I'm a newbie, so go easy - but I'm wondering (for the life of me) how it is that everyone seems so willing to forgive their spouses for having an affair? To me, it is the ultimate betrayal, from which there is no repair. <P>I'm having big-time relationship problems with my spouse, and am here trying to get ideas how to turn the train around before it's too late. But, if I found out that she had betrayed me to this extent (w/ an affair), the whole matter would be much easier for me: End of marriage, end of story. And, I would expect the same response from her if I strayed. <P>For all out there who have been victims of this kind of ultimate betrayal - you have my deepest sympathies and best wishes. <P>Keith

Hi Keith, Thank you for your sympathies. I used to say the same thing about infidelity until it happened. My first response was to kick my H out and his first inclination was to leave. However, then reality sets in for both the BS and the WS.

Hi Keith!<P>I'll try to explain how we are able to be so forgiving after an affair: For a start, we love our spouses very deeply, but have seen them change, act entirely out of character, become totally alien to us when they have an affair. We know the 'real' person is somewhere in there still, and that is the person we love so much. We know that this is a big mistake and want to help them out of this mess. Of course, at the beginning we are bitter, angry, resentful - but you soon start to think about things a bit more deeply, and realise that it wasn't entirely their fault. There are often many factors that come together to produce the circumstances leading to an affair - and realising this is the first step in the healing process. Several things have to share the blame - including us, after all, if our spouses were completely and perfectly happy in the marriage and in their lives, then they wouldn't have the need to have an affair, right?<P>Another reason is that we realise that if we just give up and throw our marriages away too quickly, then we won't have the self-respect or 'closure' that comes with knowing that at least you tried. I know a friend who left her first husband as soon as she discovered he was having an affair - she met another man almost straight away, while she was still on the 'rebound', moved to a different country and married him. They have been married for 16 years now - but she tells me that she still dreams about her first husband every night, and often wonders (with regret), what would have happened if she had just given their marriage a chance...<P>It's hard to understand - I know that many of our families think that I am crazy to want to wait for him like this - but then I know what is right for ME, and I'm not going to give up on the wonderful man that I KNOW is in there somewhere, I'm not going to give up on 17 years of marriage that easily - one of us has to be strong!<P>Best wishes,<BR>Paint.

Keith, <BR> Do you know i used to think the same way?. that was it he cheats its over...........but when it finally comes down to it you do a double take.......... did we put all this effort into this marriage to give it up for something like this?.....no we didnt.... we also learn that in everything there is forgiveness.,....... you may never be able to forget it, it may hurt you beyond all reason but the love that you share wiuth your spouse is stronger than some other person coming in for a bit to destrayo it all<BR>

For anyone who has not been in our shoes it is easy to say the betrayal would be it...the end...fini...kaput...hast la vista, baby...see ya 'round...get out...et al. <P>But it ain't that easy. I am one who assumed that once "it" happened that would be the end, but no one and I mean NO ONE, knows how they will react until it happens to them.<P>For me all I had to do was answer a simple question:<P>Wwould my life be better with the woman I married or better without her?<P>As you can see, I am here, I am working on my marriage and so the answer is clear. Once that question was resolved, my energy went into the marriage and relationship and I have left the anger and resentment behind...hopefeully for good and hopefully I will be successful.<P>That's my answer.<P>I am sure there are many others who have different replies.<P>E

Hi Keith:<P>How fortunate you have found this site before things have reached a breaking point in your marriage. With MB help maybe you'll have a chance that most of us didn't...to work on your marriage without another person in the picture.<BR>Please stay long enough to learn what you can do to repair your marriage.<P>As for you question about why...it is easy to say I would do this or that when it's not staring you in the face...I use to think just like you...until it happened...and my WS went crazy...he left everything behind for the OW...tried to give up his career....his family....his reputation....all for OW that most of us won't touch with a 10 foot pole...WHY? Something else is going on here. This is not as simple as it seemed it would be. When you're face to face with it...nothing ever is.<P>So I stayed...for the sake of 25 years in a basically good marriage...and tried to figure out what had happened...how to make thing right again...in the circumstances I didn't think I had another choice....I made a vow...for me it was real and lasting....not just until things got bad and I wanted to dump it all. But until I came to MB I didn't know what was wrong and how to fix it. Now I do and I'm trying as hard as I can to undue the harm that's been done on both sides. And you probably would too...I hope you don't ever have to face the decision.<P>Faye

