We are 3 months into recovery and it is not that bad but not as much progress/changes as I would like to see (of course!)<BR>My W (WS) seems to be out of fog. <BR>She told me that I hug, kiss etc. (all the things I do to be more romantic and affectionate) too much. She likes the way I was before. But I know that A happened because she had low self esteem and she had low self esteem because she didn't think I liked her, loved her etc.<BR>I am doing these things now not because I have to but because that was the way I always felt about her I just thought that she knew this and I didn't have to show.<BR>So , can it be too much affection? (I guess it can if she says so but I don't think I overdoing it, it's just a bit more than before juust enough to show her that I care about her a lot).<BR>Any help is greatly appreciated.<BR>

.<p>[This message has been edited by jdmac1 (edited August 04, 2001).]

Hey Ivan,<P>It's wonderful that you are learning to show your affection more. What a great guy!!!<P>But it sounds like you have hit a dilemma. Your way of expressing your affection is different from how your wife wants to be shown affection. Has she given you any ideas of how she would like it shown? You might want to have that conversation with her.<P>I’ll give you a hint from a woman’s perspective. My H is a very affectionate man. He’s always shown his affections with tons of hugs and kisses. I love it. But there was something missing…. Romance. Women are suckers for romance. Love is the emotion and romance is the emotion put into action.<P>Let me give you an example. A couple of months ago I was having a particularly bad day at work. To top it all off I was falling apart emotionally because of the emotional roller coaster (D-day was March 22). Before heading home I called and told my husband about how terrible I felt. I arrived home to find that he’d drawn a hot bath for me, complete with bubbles and oils. He met me at the door gave me a hug and walked me to our bathroom. Told me to just take a nice long bath while he cooked dinner and fed our three children. While I was soaking, with the jets on, he brought me a glass of wine. That day I took the longest, most wonderful bath. I felt like a queen. When I did finally emerge I felt much better. The kids were fed. He and I then ate a quiet dinner together. Ah…. Smiling with the memory. Now that is romance and that is showing love. I can tell you that he got some many deposits in his love bank that night…. <P>So where did my husband get this great idea? Oh he’s a normal guy so these things do not necessarily pop into his head. (But he is great!!.) The idea is right out of a book I’d like to suggest to you. “1001 Ways to be Romantic” by Gregory Godek. It’s a national best seller. It’s wonderful, fun book with tons of ideas on how to express love and affection in a romantic way. The day I bought the book, we sat for a couple of hours reading it aloud to each other. It was fun and reminded us of how much we like to play together. Now we keep the book on a table in our bedroom. Once in a while one of us will take a peek to find a way to romance and surprise the other.<P>And there is a great side affect. See, for women Romance = Sex. So you have nothing to loose and plenty to gain from trying it.<P>This is just one woman’s perspective.<P><BR>Z<P>P.S. Take a look at my byline below. It is the romantic expression of love that Shakespeare is talking about. That's why I chose that one.<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare<P>[This message has been edited by zorweb (edited June 16, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by zorweb (edited June 16, 2001).]

Just a thought guys but could it be that your equating affection with hugging and kissing (as a prelude to sex perhaps) and she's wants something different. Affection might mean hugging and kissing to you but it might mean flowers, cards, helping around the house, quiet conversations without the TV, giving her your full attention when you speak to her....little signs of appreciation and affection...along with the physical signs...she'll like those too.<P>When I think of affection these are the terms I think in...not in merely physical terms...and because physical affection is usually men's way of expressing love they don't always understand that the little signs have to come first for a woman...then they'll get the big prize. <P>Faye

Hey, Zorweb, two for one, huh. I guess great minds think alike...at least female minds. <P>I gotta get a copy of that book.<P>Faye<BR><p>[This message has been edited by buffy (edited June 16, 2001).]

