Well, after my wife took our 8 year old son out to lunch with OM on Saturday and then took him swimming at his pool, against my wishes, I decided I could not tolerate having the children exposed to him any further.<P>My wife and I had agreed that there would be no further communication between OM and our family. We had also been advised by the children's pyscholgist, pyschiatrist, and our marriage counselor that the children should not be in contact at all with OM or his family. But now that my wife moved out, separated, she thinks it's okay. As a part of our separation to "rebuild our marriage" we had agreed to begin to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement, initially as it relates to our children and finances.<P>So yesterday I decided I needed to let the kid's (8 and 11 yr. old boys)know more about OM and that he is not just a "friend" as my wife has been telling them. I didn't go into any inappropriate details with them, but I felt they should know that OM was a threat to my marriage, and our family. So of course my kid's do not want to be near him now, have told my wife so, and she was upset with me for saying anything negative to the kid's about OM.<P>WHAT ELSE COULD I HAVE DONE?<P>As much as I did not want to ever discuss OM with the boy's, I felt at this time I had no choice and had to protect them some how, since my wife refused to comply with my request to keep the kids away from OM. <P>She is insisting that OM is just a "friend" now, but that is BS. She says we are still working on our marriage, completed the EN and LB questionnaire for a call we have scheduled next week with Steve H., but at this time refuses to stop seeing OM.<P>I DON'T GET IT. I don't think this is a love buster. I have been working religiously to follow plan A for 3 months now. I felt the protection of the children must come first.<P>What does everyone think?<P>Never say die!<BR>Junior Member posted June 16, 2001 02:58 PM <BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>Well today caught me off guard. I was getting ready to take the kids to the pool this morning when my wife called and said she would like to come and would meet us there. I said great!. Then she called back about 15 minutes later, and said she was bringing OM with her. I wasn't confortable about it, especially with my kids there, and politely said I didn't feel it would be appropriate. I also didn't feel it would be healthy for me either.<BR>She didn't like the way I felt about it and said I should be more "mature". She insisted that she is "just friends" with OM now and that their relationship is plutonic (I know she has been sleeping at his place). <P>I finally said It was up to her to decide what to do, but that I didn't feel I myself wanted to be at the pool at the same time with OM. I also told her I love her, am here for her, and want to meet her emotional needs. So she just came by a litle while ago, picked up our youngest son (8 years old)to take him swimming at a different pool where OM lives. She even kissed me on the lips when she was here. I never had any intention at all of even bringing up the subject of OM. She brought the subject up. THIS IS LIKE THE TWILIGHT ZONE! I think she may be trying to get me to accept OM so she will feel less guilty?<P>Am I missing something here or should I have just have gone to the pool with my kids while my wife was there with OM? <P><BR>IP: Logged<BR> <BR>Rick37<BR>Member posted June 16, 2001 03:23 PM <BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>I would not go to the pool while wife wanted to bring OM there. This situation is really strange, because usually they don't flaunt it like that.<BR>Your wife wanting to pass him off as a friend is ridiculous, but mine is doing the same. She just doesn't expect me to be around him, which in itself, tells you something.<P>You were more flexible than I ever was, because I flat out refused to be anywhere that OM was. Which is better, I don't know, but I can't tolerate it.<P>IP: Logged<BR> <BR>Orchid<BR>Member posted June 16, 2001 03:24 PM <BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>I would not have done it. I would have insisted that if OP could not be there for her family without a side kick then so be it. The family will be told that OP can't be there without the sidekick. <BR>You don't have to paint a bad picture, she already did. She may not like what she sees but that does not stop her from doing it. <P>Keep your dignity in tact. If you are uncomfortable then say so. If she is allowed to put your children in this situation and you allow it then you will need to prepare your children and you will need to handle their reactions. Depending on the age of your children, their perceptive abilities and what they are exposed to, there could be harmful damaged caused. If you are confused how do you think they will be? <P>They need to see that there is one sane parent there for them. <P>L.<P><BR>IP: Logged<BR> <BR>[H]<BR>Member posted June 16, 2001 03:58 PM <BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>Let me clarify. What I mean when I say "Be loving, supportive, and caring."<BR>This doesn't mean let her walk all over you my friend. <P>This means. If she want's to really talk about whats going on, don't explode on her, and let loose about all the things nasty things she's doing. <P>This only pushes her away, adds fuel to the fire. It also means listening, and admitting your own mistakes in the relationship as well. Thats all you can do. Admit your own mistakes. You can't force her to see her's. She will in time see that on her own. All you can say is look. I've done this and this, and I realize I messed up with those things. I understand where I went wrong.<P><BR>quote:<BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<P>Then she called back about 15 minutes later, and said she was bringing OM with her.<P>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<P>This piece of it seriously confuses me. OW and I talked a few times. Making a joke here and there that we would go meet my wife together. This we both knew was never going to happen. Wasn't even a serious joke. I knew there would be fireworks. I knew some bad stuff would go down. If they ever met. It was a benefit to myself, and to (OW). That they never meet.<P>Why your wife wants to you to meet (OM) is beyond me. I personally don't understand that (WS) logic. I don't understand why she is being very loving towards you. Perhaps thier (PA) has ended? Is it just an (EA) now? Are they friends? I don't know. Before my (A) is the only time I ever wanted my wife to truely meet (OW). I was friends with (OW) for two years, and at that point it would have been fine in my mind to do so. Not during the (A).<P>(OW) Also expressed that she didn't want to be anywhere near my wife when she came on a buisness trip to my state. I made sure that we avoided all of these places that my wife might be, ect.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers, Hugs, and Strength from both of us. Things do and can get better. Keep hoping, learning, and growing. Take care of yourself.<P>[H] and Knewjie<P>IP: Logged<BR> <BR>lupolady<BR>Member posted June 16, 2001 05:53 PM <BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>[H] WROTE: "(OW) Also expressed that she didn't want to be anywhere near my wife when she came on a buisness trip to my state. I made sure that we avoided all of these places that my wife might be, ect."<BR>This struck me as extremely funny because just before my H moved out to go and live w/OW, his brother suggested his W come to our house (we were remodeling, and they were "supposedly" helping) I now know my BIL was helping H get affairs in order to leave! Anyway, to get to the point, my BIL made this statement about his W coming over. I blurted out " IF SHE BRINGS xxx (OW's name) OVER HERE, I'LL SHOOT THEM BOTH!!!!!!" <P>See, I knew OW was trying to get her hooks into my H, maybe already had by that time. Not sure (I'll have to ask him later!). Anyway, I only knew BIL and SIL were instrumental in getting them together, and I wanted them to know I knew about that! I think my H almost sunk through an imaginary hole in the floor.... <P>I've often wondered how many times my H has asked himself, "What did my W know, and could she know it?" In truth, it was all just so much suspicion... <P>Sooo, my final point is that I think my H is also wondering when I'm going to show up with the 9MM. Oh, wait, he TOOK that one, I mean the .38! <P>Lupo<P> <P><BR>

