen them mooching on each other yet. SO what is PLAN B, and I work with lawyers, although practice in bankuptcy, but they have some knowledge of that stuff, but they as well told me to ride it out. To let him in and out as he pleases as long as he paid for bills too. Now if next month, he doesn't pay for the usual and customary bills, they said, then give him the boot. But yet, it is still hard to see him doing all this crap. Again, need help with plan B, since fairly fresh at this?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by trying2_4give:<BR><B>How long has this been going on? Of course you know that you can not live like this forever. You say you can't afford it without his finances. He will have to support his children financially so why couldn't you afford it? He knows that he has you where he wants you and that you are too afraid to do anything to shake things up. It is time to put your foot down and stop turning the other cheek. He is blaming you for everything which is common when spouses cheat, they need to blame someone and they sure are not going to blame themselves. But his attitude is bad and getting worse day by day, if he won't stop contact w/OW, or he won't go to counseling then I suggest a Plan B, and talk to a lawyer about your rights.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><p>[This message has been edited by stranger under same roof (edited June 18, 2001).]

How does that make my chances of reconciliation greater? I see all this and it makes me hate him for everything he is putting me and my children through. He has no care if he is hurting us in any way. ALl i really want is for things to go back to the way they were, at least I thought we were happy. But then I go back and think, this is the 3rd time he has done this to me, is it a track record, if I do take him back when he is done playing, how long is it going to last this time, 2-3 years, or 4-6 months, and then here we go again, he will start going out drinking and having affairs and so forth, and I will end up where I am now, hurting for me and my children again. Should I put myself through that again? But I would take him back in a heartbeat, that is the bad thing? That is why I am so confused? Should I take him back if the chance arises, or should I drop him? HELP<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nellie1:<BR><B>Generally the chances of reconciliation are much higher if the WS does not move out.<P>It is unfortunately not the case that the WS is required to support the children to any great extent. I know this doesn't apply to you, since you only have 2 kids, but in my state the NCP is only required to support the first 3 kids. If you are lucky, the 4th may be supported in part. And if the NCP loses his job, as my H did over a year ago, then you are really scr**. Once the WS moves in with the OW, the children are no longer a priority for them. And don't expect much if any spousal support - in my state, anyway, you can get either spousal support or child support, but not both, unless the NCP is filthy rich. <P>There is one thing worse than living with a H who is having an affair, and that is living in poverty. Nothing else really matters if you are at risk of becoming homeless, and aren't sure how you are going to feed your kids. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

trying2_forgive,<P>This is not a case of deadbeat NCP's. My H pays the child support he is required to pay - but what he is required to pay is nowhere near enough to provide for the children. He, on the other hand, does not have to worry too much because the OW is relatively wealthy.<P>In my state, the amount of child support the NCP is based on the number of children - but for any more than 3 children the percentage is the same as for three kids. The judge, can, at his discretion, adjust this amount up or down by a maximum of 3%, so in effect a judge can require that child support be paid for the 4th child. The percentage is also based on the NCP's income, and the age of the oldest child, and the amount is adjusted based on the relative incomes of the two parents. There is NO provision for additional child support for child #5, #6, etc..<P>In addition, judges limit the amount of a NCP's income that can be allocated to child support - so in theory a man could father a dozen children by a dozen different women and pay little more than he would have to pay one wife with 3 kids.<P>And unless the NCP is rich, in which case the guidelines do not apply, spousal support is rarely awarded if significant child support has been awarded, because the primary consideration is that the NCP have enough to live on. Whether or not his children do is irrelevant.

Stranger, I can't really advise you on this situation. You know that H is an habitual cheater and drinker and yet you ask what to do. I think you know what needs to be done. Plan B is a NO CONTACT between BS and WS, so that BS can protect the love that they have for WS. It is also a way of showing WS what life is like without having BS in their day to day life (others can give better advice on Plan B as I no experience in Plan B, just know the fundamentals from reading here). Your H has never had to live with the consequences of his actions because you always took him back after each affair. It seems your lawyers are telling you what to do for FINANCIAL REASONS, in other words they are just saying DO NOTHING AS LONG AS THE BILLS ARE PAID. The only problem with that is that your HEART is involved and you can't sit back and do nothing or it will only get worse, because H will do whatever he wants knowing you won't do anything to stand up for yourself and your children.