Yep buffy, two for one.. <P>Ivan and Jdmac1, I think you have your answer....<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

.<p>[This message has been edited by jdmac1 (edited August 04, 2001).]

jdmac,<P>Well it sounds like you are already doing the the right things. <P>Has it been since there was no contact with the OM? Maybe your wife just needs time to come to terms with things. I do have to say that I cannot believe that she tells you things like wanting to see OM one more time. But then I just do not get the WS mindset and can hardly believe some of the things I've read on this web site.<P>We never did really go through a Plan A or B. Instead it was like we went dirctly to no contact and recovery. How do you do it? I am so amazed at the strength you and others show here to save your marriage. <P>Z<BR>

Ivan,<P>Maybe what your wife needs sometimes is just some "alone" time. I don't know what her employment status is or if you have kids, but I know that I work in a profession where I am with people all day every day. I come home and I have kids who need this or that. My husband is always wanting to go out to eat, to a movie or something. This is really hard on me. Sometimes just his presence is hard, even if he is doing something nice like rubbing my shoulders. Sometimes his affection is hard to take because I am still feeling so hurt from all the things we've gone through and I just need time. Anyway, I don't know if this helps or not; I'm just trying to say that sometimes even affection is a burdan to deal with.

Thanks zorweb, jdmac1, buffy,fighting_spirit:<P>Lots of great comments. Unfortunately, I have to run so I don't have enough time to answer, just wanted to say I appreciate the help.<BR>Zorweb: I bought that book (1001 ways ...) after you suggested it to me before and I used some of the things, but as jdmac1 says looks like she doesn't like it that much, I think it must still be some side effects of her affair. Is it better to wait till she is fully emotionally with me before I push all the romantic things? Or is it like catch 22, she needs romance to be emotionally with me? I just suspect that she still feels guilt/OM etc. so she is afraid to respond to the things that I do for her. And of course there is this communication problem so she doesn't tell me too much of what she is thinking..... I'll keep fighting (don't know how else to call this)...<BR>I see some of the things that fighting_spirit is describing ... looks like she needs more time to process everything.<BR>The problem is I don't know what is the best way to go: romance? affection? leave some space for her? etc.<BR>Thanks again everyone, I'll check back later.

Ivan, <P>Sorry that I misunderstood your original post here. I did not recall that you were the person I'd posted to before on this issue. Don't throw the book out yet, hopefully, once your wife has licked her wounds for a sufficient amount of time you'll get a chance to use it more.<P>You said: "I see some of the things that fighting_spirit is describing ... looks like she needs more time to process everything. The problem is I don't know what is the best way to go: romance? affection? leave some space for her? etc."<P>I read about WS here all the time who seem to wallow in their emotional state. Like you I don't understand where they are comming from. Probably because I have not had to deal with it.. thank goodness. However, I think that there are people here giving you some good advice about how to handle it. She apparently does need some space. In reference to your other post, not sure I'd kick her out yet. Three months is a very short time. You have an entire life time to love each other. If you were to view her current state as a sickness, it might be easier to see that she need nurturing. Nurturing of the sort that lets her have the time and space to find herself and heal. She is probably suffering from the loss of what ever it was that OM gave her as well as guilt, shame, and anger at herself from having the affair. Those are heavy pills to swollow. <P>What I find interesting here is that the example I gave of a romantic thing my H did for me actually might be the type of thing she needs from you. I know that on the day he did that I needed to be by myself. I needed to lick my wounds, cry a little, contemplate what his affairs meant to me. So him taking all responsibilty for dinner, kids etc. And the simple jester of filling the bath were very nurturing without being smothering.<P>If someone had the flu would you cook them a banquet? No you would fix a thin nurturing soup for them. <P>Just my thoughts,<P>Z<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Zorweb,<BR>You have an amazing feeling of these things. You give me tons of useful information as well as other people that replied. I can take so much from each post ... it's great.<BR>I understand completely what you are saying and I try different things on different levels and it is most of the time like "Ok, that's nice what you have done ...". I hope it registers somewhere in their head and one day they can use this info. On the other hand , I do it for myself too, I become a better person from all this... it's as you are saying, so hard to understand this sickness ... she is not with OM and she know she will not be ... he is 20 years older ... she wants to have our family but still she doesn't want to fully accept nice things that are given to her..... but I guess it takes time and I should give her more space .... it's just painful to watch that's all.<BR>Thanks again zorweb and everyone!<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by zorweb:<BR><B>Ivan, <P>Sorry that I misunderstood your original post here. I did not recall that you were the person I'd posted to before on this issue. Don't throw the book out yet, hopefully, once your wife has licked her wounds for a sufficient amount of time you'll get a chance to use it more.<P>You said: "I see some of the things that fighting_spirit is describing ... looks like she needs more time to process everything. The problem is I don't know what is the best way to go: romance? affection? leave some space for her? etc."<P>I read about WS here all the time who seem to wallow in their emotional state. Like you I don't understand where they are comming from. Probably because I have not had to deal with it.. thank goodness. However, I think that there are people here giving you some good advice about how to handle it. She apparently does need some space. In reference to your other post, not sure I'd kick her out yet. Three months is a very short time. You have an entire life time to love each other. If you were to view her current state as a sickness, it might be easier to see that she need nurturing. Nurturing of the sort that lets her have the time and space to find herself and heal. She is probably suffering from the loss of what ever it was that OM gave her as well as guilt, shame, and anger at herself from having the affair. Those are heavy pills to swollow. <P>What I find interesting here is that the example I gave of a romantic thing my H did for me actually might be the type of thing she needs from you. I know that on the day he did that I needed to be by myself. I needed to lick my wounds, cry a little, contemplate what his affairs meant to me. So him taking all responsibilty for dinner, kids etc. And the simple jester of filling the bath were very nurturing without being smothering.<P>If someone had the flu would you cook them a banquet? No you would fix a thin nurturing soup for them. <P>Just my thoughts,<P>Z<P><BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Hi Guys:<P>Well, it certainly seems if you are showing her affection that she should be able to appreciate...but there is still a problem. <P>In reading this I was struck by how similar this was to a situation I had in college. I met a very unusual boy who was filled with hearts and flowers, love and romance, loveletters, etc....the whole bit. It was nice at first, but after a while it began to wear on me and I couldn't understand why. Why? This was what every woman dreamed of. Why wasn't it making me happy? In fact, it made me a little irritated. I finally decided that the problem was that it was not spontaneous enough...ordinary life is not like that....and sometimes a stead diet of constant attention is just as your wife said "smothering."<P>In your attempt to undo some of the previous wrongs done you probably are just concentrating too hard on trying to please her...and in her current emotional state she's not <BR>capable of appreciating what you are trying to do. Remember the rule of LB...A LB is a LB no matter how well intended if is perceived as such by the WS.<P>So if she is asking you to back off a little, respect her wishes....she will probably let you know if you back off too much. Give her a little healing room...sometimes when we hurting we lash out at those who are just trying to make things better.<P>Faye<P>