I think you did the right thing. You've got the advice of three professionals on your side, and your children are old enough to be told something (just my opinion). I think your wife is being ridiculous, with this whole "just friends" thing.<P>It doesn't even matter now what they are, he is the OM, there was an affair, and there should be no contact with him ever again.<P>Hopefully the fact that your kids don't want to see OM now will have an impact. It sounds like your wife wants to have her cake and eat it too, but then again, don't they all.<P>I wouldn't worry about whether this was LB or not. In her eyes, it is an LB, but sometimes you have to forget whether it will be an LB, and just do what is right.

I agree, you children need to know what is going on. Being open and honest has never hurt anyone yet. It is the deceit the causes the most pain. We can all deal much better with the dragons we can see. Even children.I agree your children need to know what is going on. Being open and honest has never hurt anyone yet. It is the deceit the causes the most pain. We can all deal much better with the dragons we can see. Even children.<P>Children are far more perceptive them many people give them credit for. They are exposed to the OM and their mother moved out, yet they see everyone acting nicey nicey. If they are not told the truth, then they are going to learn that it is ok to do hurtful things and make other people pretend that nothing it happening.<P>I've heard it called the "dragon in the living room". There is a big nasty dragon in the living room. It belches, spits fire, yells at people, etc etc. Basically makes everyone miserable. But everyone is too afraid to get the dragon mad so they tip toe around it. Pretend to not notice how terrible, stinky and obnoxious it is. They do this for fear that if they make the dragon angry out outing it, the dragon will become much worse... maybe even eat them up or engulf them in flames. <P>Many families have a dragon in their living room. The entire family tiptoes around these people and therefore these people get away with just about anything. We've had a few in my family. But in the last few years we've been on a dragon hunt.... they are just about extinct now. Now if someone in our family or a friend pulls this stuff, we out him or her right there in front of everyone. In the politest, most dignified way possible of course since we would loath to become dragon ourselves.<P>So you outed the dragon to you children. Good for you. You have taught them that honesty and forthrightness is of the utmost importance. It is the only ethical approach. <P>IMHO<P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare<p>[This message has been edited by zorweb (edited June 19, 2001).]