last night OWH called me and told me that OW and my H had been together on a thursday night, OWH has been keeping tabs on my H and OWH is out to catch them. OW is still calling my H and her H as well, telling each of them different stories. so now I found out that OWH is still sleeping with her, and OW is sleeping with my H as well. But OWH is only doing it because he thinks my H will get mad, or something, I am not sure what he is thinking. Last night everything got out of hand, my H was pissed because OWH is calling me and telling me stuff that he has discovered. WS has admitted to his step-father, that something was going on, but only because OWH was about to beat my H. The were ready to strap it on, there was threats about guns and so forth, then my H step-father tells my H, to calm down, to think things through, as far as, "is this worth losing jobs over". Is it worth going to prison or something. He thought it through and decided it was not worth it. H came home and wanted to talk, but was very high and drunk, and in no state to talk anything over. He was pissed off. He pushed me and accused me of having something going on with OWH just because he was calling me and telling me stuff. I told my H to leave, but he will not, and for the reason, he says, is because he knows I can't make it alone. Until I figure out what I need to do, he will stay in the same house, living in his little room. He said if I wanted him out to call the police on him. No I didn't. But asked him to leave again. He want my vehicle, and he wants me to get another one, then he will leave the house, but until then, he is staying, coming in at any hour of the night and so forth. I am ready to have him gone so bad, it just makes my life way to miserable to have him being there. He makes me sick to my stomach every day. He said he want me to figure something out so he doesn't have to come home and see my face any more. So I told him, not to come in anymore. No dice. He said after all this was overwith, he was going to move somewhere that I could never find him and never have to see him again. I thought that was a good plan, although with us having a daughter, I'm not sure that would ever work, unless he decided not to see her at all. At the time, she doesn't even want to be close to him. I am ready to go on with my life, but it is like he is being hardheaded or something. Where can I read about Plan B, on this website? Stranger

It would be a waste of time to present your H with a Plan B letter when he is still in the house and has no intention of leaving. It would just be considered an empty threat. Your H is behaving this way because you allow it to happen and he knows you won't do anything. He has the control over your life and until u decide u have really had enough u will take back control over your life and not play the victim. Easier said than done when u still love your spouse, but that day will come. Sorry if this hurts to hear, but it is not a time to sugar coat anything. Keep coming/posting here to gain strength and insight.

thanks "trying". so i am ready to take control. i think after last night, not being able to sleep at all, just thinking he might come and harm me, sort of woke me up. so do you think i am in the right to start packing up his belongings tonight and just telling him to leave? should I take all his belongings to him mom's house and have him pick up there? the only thing is that he still has access to my home and my truck, and to the alarms as well. how do i get my keys back for my home and truck with out him putting up a fight. he isn't going to just hand them over. my home i know i can get rekeyed. but my truck is a little more complicated. then it starts getting too expensive. my budget is going to be very very tight. and i am not sure if he will decide to help me pay for bills. you see there I go again worrying about my finances. so should i let him take the truck? that is my only transportation for the time being. he has his company vehicle that he uses as personal as well, he bought magnetic tags to cover up the stickers that are on the truck doors, fenders and so forth, so it doesn't look like a company truck, then he has his 1980 jeep cj5, his toy. uninsured and unreliable to drive. my truck is a 1998 with a hefty payment. he wants me to buy a $2500 car and give him the truck, and i keep the home. what to do about that. back to the subject. my keys, how do I get them back. i though of getting them of the key rings while he was asleep, but let me tell you, he guards his, wallet, his keys and his cell phone with his life.

I wish i had all the answers to your questions but i don't. People here can give you information or suggestions but in no way can we say what to do next, step by step. You know your H and you know what he is capable of. Are both your names on the house and the car? If so, then legally you can't do much by getting him out of the house unless he has been violent towards you. If everything is in your name, then you have every legal right to have him off your property and hand over keys to the car. You may have to physically take them off the key ring for him if he won't willingly do so. He may say go ahead and call the police but he knows you will be too afraid to do so. But if push comes to shove you can have a restraining order put on him not coming to the house or anywhere near you and to hand over your keys. REMEMBER, if the house and car are in both names or his alone then legally you will have problems getting him out of the house and to give you the keys to the car. If you are truly ready for Plan B then make sure that you understand what Plan B is about. You have every right to be worried about finances, hell everyone needs a roof over their head for them and their children. But u can seek child-support. The main thing that I am getting from your story is that your H knows he can do whatever he wants to you because you are too afraid to do anything by way of sticking up for yourself. I am not saying THROW THE BUM OUT! But I am saying that obviously what you have done in the past has not worked, so it is time to do something new. Please think about your choices and seek free counsel for your rights.

