I posted this under the other forum- but then thought maybe you might offer some insight here also??<P>I'm new to this and could use some advice <P>I've been reading thru your boards, and am in a situation that is very odd- I could use some advice!!! Can you help me?<BR>I just turned 30. My STBX H and I would have been married 10 years....I found out from an anonymous phone call in January that he had an A with an employee- after lying all day, he finally admitted to her and only her. Still feeling like something wasn't right, I pushed and pushed, and finally 6 weeks later he told me that there were atleast 8 or 9- all within the past 5 years- all sexual (like cheap and nasty- 20 minutes here and there in cars at lunch!!! All with employees, coworkers or customers- i didn't know any of them)- he even had 3 going on at once this past year- and he said the last one ended in July of last year....<P>I immediately told him it was over- it is- I would never tolerate that- and his behaviour and disrespect for me even prior to all of that, was making me borderline ready to file anyway!!! I also come from a long line of cheaters- as does he- and AM NOT ABOUT TO LET MY CHILDREN (ages 11, 9 and 3- 2 boys and a girl) think that this is ok AT ALL!!!!<P>We both grew up in the church- and right now- I feel so betrayed by not only him- but God and the church as well!!!<P>The very same month that I turned my relationship with him over to God, he started his first affair....and thru all of this- NOT ONE PERSON FROM OUR CHURCH has called me or come by to pray with me- NOTHING!!!! It's like I'm contagious!!!<BR>He also had three in one state- and then feeling like it was God's will that we move- I left all of my family behind and he went on to conduct ATLEAST 6 more!! Was that God's will?????<P>My dilemma is this- he has turned his life over to God fully now- and while I was expecting him to jump for joy and run the other direction- he is running straight at me with LOVE????!!!! But it's TOO LATE FOR ME!!!! <P>No matter how hateful I am, or how I throw things, or tell him to "get his love off of me"- he tells me God has put him on a path to me and that's where he is going to stay- even if I divorce him- even if I remarry!!!!<P>Has this happened to anyone else? Was your spouse sincere? What happened???<P>I'm so confused now by this!! I SO want to soak up his love that he is finally offering- but I WILL NOT TRAVEL THIS PATH AGAIN!!!! I keep thinking how easy it was for him to throw me in the trash- and I don't know how I can compare 4 months to 10 years of lies and hurt!!<P>ANd I'm very afraid to get back into church too- I'm afraid to trust my judgement, I'm afraid to trust God, I'm afraid to trust Christains that SAY they are my friends but don't have a clue!! I'm afraid because apparently, I don't have a clue either- just a big LOSER stamped across my forehead!!!<P>There is so much more to all of this also- history- present circumstances- but this post is already long enough- maybe some other time I can share- I just don't have anyone to talk to about this- all of the people I know that have been in my shoes reconcile- but that is not what my plans are!!<P>Can anyone help????<BR>I appreciate any insight you can offer..<P>Too Late<P>

Hi TLFE,<P>Yes, we can help. You will have to be prepared for a bit of a bumpy ride, but yours may not be as bad as the majority. If your H is truly repentant and willing to chagen you have an advantage that is worth gold in this arena. <P>First off, read the book surviving an affair. Schedule an appointment with a marriage counselor or you can use the phone service counseling offered by Jennifer and Steve Harley. Take the emotional needs questionnaire offered at this site. As much as possible, try to involve your H in this research. This is a marriage builders forum. The primary goal here is to restore our marriage. The damage has been done and can not be removed, here you can learn how to assess your needs, work with what you have and move forward with your life. <P>You will read and hear of many horrible situations. Mine is not classic but definitely one for the books. For some recovery is quick, others slow and still others recovery means they go on with their lives without their original spouse. All in all there is progress and improvement by most who visit this site. <P>This is not a full proof sight. The posters here are just regular people trying to survive this awful mess that has been forced upon us. All levels of people are here, WS (wayward spouse), BS (betrayed spouse), OP (other person OW or OM), etc. Most come for help and in turn lend support. There is a small (very small) majority who come and try to hurt others. These don't stay long. There is a strong support group here. Outside that area are the moderators who oversee the activity here, then there is the administrator/creators of this site who have their program called marriage builders. There is much to learn from here.