Okay guys/gals, <BR>This is just an observation and my own opinion, but thought it warranted posting. Now, to begin with I haven't read the post by Humblefish that everyone is so steamed about (it was already deleted when I got to it), so I can't comment on what was written but I can comment on the replies that I have seen. I am a long term member here and have been through rough times with some of you here, as well as causing some hackles to be raised , so I feel I have earned the right to say this. We talk constantly about how forgiveness and reconciliation are of utmost importantce. Yet, when someone posts a topic that burns us in some way, or gives us that twinge of pain, we react judgingly and harshly. So quick to get mad and attack, but so seemingly slow to remember that we are here to heal. Regardless of our reasons for being at this site WS/OW/BS/OM we have come for support. No I am in no way condoning someone having free reign to tear us all apart, but I think in some ways we must look past an unwelcome post to see the person hurting on the other side. We will continually "Plan A" even though our respective spouses may be hurting us deeply, and without cause, but we don't always afford the same tolerance to each other. I am not preaching by any means, some of you may indeed remember my very harsh and extremely uncalled for post to Dazed and Confused . It just appears that some times we should be looking past the words to see the speaker...to see that there is a heart that is damaged and hurting. Now whether or not she is an OW, I think Humblefish has come to this board for help, and I think we should be glad that she has taken at least that step. Just remember the incredible, almost unbearable strength that "the fog" has. I can attest to it's power, as well as lots of you can. Let's try to remember this...eh?<BR>Once again, just my opinion. <P>[This message has been edited by Being a better Arik (edited June 19, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Being a better Arik (edited June 19, 2001).]

Sorry Arik, but u r off the mark with this one. Like u said u didn't read HER POST and HER HARSHNESS and NAME CALLING to ALL AMERICAN PEOPLE! She wasn't looking for help in THAT POST! Maybe in previous post's but certainly not that one. She was upset because we didn't tell her what she wanted to hear and starting the IGNORANT FLAMES!! And not only BS were upset but WS were upset too, due to the belittling of American People.

So Arik,<P>How are you? How is Nicole? How is your marriage?<P>~Sheryl<P>

Okay...could be wrong...simply had to voice what I was thinking. It appeared that when HF was asking for help, she was getting it by the truck load, but when it came time for that all too familiar "bad day" to come I thought it was a little much...my bad?<P>New_beginning...was that sarcasm? Unbecoming I must say.<BR>So, I guess my situation must mean that I had better not come here either? Now there is true support for ya.

I asked how you were. How is that sarcasm?<P>I care. Gee whiz Arik.

Arik, Hon I am sorry but you sound way too defensive here. I remember you and your W posting. Why are you assuming that Sheryl was being sarcastic with her question ? It seems to me those would be normal and perfectly acceptable questions to ask someone who hasn't posted for a while. As for Humblefish, have you read all of her posts ? I read a few, I didn't respond because I doubted I would be of much help. We all know how straight forward I can be. She has recieved much encouragement here, she really has. But remember this is the "marriage builders board", not the "support for your affair board". <P>You and I have both been here long enough to know that everyone will not agree with everything anyone says. And the post that was deleted was more based on her attack on the nationality and or belief systems of many posters here, not on her situation.<P>So how are things with your family, and no I am not being sarcastic, I have thought of Nichole and you several times.

Personally.. I was a bit "Appalled" at first. As she said some things that seemed specifically directed to "Ws / MM" on the boards here. I'm one of the few of those "Ws's" who've seen the light, and turned things around.<P>In my posts to her, I never flamed, never specifically attacked her. Never really said anything she could consider nasty. I just explained from my perspective what I felt, and I she even posted a question for me. Things seemed to be "Okay" as far as the posting back and forth.<P>So I see this latest post as a personal slap in the face to me. On two levels. As an american, and as a former (WS /WH)<BR>I understand all to well how hard it is to make "No Contact" a very trying moment for me in the beginning. Wasn't something I was looking forward to doing, wasn't easy during moment either. As the (OW) in my case was calling, and emailing.. So that made things so much more difficult. I stuck with (No Contact) I meant it. Got easier over time.<P>So whether or not the post was directed to me, doesn't really matter. What I see, and what others here see, can often be two different things. I'm sorry she's having a rough time, but... it's just that. No one forced her in to the position she's in. No one forced me in to the position I was in either. I realized I was chasing a trail of smoken reason finally. I stopped my mistake, the (A) I got the help I needed before it was to late. I stopped running away. I've done a lot on the recovery path now, and making new choices. New choices I feel good about.<P>So she continues to make the mistake of either calling him, or talking with him, listening to him, or whatever. She continues to make the mistake regardless. Holds on to a love that is lost. Doesn't matter if they agreed to part seperate ways amicably or with love in thier hearts. They agreed to part ways. Being in contact isn't going to allow her to heal or move on either. Regardless of who is calling who here. I've seen many people post, that "If you love someone enough, sometimes you have to let them go." I think if she really loved him, she'd allow him a chance and his wife a chance to rebuild thier marriage. Perhaps time to own up to the name. <P>"HumbleFish" Time to be humble...<P>I'm certainly not the vast majority here either. I'm here to help, and to be helped. I try and remain composed when I see posts like we're discussing here. While I mulled around the thought of posting a nasty reply myself. I didn't, instead I went to go vent a little bit with the rest of the folks. I.e. BrokenDreamsX's thread. "Someone convince me not to...."<P>Emotions are often high on this board. I've learned this over time. It's not easy dealing with this type of sitation. I've seen a few posts written in anger here. Not much you can really do about that overall. Just try and remember that the vast majority of folks here are (BS's). Have a little compassion as well when posting things that will upset a majority of people. They are hurting to, and when you attack and post specific things to intentionally hurt "As I saw in her post" people will most certainly react. Just have to be happy, that thread wasn't 100 posts larger.<P>As her post stated at the bottom "I wont be returning to post on this board anymore, so here's what I think (insert a bunch of nasty things, and hurtful statements.)" What does that say to you? As easy as it might be for you to turn the other cheek. Emotions are run high here, and often. I agree she wasn't looking for help in the post. It was duely directed at doing damage. Everyone at MB.com and specifically some people we're the punching bag. I'm sorry she choose to do this.<P>Again... no one forced her in to that position... She made that choice.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers, Hugs, and Strength from both of us. Things do and can get better. Keep hoping, learning, and growing. Take care of yourself.<P>[H] and Knewjie<p>[This message has been edited by [H] (edited June 19, 2001).]

