To Being a better Arik - and to all...<P>First of all thank you Arik for speaking up in my defense. I’m sorry to say Arik that you wore half right and half wrong. I went TOTALLY out of line on tht post and that is why I erased my post. Let me put it in simple points:<P>1) I’m trying to get away from MM<BR>2) It hurts like hell<BR>3) He keeps calling<BR>4) I can not handle that<BR>5) I post here asking ”WHY” MM/He keeps calling<BR>6) I get responses as to how to not make it possible for him to call me ”Except for Zorweb though” (i.e. change phone nr...etc..ect...) - So I get frustrated. I ask a Q and I get no Responses - just advice that I can easily figure out for myself.<P>I’m not in my true sences and I get soo angry because I feel like people are not answering my question - I KNOW IT’s CHILDISH - but nevertheless when you are - correction - when I’M in this state of mind nothing makes sense and so I felt attacked and misunderstood.<P>7) I lash out completely and attack everything in my way.<P>Now - For the AMERICAN-THING. I understand NOW that some of you took it personally - that was never my intention. Since so many of those who post here are from America - It was natural for me to lash out on that - It might aswell had been India or China. The point is that I rebelled or lashed out at the ”Social-structure norm” . And since most of the people on here came from the same country that is what I lashed out on.<P>Now, that’s really irrelevant to me - sometimes I speak before I think ”foot in my mouth” - but never ever was I thinking it as a personal attack on any individual - Just the believe system.<P>Some of you said that I only wanted validation/justification for what I did and that was why I was here. That is both true and not true. <P>Now when the ”ending” is at hand (happening/happened) I pendale from wanting to have validation to wanting to get out of it. One minute I’m strong and committed to my decision and the next I’ll cry like a baby wondering ....wondering....needing to know WHY and screaming perhaps out for validation?. I don’t think I’m very unique in that situation.<P>8) - Had I been drinking? - Of course I had!!! - I watch my mouth/manners/norms/etc......you name it when I’m sober - but sometimes just sometimes you have that drink and all ”hell posts through your fingers on a keyboard - Nevertheless I can not hide behind that. <P>9) I will no longer post here - (Hmmmm.....). The last weeks I have been reading these boards until my brain almost bursed! - As you know I have posted too . BUT I felt like that was all I was doing - reading/posting/trying to get a grip... up to the point that I needed a ”time out” and I need to take one.<P>It’s hard to write this - I didn't have to - but I will do on this board as I do in real life. I hate having ”enemies” and I hate leaving things unresolved so I thought I should write this.<P>I’m not making any excuses for my state of being, not even for the ”out-of mind-post” I wrote. I will never make any excuses for the pain I feel. I just wanted to say I’m sorry If any of you took it personally because that was never my intention. See it like I was shouting out on the whole ”Universe”.<P>So, perhaps you all can be kind of ”friends” again with me ....if not right now Perhaps sometimes in the future? <P>BTW <BR>I’m not seeing the MM - we have had a long and serious talk and we have agreed to not see eachother anymore. He agreed that we couldn’t meet but he said that we can still call eachother now and again and kind of say ”Hi”. I told him that If we are going to do this then we can not even ”just talk on the phone” . He told me that it would be too hard and I almost gave in but I said that It hurts me too much and I don’t want that. He agreed. See - I have learned something here even though I’m a ”pain in the a**” sometimes.<P>When you are all screwed up emotionally you say things you don’t really mean - you just lash out on the whole existence - at least that was what I did. If you do not understand this, then what can I say?<P>Peace!!!!!<BR>HumbleFish<P>

Humblefish, I never posted to you before, never had anything I felt was helpful. I did not see your post before you deleated it.<P>But I will give you the answer to your burning question. Why does MM keep calling? BECAUSE HE WANTS TO TALK TO YOU. <P>Thats the only answer anyone here has, maybe people thought it was a little to obvious to post. If you can already figure out how to stop him from calling, then why is the reason so important? <BR>Lora

I believe I have been kind and caring on all your posts...<P>I also answered your questions, from the viewpoint of an OW, which I was once. <P>Please get some help for the drinking... I used to trade one addiction for the other~~ if it wasn't eating, it was drinking, or the OM, or sex, or spending money I didn't have. I understand the pain behind it... truly.<P>Take care, HF.