<P>I would like to welcome you to learn and apply all the info and tools that can help you. You have children to consider along with the future of your entire family. We can help you get on your feet and get past the anger and despair. <P>Read and study the info here. <P>Take Care, <BR>L.<P><BR>

Hello Too Late,<P>And I'm so sory that you have to be here.<P>I can't answer the Christianity questions. I saw a couple of responses to your question over on the D/D board. I'm not much of a church going "christian" myself so I don't consider myself qualified to go there at all.<P>What I can talk to you about is the infidelity. No, you're not the only one who's gone through this nightmare. MY STBX admitted in May 2000 to a "date" with a girl (I use the term loosely -- I really want to call all of them by other names) just two nights prior. Several of his friends then told me about another woman he'd had sex with five years before that. Just this past March he told me himself about five others. All cheap, all sleazy, all one-night stands. Just like your H. In hotel rooms, after work (he worked in a hotel!), one woman he picked up at a bar, another at the coffe shop he worked at -- he'd known her for what, an hour. Had sex with her. Came home to me and our children like nothing was wrong. <P>I KNOW there have been others. Too many people have told me too much for me to believe that these were the only ones. <P>I was devestated. I was sure that my life was over. I felt enraged, humiliated, angry at the "friends" for not telling me sooner, angry at myself for staying with the b****** when I sensed all along that this was what was going on.<P>I will tell you what I did, but bear in mind that it's not what everyone should do. I threw him out. I moved too. I decided to start living the life that I so desperately wanted but couldn't live with him. BUT we had other issues. Alcoholism. Emotional abuse. His immaturity and unwillingness to accept "adult" responsibilities -- the man blew through a $130,000 inheritance in a years time and we have NOTHING to show for it -- not a single college fund, no savings, nothing. <P>So, cry and scream and get your anger out of your system. You will need to do this daily. Whatever you do, don't make ANY DECISIONS right now. You are too freshly wounded to respond or react to this situation logically. If I had it to do over again, I would have probably stayed in the house with him for a while longer and thought things through a little better. I'm sure I would have ended up here (divorcing) anyway but I mighht have been on firmer ground, financially. <P>I DO believe that people can change, that some marriages lead to where our mariages ended up. They are like an entity unto themselves and some are terribly unhealthy. My STBX and I both agree that there was a domino effect that led to all of the years (five or six) of cheating, lies and deception, but that it was him who got the ball rolling and I who had no idea how to stop it. We fed on each others anguish and dependencies for a long, long time. <P>He too says that he LOVES me and wants desperately to stay in this marriage. It is very confusing. How can someone who claims to cherish ME sleep with a dozen other women so callously? <P>For my benefit, for the childrens benefit, and to make sure that what I was doing was the right thing, I tried to reconcile. I love him in spite of everything and believe strongly in marriage. There were certain boundaries that I set and that he agreed were not at all unreasonable(the POJA being foremost) . He crossed every single one of them within a month. I did give it a second chance and then a third before I finally gave up.<P>I'm working on myself now and I take comfort, advice, solace, wherever I can get it. <P>Your church is not doing much for you? Try another. Try a support group. As for this site, it's been a godsend to me. I've tried Plan A -- not much sense in it if you're dealing with a serial cheater AND they want to work on the marriage anyway. But I've used many of the tools available here to try and understand him and myself better. <P>Counseling, without a doubt.<P>But for today, just know that you WILL get through today, and that's all that matters. You have children to care for. Take a deep breath and just BE if that's what gets you through today. <P>Please keep posting and asking and venting whenever you need to. We're all here for you. <P>Peace<P>Snow