Stranger,<BR>Wow, you are certainly stronger than I am. My H has told people how mean I am. Unfortunately, he may be right. But that is a learned survival skill. These are the skills you will have to adapt to have the life you want. You obviously do not want a room mate that disrespects you. H's Affairs have shown you that disrespect. He thinks he can and should be able to drink, party and screw anyone and there will never be consequences for his own actions, because there haven't been any in the past. I am familier with Texas family law and understand that child support is steep. Plan a 'lifestyle' that you can acheive for yourself and your children without his income. This may mean looking for another job and relocating. If that is not an option for you, be sure you have all your financial records straight and in order. Get a copy of your credit report. This is what you will need to get the finacial support you need. As far as your H coming and going as he pleases - drunk as it were(I've been there. H said he drank so he could come home to face me. I know it was to be able to face himself)change the locks and box his things. Be sure he knows this when he is sober. Let him know you still love him and want a life with him, but you will NOT live like this. Don't tell him how to change or what he is doing wrong or how much he is hurting you. All of that will come in time. You must decide what you will and will not accept from your H. If peace and happiness in your life are what you want, find out what you are willing to do and do without to get that.<BR>I don't know if this is much help, but I know how you feel and am praying for all who are in this situation.<BR>JuJu

thanks for your reply "trying". i think i am more than sure i am ready for PLAN B. Now how can I read about it, where do I go to learn more about what plan B involves so I can truly know I am ready for it or not. the house is only under my name, H name is nowhere on the house papers, as far as the truck, yes, both of ours are on there. yesterday, was a very bad day. my truck went out on me, it was the alternator. i had a friend check it out for me and took it to a parts store and told me what it was. now i told H's mom that my truck was down and needed some help. she told my H and he said he would not fix it, that it was not his problem anymore, unless i was ready to hand it over. after our sunday quarrel, i had told him to leave the home. he has decided to do so. he will start picking up his items as i am at work. H is going on to carry a relationship with OW. they are frequently seeing each other and talking and well, you know the rest. OWH kept calling me and telling me everything he would find out about his W and my H. he caught them and all that stuff, and they, of course, still deny it. so I told OWH, to stop calling me and telling me anything. if he found them, just to keep it to himself. i don't want to know anything anymore. is that a good idea? i really don't want to know. need some more information on what is plan B.

thanks JuJu. although i don't feel am very strong. everything still hurts, but i just take it day by day. some days are better than others, some days are just down right bad. my H says i am mean too, but i started telling myself, don't blame myself. it wasn't my fault. it was just an excuse he made up to make me look bad instead of himself. he wants to make it my bad and not his. he does think he can do whatever, and is doing it, but i'm not sure its with whoever, i just think OW is the main role right now. the thing that is so sad, is that OW is married with three kids, and H and i are married with two kids. both had good families, so sad that from one day to another it can all just be gone, wiped out. changing my lifestyle will be hard, especially when it was something you never had to worry about. now with about $2500 less a month, that is pretty steep. i have sat down and figured my financial situation and it doesn't look good. i am short about $800, and that is just to make the bills and living expenses, that cuts going out to eat and fun shopping, which i can do without. but i am ready to move on. i do still love him and which we could work things out, but like you said, he is used to me not doing anything about it. i have kicked him out two other times, but it lasted for about 3-4 months and he would come back. but you know, this time i kicked him out again, but deep inside my heart, i'm not sure if i want him to come back this time. maybe there is someone out there that is better for me. someone i don't have to worry if they will do this to me again. because what if H does come back after several months, we do great, then 2-3 years later here i am again. no, i don't want that. i don't want to live in that fear either. i am ready for a new life. i just have to put everything behind me. and even though i know i still love him and want to make things better, do you think its good to let him know i still love him, won't that get to his head, give him and even bigger ego, and make him think, well she still loves me and he has knowledge that he is still getting to me because of him knowing and me telling him that i still love him, when in reality i do, or do i think i do! strange and confusing even to myself. gosh, this is all so hard still. thanks, for your prayers, my family needs them.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JuJu:<BR><B>Stranger,<BR>Wow, you are certainly stronger than I am. My H has told people how mean I am. Unfortunately, he may be right. But that is a learned survival skill. These are the skills you will have to adapt to have the life you want. You obviously do not want a room mate that disrespects you. H's Affairs have shown you that disrespect. He thinks he can and should be able to drink, party and screw anyone and there will never be consequences for his own actions, because there haven't been any in the past. I am familier with Texas family law and understand that child support is steep. Plan a 'lifestyle' that you can acheive for yourself and your children without his income. This may mean looking for another job and relocating. If that is not an option for you, be sure you have all your financial records straight and in order. Get a copy of your credit report. This is what you will need to get the finacial support you need. As far as your H coming and going as he pleases - drunk as it were(I've been there. H said he drank so he could come home to face me. I know it was to be able to face himself)change the locks and box his things. Be sure he knows this when he is sober. Let him know you still love him and want a life with him, but you will NOT live like this. Don't tell him how to change or what he is doing wrong or how much he is hurting you. All of that will come in time. You must decide what you will and will not accept from your H. If peace and happiness in your life are what you want, find out what you are willing to do and do without to get that.<BR>I don't know if this is much help, but I know how you feel and am praying for all who are in this situation.<BR>JuJu </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><p>[This message has been edited by stranger under same roof (edited June 20, 2001).]