(((((Humblefish))))), I realised that you had been drinking as soon as I saw your post - and I have the greatest respect for ANYONE who is courageous enough to freely admit that they made a mistake - it's one of the hardest things for someone to do, and you've just done it.<P>When I first came to this board, I spilled out EVERYTHING surrounding the circumstances of my husbands affair - I'm not going to go into the details - but I too got a bit upset with some of the replies I got, and I too decided that maybe I shouldn't post here anymore. Thank goodness I changed my mind! The very same people that I had been 'upset' with before, are now among those that give me the most support - despite our differences. I can truly think of many people on this board that I consider to be among my most special of friends. <P>I for one, am willing to 'chat' to you anytime. I've done and said some pretty daft things myself in the early days, when the pain and grief just took over - it's only human.<P>I hope your pain is starting to ease a bit now - take care of yourself,<P>Peace, Paint.

HF -<BR>Best wishes to you. You are always welcome here.<BR>My personal motto since my H's affair has been "Better, Stronger, More Aware". Hope you can use these words too.

HF, I believe MM keeps calling you b/c he cares for you, misses you, and is finding it hard to let go.<P>You're absolutely right that you can't "just talk on the phone". It will only prolong the pain. Letting go is the best thing you can do for yourself.<P>As time passes with no contact, you'll feel much stronger. It's not easy, but it can be done. I wish you strength.

What is so sad to me HF is that you view us as the 'enemy' and think we view you as the 'enemy'. That is your perception and it is as false as it can be.

HF,<P>Well, this is what withdrawal feels like and it is bad. You are however, doing better than most and attempting to see things as they are. For that you have my respect. You know what the alcohol does to you and know what to do with that also. Getting help for the withdrawal from here is good but getting help from the alcohol will help you cope with everything. <P>I am sorry you are having to go through this. You have good characteristics, keep them in your forefront. Prompt those good attributes in your life and you will be a happier more content person. <P>As far as the OM, he may 'like' you but really really is selfish since he is putting his personal feelings ahead of his own. You gave him a lot of attention. He wants more at your expense. REMEMBER THAT!!! <P>Would you allow a total stranger, neighbor, co-worker, relative to walk all over your life (abuse), take your property (stealing) and then come back and regularly visit with you on friendly terms, smile in your face and rob you some more? Oh I hope not. You should have more respect for yourself than that. <P>I am not scolding you HF, I am trying to help you see where the OM is really coming from. Please remember that when his sweet words attempt to cross your ears. You are better than that. You need to settle for a 'real man' who can be real for you, not a 1/2 a man with divided interests. A man like that is not of much value to anyone, even himself. <P>So, come here for help, you are welcome to post here. We understand you are in withdrawal. Consider that most of the 'strong' statements here are done with an aim to help. We have all received a good swift kick in the pants to keep our santity. Hang in there girl. <P>Don't worry about the nationality stuff. There are people here from all over the world. Most are Americans but the issue here is worldwide. Maybe some of the resources are not available to all but we can help each other adapt. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.<BR>

When I feel like when I’m are in a ”corner” - or when I have put myself in the very same ”like I have” I attack to get out of it - I do, and sometimes I hurt people I love because I’m so in my own ”corner” I don’t know how else to get out of it. That is my way - perhaps that is wrong - Live and learn as they say .<P>BrokenDreamsX<P>”What is so sad to me HF is that you view us as the 'enemy' and think we view you as the 'enemy'. That is your<BR>perception and it is as false as it can be.”<P>I don’t really view you as the ”enemy” but knowing that I have done something ”bad/wrong” and still feeling the ”love even though it is for the wrong man” It makes me kind off walk on eggshells. - As you hinted EVERYTHING is about perceptions. Mine/yours/societies......you name it.....<P>O have always been a person to question everything, I don’t like a ”served plate” of norms and that is perhaps why I question too much. That is not to say that all norms are wrong!!!! - just questioning!<P><BR>Lora<P>....”If you can already figure out how to stop him from calling, then why is the reason so important?”.......<P>Love Lora Love......or at least that is what I thought - Isn’t Love important enough to ask all Q until you are SURE? . <P>Well I have woken up to some kind of semi-reality so my ”pink-glasses” are off but the feelings are not gone. I’m just trying to put them aside now and be rational.<P>Hope that answered your Q <P><BR>Nyneve<P>Ahhhhhh - Drinking!!!!!!1 - My old ”paintaker”! Let’s just say that I’m dealing with that one. Thank you for caring though! It’s not as bad at it might seems - but then again It comes off pretty nasty when I post the way I did. I do appreciate your responds. I hope you know that!<P><BR>Susie7753<P>I know - MM well xMM and I had a long talk this week and we agreed not to contact or talk to eachother again. As painful as it is it is how we are trying to do it.<P>PAINTBOX <P>Who are you lady? - No really thanks! - I would love to chat with you to - anytime. Seems you can see right through me even when I’m ”Nasty” (((Hugs right back at you)))<P>Thanks for not letting me sit in the ”shame-corner” and again sorry for all the ”fuss” I made!<BR>HumbleFish<BR>

Hi Humblefish:<P>After reconsidering your "rant" post I decided that you really were just frustrated and wasted....but like you we have initial reactions to posts that aren't always throught through but are kind of knee jeck reactions.<P>No one here wants you to leave...there is always something to be learn from one in this situation...on any side. You have to understand where we're coming from and give us a little slack...we'll try to do the same for you...and generally we are really trying.<P>Please feel free to post whenever you want...I don't think we need to run anyone away...if you need a little time, take it...although I think right now is when you need support...but anyway come back when you need to.<P>I honest feel that although what you and MM feel towards each other may be real and the separation may be painful...for both of you...the time and the place were not right for this...and with the guilt and suffering it would inflict, would come to destroy it in the end. So better to get out now while you can at least stop the suffer for some people.<P>Faye

Orchid<P>Thanks for your post - I would like to answer it more ( It had very many things that stroke a cord) but I'm on my way out) - I think you posted at the same time that I did to the others. Just so you don't think I ignored you.<P>See you

HF- For many reasons, I can identify with your situation. this is why I have been reading most of your posts. I will say that you are going to have a tough time. I don't mean that to sound discouraging at all...honestly. What I do mean is for you to be prepared and to get ready for a struggle. In the long run you will be much better off for having fought this battle. In my affair, OW and I said over, and over, and over, and over etc, etc, that we would not talk to each other anymore because what we were doing was not right, and it was causing her H my W so much pain. We always ended up talking again. It took an awful lot of watching my W completely break down in front of me, to get to a point where I knew it was time to stop. If you can get past the uncomfortable feeling of coming here after an outburst....do that! Come here daily, hourly if you need to. There are so many people who can give you the support that you will need. I know all too well what it feels like to lash out in a completely unacceptable manner, to say horrible hurtful things. Only to realize after they have been said, that you are hurting people. Once said, they can not be taken back, unfortunate, but true. Take care HF, and please, please give it your all, and when you can't give anymore and you are about to give up...let everyone here hold you up and get you started again. You will make it through this. Take care of you.<BR>Arik

HF,<P>To answer one of your questions about why the MM keeps calling you, it is my opinion from what I experienced and what I have read that he does it because he is selfish.<BR>He is placing himself above all others. His feelings are more important than yours, his wife and his family.<BR>He may want to do what is right but the "high" he gets from talking to you and seeing you feels so good that he doesn't want to give it up. He also doesn't want to give up his wife and all that he has there, so out of selfishness he "strings" you both along.<BR>I don't mean to sound harsh so please don't take it the wrong way but I honestly believe that the only person your MM is thinking about is himself. <BR>It is time you started thinking about yourself and moving on so you can get into a healthy relationship with somebody that truly cares about <B>YOU</B>.<P>Please take care of you<P>We do care<P><P>------------------<BR>Love and Prayers<BR>Nicole

Hi Humblefish,<P>Perhaps it was a bit of the “cultural differences” and a few other things, but we weren’t “ganging” up on you.<P>We know it’s difficult for you. It will take a while for you to adjust to what you are trying to doing & what you are going through. Go ahead & get mad at us, but take a breath when you are through & try to understand what we are saying to you.<P>The MM keeps calling you because you answer his calls. If you don’t answer his calls, after a time, he will stop.<P>Be strong & let us know how you are doing.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Frankly I think it would be helpful to everyone here if you continue to post the brutal honest truth about your own withdrawel. Maybe it will help the spouse in PLAN A deal better with their cheating spouse.<P>Perhaps there is something to gain in seeing your own turmoil and then those here can better handle their reactions to their spouse who is trying to do the right thing but in withdrawel.<P>Just my 2 cents!