I have a question here for BSs. I’ve been reading a lot of stuff on this board, and I have to say from some of the stories, I hand it to you guys for being able to endure the stuff that your partners are putting you through. I want to know though how long will you wait and for what reasons will that be? <P>As a WH, the decision and act of actually serving divorce papers to W & going through with it is an extremely difficult one to complete. First and foremost it is due to the sense of duty to the family especially so when there are children involved. I feel that we were entrusted to take care of these children until they are able to take care of themselves and no matter how great of a co-parent we can be it will still feel as though we are abandoning them when we divorce. For the W it’s the same too, if she was self sufficient and independent perhaps it would be easier for me cause I know she could take care of herself. If I was Bill Gates perhaps it would be easier too cause I know financially they will be taken care of. But she isn’t and I am not, so here I am.<P>I know my W does not want a divorce and she would do everything within her powers to prevent it. Even if it means enduring me going back to OW, which I have had no contact with for almost 5 mths already. But then again, I don’t know about that. At the moment I try and keep my frustration at bay, I try not to growl too much or say anything that will hurt her. There really isn’t much things to talk about with her except the kids. Personality wise we are quite different. I don’t know. What I am trying to ask is will there ever come a time when the BS will call it a day? Is it possible for BS and WS to come to some sort of consensus on divorce and be willing to sort it out in an amicable way?<BR>

I'm not sure how to answer your question - of course all BSs are not the same.<P>Have you given up on your marriage? If so, your W may never be amicable with you - whether she quits or not. Why should she?<P>Assuming you're doing everything perfectly for a recovering WS, then you haven't given up and she needs to participate in a constructive manner. That said, five months is not very long on the BS time scale of healing. Does she come to this site? Are you two in counseling?<P>I propose that you keep being constructive or get completely constructive. When the time comes that she's ready to recover, she will.<P>WAT

Hi Painforever<P>So far I think you're great for hanging in there - for whatever reasons you give to yourself - guilt, conscience, responsibility - whatever. I am a BS - and there is no way that I would give you any encouragement or information that would make you feel justified to leave your family. You sound like a decent guy and I hope you will continue your efforts with the best interest of your family as a whole in mind. However - I do have one question for you - What would it take for you to get over the OW? If I remember right, she is single and you haven't had any contact for 5 months now. What if she has met someone wonderful and is madly in love with him now and forgotten all about you - would you then put some positive energy into your own marriage? Frankly - that's how I would rather see your story unfold (and mine for that matter!).<P>Good luck<BR>Shakti<P>

As a BS, I am now at the point of "calling it a day" so I can give you my perspective.<P>In the 8 months since Dday, my WS has continued to sabotage all attempts at recovery - resuming contact with OM despite repeated proclamations that the affair was "over". Also, continued lies about the affair being an EA, despite me confirming it is currently a PA.<P>Despite this, I've always hung in there - hoping the fog would lift. Unfortunately, my WS has not only resisted any and all attempts at help (counseling, reading, praying, visiting sites like this one, etc.) and when we did go to counseling, she lied throughout the process.<P>So, for me, it came down to a general sense of hopelessness - that I couldn't make this work alone, that her patterns of deceit were too far ingrained, and that she wasn't willing/able to do the work necessary to help herself thru our process.<P>The kicker for me was giving her a Plan B letter which only generated further denials and accusations of me "tricking" her.<P>I am serving divorce papers at this stage and it is very difficult for me for many of the same reasons you mention - obligation, children, God, my love for her. But, I reached a point that I couldn't endure anymore, so there I go.<P>Wish you all the best!

I have no idea how long I would have "hung in there". I do know that the more time I had, the better. I would have contested a divorce. If we had gotten a divorce it would not have been amicable and we never would have been "friends." I was in Plan A for 6 months, but my H started to come around during the second month. I would hope that you would give it another chance. It's been 2 years for us and we are happier than ever before.

RE: "I know my W does not want a divorce and she would do everything within her powers to prevent it. Even if it means enduring me going back to OW, I know my W does not want a divorce and she would do everything within her powers to prevent it. Even if it means enduring me going back to OW"<P>Don't count on it. I know that in my case if my H were to enter into another affair that would be the end of it. Of course maybe that's what you want to hear. Maybe your real goal here is to end your marriage not work on it.<P>Have you really done all you can to repair your marriage? I have not read all of your previous posts. I could not endure reading them because it seemed to me, from what I did read, that you have been engrossed in your own self pitty and in justinfying wanting to leave your wife for your OW. <P>Have you read the book Surviving an Affair and all the stuff on this website. Have you brought your wife to MB so she can read the material? Have you given her SSA to read? Are you practicing radical honesty with her? Are you spending the required 15-30 hours a week giving your wife undivided attention so that you both have the opportunity to fill each other's love banks? Have the two of you filled out your emotional needs and personal history questionaires? Have you spent the time necessary to answer all of her questions about your affair? If you have not done these things and the many other's prescibed by MB, then you have not done enough to save your marriage and to rekindle the love the two of you had with each other.<P>Five months in a entire life time together is a drop in the bucket. Give your wife and your marriage a lifetime, that is what you promissed to do when you married her.<P>Why don't you bring your wife to this forum so that we can see both sides of the story. So that you can receive joint help here?<P>Your children deserve more then they are getting right now. They deserve for their parents to have a strong, healthy relationship. <P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare<p>[This message has been edited by zorweb (edited June 21, 2001).]