Thank you for your responses...<BR>I am not sure that I am entirely welcome here- because although he is the one who has had all of the affairs- I am now the one that has said "It's over- you wanted to be free- i'll give it to you"<P>My problem is- he doesn't want to be free now!!!<P>He keeps coming at me loving me- but I'm too vulnerable for that right now- and I plan to dissolve our marriage as soon as I have gained residency in my state...<P>I didn't know if there where others here- that have grown up believing in God that are now struggling with their faith, and having a "role reversal" in terms of wanting to divorce, but spouse NOT wanting to????<P>Has anyone every divorced, then later on dated and possibly even remarried the same person?<P>I am not just finding out about his affairs- it's been 3 months now- and I feel like I'm handling things well- especially for the kids- my STBX and are are very friendly, we enjoy one another's company- occassionally he even stays here when he has had a late night- and has an early morning...<P>He is doing all he can to hang on to me, but I need some breathing room- and really- thought I love him- don't know if i have the energy to do anything else BUT divorce him..<P>I wrote more over on the divorce forum under my same post- I feel so frustrated because I don't seem to fit in anywhere on this site!!!! I guess I should have known better- hence the name- this is probably a forum that my STBX should post under- even though he has been the cheater- he is the one trying to rebuild the marriage- ALONE!!<P> <P>I'm sorry- thanks again for your replies- maybe I will find somewhere that I fit??<P>Too Late<p>[This message has been edited by Too Late For Me? (edited June 21, 2001).]

Too late:<BR>I know exactly where you are coming from because you and I are in the same boat. My husband did not have but one other person; but that relationship lasted over 10 years and the other person was a man. <P>The official d-day for me was 8 weeks ago. I have gone back and forth about leaving. First I was sure I would, then we "reconciled." Then I found out he was continuing this friendship so I again decided to leave. Then he said he would sever all contact so we reconciled.<P>Then a couple of weeks ago, I realized that I just don't love him. It's not just the affair, its what our relationship deteriorated to in those ten years. We get along fine. Most people would think that we are very happy. We work together well in many respects - I just don't love him. There was almost no affection for over 10 years. My self-esteem went to 0. I kept thinking "What am I doing wrong that my own husband isn't interested in me?" I wanted out of the marriage, which I had come to view as a punishment, way before I knew I had a reason for leaving.<P>I am also deeply religious. If I leave, I will be blamed. I don't plan to tell people what he did - it would devestate too many people, including our kids. I may someday say he had an affair, but I don't think I'll ever tell the whole truth.<P>My husband also wants to stay married. He has even been giving me cards the last couple of weeks. This is really irratating me because I told him that I need some time and space to think things out. I feel like he is trying to manipulate me. His cards are really backfiring because I see this as a sign of disrespect.<P>Truthfully, I don't know if I could ever be happy with him again. It's hard to look at him and not think of all the pain. I'm afraid that if I stay now, I will always be suspicious and unhappy. I'm afraid that if I go, the kids will suffer. I'm afraid that if I stay the kids will suffer because I find now that when I get angry at them, the anger I feel for their father gets wrapped up in it and makes me overreact.<P>I am trying to move very slowly and very carefully. Because my husband is a pastor, if I leave there will be no going back to the way it was. He will most certainly lose his job and our home. On the other hand, if my husband keeps pressurinng me with his "thoughtfullness" I may have to move before I am ready.<P>I am also struggling with the issue of "just because I forgive, do I have to stay married to him" issue.<P>Anyway, the only advise I have is to move slowly. Do what you think you can live with the rest of your life. Good luck!