it has been 2 days since my H moved out. he has been taking his belongings as I am at work or at my daughter's practices. i have been able to eat a little more and actually have a good restful sleep the past two days. i feel somewhat relieved that he has moved out, but yet still miss him and wonder about him and OW. is this normal? he still has not taken everything that is his, mostly his major clothing, little stuff is still here and there. I have been planning on packing everything and putting in the garage for him to take when he picks up his extra vehicle. or should i just pack it all up and send it to his mothers house where he is keeping everything that doesn't fit at his apt.?

it has been 2 days since my H moved out. he has been taking his belongings as I am at work or at my daughter's practices. i have been able to eat a little more and actually have a good restful sleep the past two days. i feel somewhat relieved that he has moved out, but yet still miss him and wonder about him and OW. is this normal? he still has not taken everything that is his, mostly his major clothing, little stuff is still here and there. I have been planning on packing everything and putting in the garage for him to take when he picks up his extra vehicle. or should i just pack it all up and send it to his mothers house where he is keeping everything that doesn't fit at his apt.? <BR>

Don't lift a thing, let H do the dirty work by packing. When you have some extra cash, i would suggest changing the locks, so that H won't come and go as he pleases. This will be a struggle but you have gotten through this b4 and guess what you LIVED! This time you must remember to MAKE the CHANGES withing yourself. Don't try to change anything about your H, it won't work. Change Yourself. He has left b4 for a few months and has always come back to you with nothing changing except the calendar date. This site is where you will learn about Plan B, it is all over the beginning topics of this site, can't be missed. Read everything on this site and you will know what you have to do next. This is a scary time for you, a lot of us have been where you are, worried about money, but you must also know to seek free legal counsel or just apply for CHILDSUPPORT. Do everything legally by the book, he is not the same man you married, he is in a fog and has been for years according to your posts. You will see some strange things happen, but just sit back and don't REACT to his ACTIONS, it is what he will want if he wants to use anything against. Please go to the homepage of this site and begin there.

Almost a week since H has been out. I feel better, not as sad and upset. "Don't lift a thing"?, he still has stuff left in the house, i understand letting him do the dirty work himself, but I really rather not see anything of his laying around, constant reminders of him. how can I do away with that?, i am so glad i found this website, i have read alot of these posts and have posted myself, it has been very helpful through this situation of mine and understand that I am not alone, although it seems like it when someone is going through this stuff. so now, i am not a "stranger under same roof", how do I change my topic, of "should we continue to live together?" since we are not living together anymore, now my agendas are a little different, how can I change that? please enlighten, i still have lots to ask. thanks<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by trying2_4give:<BR><B>Don't lift a thing, let H do the dirty work by packing. When you have some extra cash, i would suggest changing the locks, so that H won't come and go as he pleases. This will be a struggle but you have gotten through this b4 and guess what you LIVED! This time you must remember to MAKE the CHANGES withing yourself. Don't try to change anything about your H, it won't work. Change Yourself. He has left b4 for a few months and has always come back to you with nothing changing except the calendar date. This site is where you will learn about Plan B, it is all over the beginning topics of this site, can't be missed. Read everything on this site and you will know what you have to do next. This is a scary time for you, a lot of us have been where you are, worried about money, but you must also know to seek free legal counsel or just apply for CHILDSUPPORT. Do everything legally by the book, he is not the same man you married, he is in a fog and has been for years according to your posts. You will see some strange things happen, but just sit back and don't REACT to his ACTIONS, it is what he will want if he wants to use anything against. Please go to the homepage of this site and begin there.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>