Keith,<P>I'm responding to your post requesting a female viewpoint, but I didn't want to put my response there so here it is. I don't know if anyone has told you yet to read all of the info on the MB site. There is a lot of discussion related to emotional needs and especially how a lot of them are all tied very tightly to SF (sexual fullfillment) for women. The book "His Needs, Her Needs" also covers this in detail. The point is strongly made that problems with sex are often symptoms of problems elsewhere. Fix those problems, and the sex part is often cured as well. <P>Do a lot of reading and studying here before doing anything drastic. You'll be glad you did. (I'm glad I came here before reacting!)<P> - Jeff<BR>

Keith:<P>Welcome, I'm a newbie too, but you asked a question. You've had a lot of great answers, but I thought I'd add my two cents worth.<P>When I was first married and for a long time after that, I thought that if my W had an affair that would be it. And you are right, it is the ultimate betrayal. I've almost come to believe I would have rather had her come home and shoot me than to have had an affair. But somewhere along the way, I began to realize that what my spouse and I had built, our children, our history, our shared experiences, all that, was worth far more to me. About 5 years ago this subject came up when we were with a few other couples, they all said the same thing you did, but when it became my turn, I said, "I don't know. It would hurt like hell, but I think I'd forgive." When I said that, I was an idiot and assumed that if my W did it, she'd *want* me to forgive her and take her back.<P>Boy was I wrong! She couldn't care less about my forgiveness. In her mind, I only forgive her because I'm weak and needy and can't get along without her. And to make matters worse, she thinks the whole thing is my fault. If I'd been a better husband, she would never have done it. But I was so lousy, I forced her into it.<P>But as I contemplated divorce, as I thought about just bringing the whole thing to an end, I could find nothing of who I really am down that road. It absolutely felt like: "You betrayed me, you treated me like dirt, so now I'm going to throw you away." And I couldn't do that. I still love my wife. I'm mad as hell at her; I think she's acting like a 2 year old; she's about as rational turnip; and she continues to hurt me in many ways. I'm in plan B right now, and I believe it is very possible that in six months or so, I'll get divorce papers delivered to my door. But none of that really matters. I *have* to know I did everything I could to save the marriage. I *have* to know that I tried my best to fulfill the vows I made to my wife. And I *have* to know that I showed her love, and kindness, and respect, and she chose to reject it. Does that sound like it's all about me?<P>Well maybe. But on the other hand, I remember the girl I married, and when I compare her to the person she has become, I think she has lost her soul. And I want to know that I did everything I could to help her; because the girl I married would not have done this. I know I'm partially at fault, and to some extent I'm trying to atone for that, but more than that, I know in my heart that if my wife continues to be as she is now, the rest of her life will be filled with unhappiness, loneliness, anger, and bitterness. And if I can possibly help prevent that, I'm going to try.<P>Because, I guess, Keith, I believe that there is more at stake than my betrayal. My own beliefs are at stake as well as my wife's life. She's done something very evil, but I'd like to help her find her way back to the wonderful person she used to be. Maybe in that process, I can find myself as well.<P>For what it is worth,<P>Ishmael

Wow!!!! Ishmael just knocked that one WAY out of the ballpark.<P>He completely crystallized my thoughts on the matter, from my wife's perception of me being "pathetic" for wanting to stay, all the way through the end, about it being about your own personal values.<P>I'm with him; to rise up with anger and close the door on the relationship would be 1) not in my character and 2) akin to her act of giving up. It's just not the right answer. I think you have to take measures to protect yourself in case she decides to be equally nasty in the divorce proceedings, but, for me, you don't quit. Ever.<P>Man, Ishmael, I'm going to copy that response and read it every day!<P>Thanks,<BR>f_n