Faye,<BR>I think you are right. I am backing off right now but I still don't completely understand what goes through her mind these days. I don't think I was doing too much romance or affection, more than before that's all. Also , some time ago, she said she doesn't know why she doesn't like it when I am doing and liked it when OM was doing it, in my mind I am doing it because I was loving her for 10 years and the guy wanted to get her to bed (much older than her and got lost as soon as I found out, what else?).<BR>Another thing that you are saying is that she will tell me if she needs more affection, but this is one of the biggest problems that got us into this mess that she doesn't tell me too much. I am working on this problem as well.<BR>Anyways, it's a complete mess, but it is much easier to go through with all this help I am getting from all of you.<BR>Thanks a lot again!<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by buffy:<BR><B>Hi Guys:<P>Well, it certainly seems if you are showing her affection that she should be able to appreciate...but there is still a problem. <P>In reading this I was struck by how similar this was to a situation I had in college. I met a very unusual boy who was filled with hearts and flowers, love and romance, loveletters, etc....the whole bit. It was nice at first, but after a while it began to wear on me and I couldn't understand why. Why? This was what every woman dreamed of. Why wasn't it making me happy? In fact, it made me a little irritated. I finally decided that the problem was that it was not spontaneous enough...ordinary life is not like that....and sometimes a stead diet of constant attention is just as your wife said "smothering."<P>In your attempt to undo some of the previous wrongs done you probably are just concentrating too hard on trying to please her...and in her current emotional state she's not <BR>capable of appreciating what you are trying to do. Remember the rule of LB...A LB is a LB no matter how well intended if is perceived as such by the WS.<P>So if she is asking you to back off a little, respect her wishes....she will probably let you know if you back off too much. Give her a little healing room...sometimes when we hurting we lash out at those who are just trying to make things better.<P>Faye<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>