Thanks to you all for your responses to me...<P>That's just it Fighting- Our relationship was long gone before I even found out about these affairs!!!<P>About a year into our marriage, I was feeling horrible- and so was he...I tried to get him to go to counseling with me EVERY YEAR atleast 4 or 5 times a year for the past 8 and he never wanted to...we never "dated"- he always had some excuse ready, he NEVER wanted to talk to me- he would FALL ASLEEP while I talked to him or cried....<P>I ASKED HIM LITERALLY EVERY OTHER DAY what he needed from me- affection, communication, more sex, to be left alone- HE NEVER ONCE SAID A THING!!! I mean literally- not even ONE WORD!! I was talking into space!!! That is why I posted the other question about whether it is really the fault of the betrayed???? He had so many missing components- it was all I could do not to leave him five years ago!!!!<P>And that was all BEFORE he started affairs- once those started- I always thought maybe he was having them, but he lied so convincingly that I just went with it- and here I am, wasted my whole twenties- and with hime having cheap sex for almost 6 of it!!! <P>I don't think I even love him anymore...it is a miracle I can even say that...in my heart of hearts- if I could let go of ten years- I look at him today and think he might finally be the man i want and deserve for myself and the kids..<P>But like you, I find it almost insulting that it took so long and so many people for him to FIGURE THAT OUT!! And now, because he snaps his fingers, I'm supposed to turn around and jump for joy????<P>I look at him now- he is just plain irritating to me! He is NOT that great looking- he talks to much- he ain't THAT great in bed!!!<P>This whole thing has left me angry with him and angry with God....I feel like Job- put up with the losses of ALOT of things- but this is the one area Satan got- and won..<P>I can't bring myself to even go to church...<P>I got so many responses on this site and another- and almost all of them were like- "what was wrong with you, or what were you or the marriage lacking"- uuummmmm- well- I GUESS EVERYTHING and FROM DAY ONE!!!<P>We can't reconcile- there isn't anything to reconcile too...<P>I'm just so angry right now- not even hurt as much as furious that I wasted so much of my time and energy and to be discarded like a piece of old furniture!!<P>Oh well....I'm divorcing him- looking forward to a single life (I'm 30- seems a little pathetic)- and trying to explain over and over to my three kids why I wasn't apparently good enough to keep their father happy- EVER...<P>I had SO MANY more reasons to cheat than he- yet I TOOK MY VOWS seriously! What a joke- and he was out having all the fun!<P>Thanks again for your responses- I'm sorry we've all had to find our way here because of the selfishness and sin of another.<P>TLFM

Divorcing and remarrying the same spouse is far more common than you might believe. Around 15% of all divorced couples wind up remarrying. There probably could be more of this if some of the betrayed or hurt spouses hadn't already moved on to new lives with new mates. The reason I say this is because based on surveys of divorced males (the only one I know about at this point) around 85% of them within 5 years of doing so sincerely regret having left their marriages and wish they had either not done so or that they had another chance.<P>I am not trying in any way to minimize the emotional devastation that you must be feeling - believe me, I have been there. And I don't know that I wouldn't feel exactly as you are feeling if I was in your shoes. But I am confused at why you are feeling let down by God. God gives us all free will and we must exercise it. Some of us do a better job than others when we make choices. Some of us are so desperate to feel good that we make the same bad choices again and again and again. Affairs are addictions - they produce similar "rushes" that drugs can produce. Once the rush wears off, there is generally a big let down - guilt and depression... the "user" (BS) goes for the rush again and again.<P>I certainly understand your feelings of not wanting to go through this again and again as you have already done. Perhaps it truly is time for you to divorce and move on. However, I am troubled by the references you have made to giving it all over to God, yet you are now saying you do not want what God has accomplished for you. You expected God to move in YOUR timeframe and that's not how it works. God moves in HIS timeframe and that often depends on the depth of the issues that the WS has.<P>We often have expectations of God and other people that are not entirely reasonable. There are churches that are true communities and those which are not. I would say that if you are dissatisfied with the way your church has behaved toward you, you need to A) tell them that; and B) find another place to worship where you will feel like you are part of the community. You are the one with the power to find what you need there, and I think you need to do so.<P>I wish you the best... I hope that it is with the man you chose to marry, but I understand if it is not (not that you need MY understanding )<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>