Rick 37 - That's what I thought too! I felt that some sanity had to be execised in this matter and that no matter what, the children must be protected.<P>Today, my wife to the kids to our pool as I am job searching and when the kids came home they told me that OM was there, even though they told my wife they did not want to be near him. OM even spoke to them. My 11 year old ignored him and went into the pool to get away. And my 8 year old said OM spoke to him and was told by OM that he is just a friend of mom's, that Mom and Dad's problems were there before, and that he is a nice guy. My 8 year old doesn't want anything to do with OM either, but my wife doesn't get it.<P>This is really sick. OM barely works, (was at the pool not working, and can't swim) is nearly broke, was taken to small claims court for not paying his rent, Has a handy man business that is just getting by. <P>I must have really failed in the EN department with my wife<BR>But she say's I'm getting better...very strange. I was making 6 figures as a high-tech mid-management executive (In new job search and will relocate family, thank God!...wife says she will move but I don't trust her at this point), she doesn't need to work (as long as I'm her husband).<P>I'm very upset, and so are my kids about OM being around.<P>Any suggestions?

The OM is making me sick. I'd like to push him into the pool with his handyman workboots on.<P>You know, these "just friends" justifications for continuing to see OM/OW really get to me, I guess because mine is using the same gimmick.<P>In my case, there is no mention of saving the marriage (from her). But in yours, your wife pretends like you are working on things, yet won't stop seeing him. I'd like to know what Steve Harley says about this. He'll say no contact for sure, but what if your wife says no to that?<P>I'd be inclined to tell her to move out. But ignore what I say now because it is just annoying me at this time.<P>See what others think, but the upcoming call is good.<P>

One other thing. Your kids reactions are good for the situation. Hopefully it will get worse and they'll make it clear that OM is totally unwelcome. You never want to involve kids, but when it is coming from them just based on the truth and the facts, they are good to have on your side.<P>Could you consider a restraining order in the future if this keeps up, given the professional's advice?<P>Also, what about a slight update from you to them, saying that it really hurts you that once again, your wife brought OM around them, even though you asked that she not do that. Might make them more vocal about it. But once again, careful of my advice....cause this just gets to me. Maybe I've taken my MB hat off on this one.<p>[This message has been edited by Rick37 (edited June 18, 2001).]

Rick37 and Zorweb - Thanks! I will see my wife this morning. I was borderline going to plan B, but Steve H. asked me if I could still take it and if she was willing to complete the LB and EN questionnaires for our call next week, to hang in there. But he doesn't know about this incident with the kids yet!<P>Even after the kids told her that they do not want to be around OM, she disregarded their feelings about it. This makes me sick and she is withdrawing many Love Units from My Love Bank right now.<P>I don't even want to talk about OM with her, but now she brings him up as "friend". I discuss with her being around at home, to help as part of our family team in helping managing the houshold. I need to find a job and it will not be very long before we lose everything that we have spent the last 20 years building, if she does not come out of the FOG.<P>I thought about a restraining order since in our separation agreement I have custody of the kids for most of the Summer. I have also thought of taking the kids to NY to visit with family, get them in day camp, so I can focus on my job search. I'm really caught in a bind. I really need my wife, that I still love, to help our family as she has in the past during times of difficulty. But she seems completely lost.<P>I have the kids at home, am trying to look for work, am taking care of the house, failing to keep up with mounting bills, all while she's out having fun with OM and going to bars to play pool and whatever else they are doing. It's as though she is possesed by some alien life form.<P>This ship is sinking fast and we could lose everything. She is going to ruin her life, the kids, and mine, and I think the only way out is for me to get a job in another partr of the country, relocate the family, and effect a complete separation from OM.<P>Unemployment here is so high right now that the claims office does not have enough phone lines to handle the volume of calls (lines always busy.<P>I am trying so hard to be nice to my wife, follow everything I can find in MB, Plan A. I don't know if she is serious about the call with Steve H. next week or not, but I'm sure he will expect her to separate from OM as part of a plan and go through withdrawl.<P>I am going crazy right now, especially with how she and OM are trying to influence the kids. But I know they see through him and are now on the defensive. This I think is good. <P>I thnk OM is a damn parasite, predatory pig. My wife and I were in counseling when OM came along and he exploited the fragile nature of our recovery. We hired him to replace our kithchen floor last Thanksgiving, and the next thing I knew he was coming over every day almost, eating our food, drinking beer and getting drunk to the point that he could not drive. My wife was saying she "felt bad" for him because he had no familyaround during the holidays since his wife kicked out of the house. He was even here during xmas. I kept tring to get rid of him and couldn't, until I found out about their affair confronted them and filed adultery charges. We settled, separated, with my wife having to lose any right to alimony. She and I had been working on our marriage since then, still in counseling, since we both agreed that we wanted to save our marriage.<P>But as soon as the separation was finished, she got involved with him again, saying that she has tried to stay away from him but is still not able to.<P>What else can I do.