Ok just a thought on this .......before i became a BS i was the type to say........ you cheat youre gone no ifs ands or buts...........but the reality is much different........just keep in mind that a BS can only take so much crap before they have had it...... all BS's vary depending on how strong the indivisual<P>just my thoughts<BR>Love,<BR>Luv

Whether i am recovering inside, i am not sure. Right now i am just going through the actions and motions. Whatever she suggests, I have not resisted much. But I have to admit though, it is a half hearted attempt, its not like the way [H] did it, i can't, i don't feel that way. <P>Because we lived apart during my EMA, there wasn't much confrontations between us, when i go back for the holidays it was just cold and empty. We argued a fair bit but nothing really major, it's been cordial to an extent. Infact that's what it is now. Like I said my EMA almost doesn't seem to bother her at all, unlike the way most BSs reacts in here. It's not about her recovering, its about me. <P>But then again i knew and she knew, our problems started at least 2 years before my affair. Honestly i don't feel guilty for the time i had with OW, it's probably the happiest i've been for years. I can't just get over her, the memories are not as sharp as before, it doesn't hurt that much now but it'll always be locked inside somewhere safe in my heart. I don't think i want to know if she falls in love with someone else.<P>No i don't think W comes to this site. No i am not interested in seeing a counsellor, I find i learn more about myself and this situation just by looking at other people experiences for example through this site eventhough it's a bit one-sided here. We have filled the EN questionaire. I find it difficult to meet hers and i don't think she can meet mine. It's not her. Giving her 15-30 hrs undivided attention is difficult uncomfortable and unenjoyable - i don't really know what to talk about. I am sad at the state of things right now.<P>I know some of the stuff i write are not well received by most of you in here. If u can't take it, you think my W would? There is nothing much i could do right now, just wait and see if these feelings may change. I would probably never be able to be in love with her again and have to just settle for the routiness and stability in it all. I am afraid of one thing though, if this remains and i do endure it all to fulfill my so called vows, what are the chances of me getting into another EMA in the future?

Of coures this site is one-sided it is for MARRIAGE BUILDING. Most that come here are the BS spouse who want marriage to work. Your post makes you and your wife seem so depressing and dare I say BORING! What did u use to do when u first met, did u guys do ANYTHING that was fun together? Emotions should not be forced you are correct in that, but sometimes some people are so consumed with outside forces (could be anything, work, kids, OP, financial issues) that they forget how to enjoy each other. That is where the OP comes in, it's all new, they bring out the child-like, fun-loving person in us that was hidden due to everyday life issues. Hopefully, u and your W can find that again. If not, then you won't be condemned because one person wants to stay stagnant while the other wants more. But, you also won't get the OK here, that says, "OK HE CAME TO THIS SITE, HE TRIED, HE DIDN'T GET THOSE FEELINGS BACK SO JUST DIVORCE". You say:<BR>"No i am not interested in seeing a counsellor, I find i learn more about myself and this situation just by looking at other people experiences for example through this site eventhough it's a bit one-sided here. We have filled the EN questionaire. I find it difficult to meet hers and i don't think she can meet mine. It's not her. Giving her 15-30 hrs undivided attention is difficult uncomfortable and unenjoyable - i don't really know what to talk about. I am sad at the state of things right now."<BR>What are u afraid of by seeing a counselor. You keep saying u have tried, but honestly you haven't because you are turning your back on a very easy action and that would be counseling. How do you know you won't learn anything more from a counselor? Just because you filled out a EN questionnaire does not mean you have done all. You can go to a counselor, either it helps or it doesn't, but you should be open minded about it. If not, then please don't tell us BS's that you have tried all, it is an insult. Because you are lying to us and yourself.

<B><BR>Whether i am recovering inside, i am not sure. Right now i am just going through the actions and motions. Whatever she suggests, I have not resisted much. But I have to admit though, it is a half hearted attempt, its not like the way [H] did it, i can't, i don't feel that way.<BR></B><P>Half hearted attempt... At first I said "I can't and I don't feel that way." Where are your convictions? While the (OW) in your case might not have been similar in attitude, and I know you aren't me. You've got to do man. You can't just try half hearted in an attempt. What was so special about your wife in the beginning you seem to have forgotten now? Still erasing memories? Blocking out good times with your wife? You can't just try... You've got to believe that this woman (your wife) is again everything you've ever wanted. Just like the beginning. It's not that hard to get what "you both want" in a marriage my friend. It's frankly very easy if you follow the steps, ideas, and concepts. in "His needs her needs". You're giving up before you've even started. <P>I dont consider what your doing even trying. Just because you're going through the motions, and doing the actions. It's not going to help you unless you want to be helped. I personally, want to do things on my own. I am learning as much as I can from wherever I can learn. Thats something i'm doing for me. Not because my wife asked me to. I really believe I can make a difference. Besides what have I got to lose? Absolutely nothing. It's a win win situation for both of us. <P><B><BR>Personality wise we are quite different.<BR></B><P>My wife and I are personality wise very different as well. "So what?" We can and do focus on things we can do together. There's an overlap of interests, an overlap of activities we can do together. Thats what I need to focus on. I can't focus on (She's not interested in Networking, Programming, Cars, Her Music Tastes, ETC) There's an overlap. Even with conversation. We can talk about things that interest us both. Goals, Plans, Dreams, Hopes. Interesting activities we might want to check out. What to do this weekend that might sound fun for both of us. And so on...<P><B><BR>Is it possible for BS and WS to come to some sort of consensus on divorce and be willing to sort it out in an amicable way?<BR></B><BR>Going out on a limb here, but it sounds like your doing all the right things for the wrong reasons. Are you working on your marriage "Going through the motions for her" because you feel she will see it's not working. If you're making it look like your trying, so she will say.. "Okay we tried, lets get divorced, this isn't working..." I hope this is not the case. Seems logical to me.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers, Hugs, and Strength from both of us. Things do and can get better. Keep hoping, learning, and growing. Take care of yourself.<P>[H] and Knewjie<p>[This message has been edited by [H] (edited June 21, 2001).]

Ditto what [H] says.<P>There is no try. There is only do. JUST DO IT. Believe.<P>What you think is the way it is...<P>Yeah, I know it's stuff we mouth, but the meaning comes from inside.<P>Pray my friend, listen to God. He will help you find your way. <P><BR>Cali

<<<Like I said my EMA almost doesn't seem to bother her at all, unlike the way most BSs reacts in here. It's not about her recovering, its about me.>>> <P>What is "seems" like and what it actually is like may be 2 different things. I never let my H knew that the pain of his EMR ate my heart alive every day for a looooong time. It wouldnt' have been productive to saving the marriage. Kind of like beating a dead horse. He was doing everything he could already. No need to keep throwing it in his face. It has been 2 years and we are very happy as a couple but I still have pain. He has no idea.

Sometimes the WS keeps the EMR alive in a little box, protecting it, nourishing those memories, spinning each forbidden moment into gold. It's a secret that survives because it exists in a hermetically-sealed time capsule, of sorts. Nothing can touch it - as long as you, painforever, refuse to dissect it, take a look at yourself with all of your faults and foibles, you will never be happy with your W, or with your OW, or with any OW in your future. The weakness lies within the individual. Not the BS, not the marriage. Neither your W nor your marriage caused you to stray; it was something inside of you that was fatally flawed. Something that needs to be mended. Something that *can* be mended.<P>I am hearing conflicting stories ... you say that your W would do anything to keep your marriage intact, and a few lines later you claim that she would not meet your ENs. Which is it? Are you speaking for her? Are you making her decisions for her in your mind? How easy it is to say, "Oh, my spouse will never meet my needs," when the spouse hasn't been asked to meet them, nor have they been given the opportunity. Unless your W has unequivocably told you "No, I will never meet your needs," then to say that she is incapable of meeting them isn't quite the truth, is it?<P>Perhaps if you are not willing to work on the marriage, it is best for your W in the long run. Everyone deserves a mate who is willing to be with someone who thinks so highly of marriage that they will give every inch of their effort trying to make it work. With counseling. Without obssessing about the OW. Without a negative attitude of, "Oh, this isn't going to work ... why bother?" Without ending the marriage in their heart and in their mind before the recovery work has even started.<P>I wish you and your W well. Please remember, though ... what's done cannot be undone. What is spoken can never be retracted.<P>s.

Initially I gave myself a 6 month timeframe...that if I did not see progress in 6 months, I would re-evaluate at that point. My reason for staying at all was kids mostly. I'd say there was little progress for most of that time. Then, right b4 6 months, he began seeing a counselor to deal with feelings abt OW and loss of that relationship, and I decided to give it a bit longer. Shortly after that, things got much, much better.<P>Kathi<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B><BR>Like I said my EMA almost doesn't seem to bother her at all, unlike the way most BSs reacts in here. It's not about her recovering, its about me. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I recognize these words, thoughts, ect.<P><B><BR>I spoke of my wife being in plan A also. I said it was a very weird time for me. That’s very much true. At that time I was still hiding some things from her. When she all ready knew what was going on. I fell into a stage of "We are just friends, nothing is going on" Even after denying accusations to the end. <P>It was almost surreal. On one hand my wife was almost ignoring me. To a point where it looked like she didn't even care. Meanwhile I carried the affair on right in front of her eyes. At times I wondered myself, ("She must know what’s going on? She has got to know? She knows I'm hiding things, I see it in her questions, even the questions she doesn't ask.") The whole thought of her knowing about it, and almost allowing it to happen right in front of her eyes scared me, bothered me on many levels. I expected serious repercussions. <P>I felt I had all ready lost my wife. I can’t lose (OW) also. I hate being alone, and I can’t be alone at times. So many people have abandoned me all ready. My wife it seems abandoned me in our marriage. My parents had done it to me in the past, my friends as well. I couldn’t and wasn’t going to lose another person. So I left home.<P>I had an (A) I came home, my wife knew about the affair. Didn't tell me she knew so I continued to hide it. I asked her for a divorce. I then admitted to the (A). She then told me she knew about it already. I panicked at the retribution and consequences of my actions. I avoided her a lot, but I wasn't ready to give up (OW) just yet. So I had an argument with (OW) which basically we cut our loses. Said our goodbyes, and I figured things were done and over with. So I ran home, and said I'll work on our marriage. ("But I hadn't really been committed to doing so yet.") So I just said these things. I didn't feel these things, or really want these things. I then made up with (OW) and the next day, I turned around and asked my wife that we be separated, as I wasn't sure of divorce just yet. <P>The very fact I was seemingly getting away with everything right in front of her face was Scary to me. Foreign. I never lied to my wife before my affair. I had nothing to lie about. So lying has a tendency to bite you in the [censored] if your not used to doing it. <BR></B><P>------------------<BR>Prayers, Hugs, and Strength from both of us. Things do and can get better. Keep hoping, learning, and growing. Take care of yourself.<P>[H] and Knewjie<p>[This message has been edited by [H] (edited June 21, 2001).]

I doubt that I will ever "call it a day." I love my H just as much as I did before he left over two years ago. Even though the divorce he wanted was final several months ago, even though some of our children want nothing to do with him and think I am nuts, my desire for reconciliation has not been affected. <P>Love is unconditional and permanent.

Just a question--are you HOPING that your wife will "call it a day" and just let you go? That lets you off the hook. Then you won't have to feel guilty over what has happened. Just like my husband repeatedly asked me for a divorce while he was having his affair, but insisted that I file. When I told him to, he got mad. "Why can't we just get a separation, then?" He said, because I refused to file.<P>Funny how this works--we know we are doing something wrong, we just don't want to get caught, and we don't want any tangible evidence of what we have done.

[H],<P>I'm glad that you are here on MB.<P>painforever,<P>I can only agree with what [H] says.

.<p>[This message has been edited by ohmy_marie (edited June 22, 2001).]

Let's see ... in September it will be 3 years for me. There are people who "stand" for their marriages far longer than that - some, forever.<P>I will not divorce my husband, and, like Nellie, love him today just as much as ever. I did a great deal to damage our marriage - I realized that when I found out about the affair. And I have made some major changes TO ME. I was confrontational and easily pushed to inappropriate and exccessively angry outbursts, I was not supportive of him and the things he wanted, I was terribly dependent and nagged constantly, and was actually diagnosed as clinically depressed when I finally went to my doctor and talked to him about this after D-Day. I went on anti-depressants, I realized it was not so important to be right all the time or even any of the time, I bit my tongue before raving about something that aggravated me. I apologized to him for what I had done to damage our marriage, told him I would always love him and wanted an opportunity to make it work for us. I backed up my words with actions. <P>I can live without my husband, have done so since he moved out of our apartment in November of 1998, and am doing well for the most part even though he has moved to another state WITH the slug (OW). I simply don't WANT to live without him because I love him.<P>I pretty much expect that I will be served with divorce papers sometime after September, as that is when he will have been in FL for the requisite 6 months required to establish residency. Florida is a no-fault state from what I have read, but they do have one "catch" - if the court agrees to use it: Both parties must agree that the marriage is irretrievably broken. If one spouse does not believe that the marriage is irretrievably broken, the court MAY, at it's discretion, require mediation or counseling for reconciliation prior to granting a divorce.<P>So ... 2 years and 10 months ... and still standing.<BR><P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>