So, I must humble myself here, in front of all who are going to read this post, and apologize to New_beginning. It appeared to me that the reply was directed at my giving advice when things are not so good in my little part of the world. See what happens when we judge too quickly...?

Okay Arik, no harm done. Apology accepted...<P>How are things with you? How is Nicole? How are your children?<P>By the way, I also post as Nyneve, but I wanted you to recognize me right away, which is why I'm posting as new_beginning here.

Well okay then folks...as I said I didn't read it. Next time I will be sure to have all the facts. Maybe I should have posted it as a question, asking if we were too harsh based on what was written?? Better? This was not meant to offend any of the parties that were hurt by her words.<P>Deb- yes, I have been feeling very defensive lately, lots of "stuff" happening, no things are not so well with Nicole and I (lots involved so forgive me if I don't elaborate here) maybe look at Nicole's post in Divorced/Divorcing<P>(H)-good points, there were many replies that weren't flaming and I did mean to exclude those <P>New_beginning- you know our current situation, you have been in e-mail contact with Nicole, I jumped the gun. 'Nuff said.

Oh, and a quick word about Humble:<P>I was the first to answer her when she came a few weeks ago in a drunken stupor... I tried to help. I dropped by most of her postings, told her she was doing well with the "no contact" and again, as many did, tried to offer support. I don't know what she wrote yesterday, but if it was as incoherent as her first post, I'd assume she has a real drinking problem.<P>She needs help, and she has my pity, because she is being taken for a ride by the OM, who is stringing her along... and she TRULY does have problems. <P>I wish I would have seen what she wrote... but we've had a few OP show up around here and blast this place lately. I don't know why.<P>Arik, remember how you came here as an OP, as I did originally, and we may have been defensive, but we wanted help... remember? I thought Humble wanted help, so I extended my cyber-hand. She wanted validation, not help. There's a difference.<P>Just wanted to say this ~ Humble and any other OP is welcome here to work on their marriages, or even to get help to stay away from the MM and get an understanding of the pain they are causing a family. <P>But when they come on to attack, they are NOT welcome. There's so much pain on these boards already, we don't need more directed at us.<P><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>And we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino

Arik, <P>I heard very briefly from Nicole, yes. Haven't heard from her since.<P>But of course I have no idea of how things are going now, or how YOU are. <P>I do care about you and your family.

But remember this is the "marriage builders board", not the "support for your affair board". >>><P>My sentiments exactly.<BR>

Wow, talk about changing the subject of a post...( )<BR>Nyneve/New_Beginning, Nicole will have to tell you how she is (I'm not always sure anymore) children are doing well(haven't been told) and I will respectfully decline to report on how I am doing. Thank you so much for your concern, I think that you and Nicole should talk more quite honestly, since unfortunately, you have this in common.

Arik,<P>Best wishes (truly) as you navigate this road... it isn't easy...<P>Prayers going up for you and your family.<P>I'll leave this thread now, but know that I was happy to see your name because I thought it might mean things were better for your family.<P>No harm... no harm intended at all...<P>Take care.

Airk,<P>You really had to see the post. I wish that Humble had left it there because it was truely an amazing post. Still shaking my head.<P>You are right that we have to look past her words and attacks of people who mostly extened a hand to her. When I look past her words I see a person who is seeking to justify her position, not get out of it. This is not the first time she's blasted the board and Americans as a whole in drunken spew. She seems to have a great dislike for Americans and feels an unwarrented superiority.<P>I have been very active in encouraging her and supporting her. But her post was very much out of line. I was still trying to decide if I was even going to enter that fray when she deleted her post. I will not respond to someone who does not have the guts to stand behind their words. <P>If she shows up again, I will continue to be supportive of her and of any positive action she takes to end the affair. But I will not be party to someone trashing people who have, for the most part, reached out to a person through their own pain.<P>I really wish you could have seen the post....<P>Z<BR><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Thanks Z- Everyone has made a lot of sense when responding to this post. I can see that my first impression was pretty unwarranted. What I am hearing from all of you is really the point of my post. That we can look beyond and see the source of someones pain. Everyone who has written back has definitely shown me that we are on the same page, and I thank you. I myself can be quick to jump to conclusions...as seen earlier, so please don't think that I was chastising anyone. I guess that I don't want people to be pushed away that can truly gain something valuable from all of the experience and wisdom that abounds on this site.

((((((((((((((((((Arik))))))))))))))))))

Just stopping in to say hello....(heck, yes, that's a hint.)<P>Hugs to Nicole, too.<P>Lori

Dylan!! Luv ya doll write me??<P>Lori- Momma...hint taken. On it's way...lot's goin' on.