She cannot ruin your life and the kids lives. She can only ruin her own life. I've learned that over the past few weeks and have told my H the same thing.<P>Don't let her. You make your life wonderful, you make the kids lives wonderful. If that means a trip to Disneyland and another $2000 in debt - so what. Money is not that important, your kids and your life is what's important!<P>Spend as much time with them as you can, be as happy as you can. Do what makes all of you happy. She can only ruin you if you let her!<P>This thing with OM makes me sick to my stomach as well. Your wife is completely inconsiderate of you and your kids. How can she not realize the impact this has on them?? Does she go to the counseling sessions? If not, how about if you have the counselor write a letter to HER that explains WHY this is detrimental to your kids. Think it may have an impact coming from a professional? It doesn't matter if she believes he's a friend or not, he cannot be near you or the kids because of their relationship in the past. Period.<P>You did the right things by telling your kids. I told my daughter some of what was going on with her Dad as well. Not evil or mean things, just enough of the truth so she could be satisfied and stop asking questions AND refuse to be around OW!<P>Wow, if I were you, I would have gone to the pool and punched the guy out... You are strong to even consider going and being plutonic.

NSD,<P>Wow! Do I see some similiar threads running here!<P>Like you, my wife insists that she and the OP are just best friends. Only I have the added twist that the OP is a woman and her boss. It doesn't seem to matter that she admitted the affair to me six months ago and when she moved out in March, I told my kids (two girls, 9 and 15) exactly why. Although like Rick, mine is not interested in doing any counseling (she says she doesn't need it) or reconciling at this time.<P>Also like you, she insists on constantly trying to bring this OP back into my kids' lives. The oldest will not put up with it. The youngest, whom has known this OP like an aunt all her life, is so confused and doesn't know what to do. My wife is constantly playing with her mind and its been a major effort on my part to follow the principles of Plan A on this.<P>I believe Rick is also correct about the kids playing a major part in all this. At least I hope he is. My wife is starting to see how much what she is doing has affected them. The oldest does not want to go away on vacation with her, even though the OP is not tagging along. I did try to encourage her to do so. I know she and her mom are heading for a major confrontation on this. Steve H. has told me that this is all part of the A starting to deterioate. Hopefully someday when my wife is standing in the ruins of what she has done, I'll be there with open arms to help.<P>You did the right thing in telling the kids. For my part, it did not turn out to be such a major LB. I believe she did feel somewhat angry, relieved and shocked that I stood up to her all at the same time. Our relationship actually got somewhat better after that point, although like I said she still claims the OP is just her best friend and shows no interest in coming home.<P>I guess all that crap I went through at the outset of all this was just my imagination?

Thanks everyone for your support! I thought I was doing the right thing by telling the children about OM. My wife came over today and talked. I reviewed with her the EN and LB questionnaires she completed for me and I'm finishing the same for her. We have a call with Steve H. next week.<P>Then she brought up an issue she felt she still has with me. Much of her discontent with me has been around controlling behavior. I have made much progress in this area and she agrees. But she tried to rationalize my discussion with the kids about the truth of OM as another example of controlling behavior. I made it very clear to her that THIS IS WHERE I DRAW THE LINE. No matter what happens between her and I, I must put the children's best interest and protection first. <P>For some reason my wife cannot make the distinction between involving the kids with someone (OM) who began his relationship with her as an affair as opposed to a new relationship with someone else that begins after separation. <P>OM exploited the generosity of my family and the recovery of my marraige to his advantage. This is a dangerous person who will do the same to her and anyone else he becomes involved with. In summation, he is a "homewrecker". Exposure of kids to this type of person who has relentlessly purused my wife teaches children that this type of behavior is normal, condoned, and appropriate.<P>I made certain today that my wife listened to the children tell her very clearly that they DO NOT want to speak to or be around OM. She said okay and I asked her to please respect their feelings. I'll be watching closely.<P>I also made an appointment with the kids psycholgist to discuss this with him and called their pyschiatrist too. <P>She mentioned to me today that the best way I can help us right now is to find a job, which would relocate the family. She said it may be the only way she can leave OM. I MUST GET FOCUSED ON THIS. IF ANYONE CAN PLEASE PASS ALONG MY RESUME PLEASE LET ME KNOW? WE WILL CONSIDER MOST ANY PART OF THE COUNTRY.<P>Thank you all. Most days in the past few months I have felt like I am dying and the emotional pain is incredibly excruciating, but at least lately I feel like this forum is helping me get by one day at a time.<P>Thanks again.

NSD, what do you do for work? What are you looking for?

Same here, what do you do?<P>z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare