This is the first time I post a message anywhere so I am a bit nervous. My sad tale is like many others I have read here. 2 years ago next October, my H told me that he had had "another woman" for the last fine years and that he wanted to be with her and her with him. I was so floored that I simply asked him what he was going to do and when he was leaving to be with her. I had not suspected a thing and because he had been gravely ill, I attributed his change in attitude towards me as a result of all the medication he has to take. 21 month later, month of ups and downs and fights and making up, he is still home. Never left. He is loving and affectionate and life should be great except for one small problem: he never stopped contact and after much asking on my part, has admitted that he calls her every week. He also went to see her in another city where she lives during a business trip and admitted seeing her. He says that he needs those phone conversations, that he has to have "that little bit"of her or all that's left is for him to shoot himself. He got involved with her after his illness and ssems to think that he won't live long even though there is no indication of this. She was his girlfriend in school for four years.<P>I love him and think that apart from his continuing relationship ( he says friendship) with her we could be very happy. I realize now how far we were from each other if he could this and I could be so blind.<BR>I wake up every night and keep thinking about all this and just don't know what to do. I have started doing all I can to change my attitude so that any discussion on the subject does not become so confrontational and to not let my emotions rule but I get so discouraged at times. I can only think that if he would rather hurt me than give up OW then I must not really mean much to him. <BR>Any advice, comments or words of encouragement out there?

Bleeding Heart<BR>I'm so sorry for your pain. You've come to the right place. Read all you can on this website for advise and any other books about A's so you can understand this. <P>You need to have a plan. Plan A and plan B are explained in the website. Choose what is best for you. Choose to be the best wife you can possibly be, if you think it will help, or go to plan B and not see him anymore.<P>The people in this website have good advise and support to offer you! Keep posting! We are here for you!

I too am sorry for your pain. You've taken a right step in coming to this site, because as you've discovered via reading, there are so many of us with marriages that are messed, yet we want to save them. We've seen what was wrong, but too late.<P>If you haven't read the article posted by NSR, on Just Found Out Forum, that welcomes new members, then please do so. You need to become familiar with Plan A, ENs, LBs, Plan B, etc.<P>When an affair has occurred, the most important thing that must occur is NO CONTACT. Many try and spin the situation to say they are "just friends" now, thereby justifying a continuing relationship. That is known to not work, regardless of what they really are, because among other things, in order to commit to you and work on the marriage, the other person (OP, or OW in your case) must be completely out of the picture.<P>So at some point, your H will have to implement no contact rule.<P>If he feels that he needs some of her, either he is just having his cake and eating it too and knows it, or he really thinks this is true. In any case, it would be nice if he could come here too, and learn about the tremendous strain that is placed on some like him, when they break it off for good with their affair partner. The withdrawal symptoms are terrible. It is an addiction.<P>You mention - "I can only think that if he would rather hurt me than give up OW then I must not really mean much to him"<P>That isn't necessarily true. If you learn about affairs, they are addictive and cause the people in them to lose all concept of reality, responsibility, maturity, etc. They can completely change during the affair. He is addicted.<P>So please read the recommended stuff, and always recommended is counselling with Steve Harley. He can help develop a plan for saving your marriage, and is so knowledgeable on affairs and relationships.<P>Keep us posted, and post as much as you need to. This site has been a life saver for so many of us.<BR>

Hi BleedingHeart:<P>I understand how you feel. My WS has had a long standing relationship with OW for years too, off and on, and he still keeps in contact with her. It has caused us to be separated for the last year, but I think it at last is coming to an end. Like Rick said these relationships can be like an addiction...and until and unless the WS is faced with the posibility of losing wife and family...he may never be willing to give it up....and it is a choice he has to make himself.<P>Having said that, please know that there is something that this relationship is supplying your WS that he may not be getting at home...and it is worth your time to stay here and investigate the MB principles. They may help you to find out what it is that is lacking. Having discovered that, you may be able to build a Plan A that can effectively ween him away from his need for OW. Otherwise, this thing can continue with you in the center until he grows tired of it, if he ever does.<P>There also are books, particularily "His Needs, Her Needs" that may give you some insight into what is going on.<P>Illness is often an causual factor for an affair. My WS has had several life threatening illness and like your WS thinks he has little time left to live and wants to "enjoy" himself while he can. Of course, this has been going on for 5 years now and he's still here...I think that's mainly a rationalization now on his part. <P>Your WS's being still at home makes me think he is just wanting his cake and eating it too. I'm sure my WS would still be at home too, if I would let him. It's been a long struggle, but he finally is beginning to come around....since this has elements of a MLC (Mid-life crisis) and they say MLC usually will resolve itself in 5 years time if you can hang on, then I guess he is about on schedule. And only about 1 and 1/2 year total of that whole time has been h***, the rest of the time it has been fairly normal.<P>Please stay here a while, read all you can, post alot and listen to what others have to tell...it's coming from hard earned experience and at lot of it is against your basic instincts...but it what needs to be done. Again welcome and I sorry you have to be here.<P>Faye<BR> <P>

I replied a couple of days ago but goofed by posting a new topic and not a reply. Shows how new I am at this. <BR>First of all thank you to buffy, Rick and Maezy for your kind words of welcome and encouragement. I have hesitated to continue this conversation with you all because I am confused and feel unable to deal with even a reply at this point. Nonetheless i will try to write what is going on. This is so hard. The writing here, the situation at home and plan A. In a nut shell H is very attentionate, very loving and very depressed. If you recall he will not stop contact with OW, has told me so repeatedly, and actually went on a business trip to the city where she lives and of course saw. He admitted to this reluctantly before going. <BR>In any case all my attepmts at discussing things are met with either refusal or a monologue on my part. I am actually grateful that he is even listening which he actually does with apparent interest. He is responding to my plan A in that he is particularly loving after our "discussions"and tells me he loves me, is where he wants to be, and recently said he "must be in love with me if he is still here". Following plan A rules, i refrained from telling him that he was also here when he was obviously not i n love with me but with another. Anyway I bite my tongue constantly so as not to fall back into love buster mode but I have to say that I wake up every morning very early and wonder what I am doing next to this guy who is in love with someone else.<BR>For now I have no idea where things stand with OW as he won't go near the subject. All I can see is that he is very sad and last night told me that he was "blue". When I asked him what made him blue, he said that he had a ****ty job ( not true), ****ty health (somewhat true) and was a failure.<BR>Strangely enough he seems more depressed than me and I am doing my best to be supportive, non judgemental and loving.<BR>Bottom line is I love him, I know he loves me but as someone said here, there is a shadow between us. <BR>I am still hopeful things will work out but that's because I have not asked him (again) to break things off completely with OW and as long as the shadow is there we won't have a marriage and he knows it.<BR>If I have a question, it is this. At what point do I start asking about the no contact? Now? Play it By ear? Any suggestions?<BR>

Hi Bleedingheart:<P>Hon, let me tell you one mistake you are making...if your WS will not let go of the OW...then you have to either Plan A until you think you done a adequate job and then move to Plan B or you have to shift the focus from that other relationship back to your relationship...in other words, ignore that relationship as much as you can and begin working solely on your relationship....no discussions about OW or the A. You can't force no contact if he's not willing...but you can work on the relationship from the inside and ween him away from his reliance on her for whatever EN she fulfilling. <P>As we said the pull of an addiction is strong....and some incentive has to given to make him willing to give it up...that may be a Plan A that wins him away or it may be Plan B that makes him want to give her up or lose you. This is your choice....you have to do what feels right for you...we can only give advise...and you take that for what it's worth. <P>He says he's where he wants to be...and he probably is...but somethings is still missing...your job is to find out what that is and help him find it in you and your marriage. I hope Mb has the tools for you to do so.<P><BR>Faye<p>[This message has been edited by buffy (edited June 20, 2001).]

~~~~~~~ Bleeding Heart ~~~~~~~<P>Just in case you couldn't find those links that everyone is talking about... and to formally welcome you, here is (one of) our Welcome Messages:<P>Hello and Welcome to Marriage Builders!<P>First, I would like to share two links with you. Just click on the underlined links here, and read –><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi10_tour.html" TARGET=_blank>Tour of Marriage Builders</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000553.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome</A>. <P>Please read everything you can on this site, post and read often!! <P>I have been betrayed and betrayer, so I have the dubious honor of knowing what infidelity does from BOTH SIDES of the situation. <P>I believe in the concepts espoused here, if applied properly. One idea that has worked *wonders* for some couples is Plan A. Read about it here –><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>What Are Plan A and Plan B</A>.<P>Use what you learn here to make your marriage a safe place where you do your best to meet the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A> of your spouse,and avoid <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A> whenever possible. . When a decision must be made, use the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>POJA</A> to determine the final outcome that you can both agree upon.<P>Many couples find that counseling is VERY helpful, and the counseling provided here is excellent for several reasons; but the most important is that it goes along with the concepts here. Check it out here –> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7000_counsel.html" TARGET=_blank>Counsel Link</A><P>Again, welcome to our community, and feel free to write often and ask lots of questions!<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>And we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino