Hey, y'all know me in my other life as an old timer poster. I am here under a different name for many reasons, all of which I know that you would understand if I were to enumerate them. I would appreciate it if anyone who has any clue about my secret identity PLEASE RESPECT MY CHOICE and understand that I have no intention to mislead my friends here in any way. I am simply not able to do this connected to my 'other self' and need this alter ego at the moment.<P>The alter ego is here today because I need your help. Anyone who feels they can contribute to this thread in a constructive and supportive manner, please feel free.<P>A friend - member of the opposite sex (no yelling, please - I know all the arguments) - is having a very difficult time right now. Spouse is involved in EA and has expressed the typical "confusion", "dissatisfaction", not sure about the marriage anymore - the standard fare. The friend has confided in me about the difficulties and I have given the Plan A outline. I am reinforcing with my own experiences, but cannot point to my own success with the MB practices, other than the success I've had working on ME (pretty important stuff, actually). Friend is in a great deal of emotional pain and I am very empathetic to it, having been there too recently and too long (a minute in this is too long, I know).<P>I have, as many of us have, given the web address of this site, offered to lend books, and suggested reading the forums. I think that the site was visted, articles read, but there is some resistance to the idea of books or forum at this time. I suspect an independent and stubborn streak that is part of what caused the situation to be possible in the first place.<P>My friend has recognized many of the contributions to the situation and is working hard to fix those issues that have been identified. However, in the meantime, it seems that the OP has stepped up the 'crusade' from that end, and that EA may soon become PA as so many of them do. Spouse has 'announced' some of the plans for the weekend and seems to be deliberately hurtful sometimes, while expressing sympathy at other times.<P>I have stressed patience and Plan A behavior, but for some I know it is difficult - and the naturally impatient have a great deal of difficulty, wishing and hoping to see results right away. Even when there is the intellectual understanding of the reasoning, it is terribly difficult to live with the kind of gaping wound this situation causes as too many of us here know.<P>I am asking for other suggestions of how to support this friend, and asking for your support in helping me keep my very vulnerable self out of the kind of trouble that could be on the horizon. I cannot NOT listen. Enough betrayal has already occurred for this person and I cannot turn my back - I refuse to turn my back - I remember too well what this feels like and the excrutiating pain of it all.<P>Don't want to be a martyr - just a friend and only a friend, but as you all know, the heart and hormones are funny things, and sometimes we can find ourselves looking at the infidelity monster in the mirror instead of in the OP. Don't want to go there, no way, no how.<P>You know me.<P>S-Buster<BR>~~~~~~~~~~<BR>Who you gonna call?<BR>Have salt, will travel.<BR>

IMHO, it would depend on how good of a friend this is to you. Have you known this person for long? If so, then there are probably boundaries that have already been set, and are less likely to be crossed.<P>You've asked a real toughie; one that is coming up on here more and more recently. Again, IMO, I would say to help this person. But that's because I do not have a problem with people of the opposite sex supporting each other in situations such as these. To say otherwise would be contradictory on my part, as I have already corresponded with a few MBers (of both sexes) via emails, chats, and ICQ. As far as I'm concerned, they have been some of the best venting sessions for me! (and hopefully for them too) <P>Of course, I also believe that this person would be helped more once they get a good grasp on the Harley principles. If you can be assured of that, and they agree with them, then be a good friend.<P>I also think that all of this boils down to gut feelings. If you are worried about possible 'incidents', then do not be there for this person. And if you can trust yourself to recognize if things are getting off course, and can honestly stop it immediately, then be there. Go with the gut... in my life, it's been about 99% right.<P>Karen<BR>

S Buster - I sense that you've already crossed the line. If so, back off, tell your friend that he/she needs some second opinions, and this forum is the place to start. Run, don't walk, to the nearest exit.<P>If I'm wrong, you've already identified the vulnerability and know what is right. Just keep your distance. You know that the one thing this situation DOESN'T need is another moving part.<P>Regardless, point this friend in the direction of a counselor. Heck - make some calls to counselors yourself, explain your experience, your friend's situation, and make the appointment for your friend. Sometimes stubbornness gives up when most obstacles are removed.<P>WAT

Thanks, Topie, WAT. I am pointing and pointing, but as I said, there is that resistance. Making an appointment for my friend would be somewhat inappropriate for me to do, though - no?<P>Will write more later, I am definitely reading and reading, though. <BR><P>------------------<BR><BR>S-Buster<BR>~~~~~~~~~~<BR>Who you gonna call?<BR>Have salt, will travel.

Hi S-buster,<P>Just wanted to welcome you to the board and bump you back up to the top...I agree with WAT...I don't have any more advice for your friend right now as my brain isn't working straight this morning! Hopefully I'll be able to comment more later,<P>Take care,<BR>Paint.

It is so easy to cross a line. If you recognize vulnerability in yourself I would take that as a VERY BIG RED FLAG!!! <P>How many times do we later come back and say, I saw the red flags and just went on anyway??!! Listen to those red flags!! They are there for a purpose!! To prevent you from crossing any lines!!<P>If you feel you must continue to talk to this person, then explain honestly about the red flags, your vunerability, your committment to your spouse, and that you feel the only way you can continue to offer advice is in the presence of a third person. E-mail and phone conversations included!!!<P>There is no way you can go back after you have crossed a line. No way to erase the guilt you will feel if you cross that line. The best thing to do is to not cross it in the first place, or stop dead in your tracks if it's too late.<P>peace

Thank you all for your candor and concern.<P>I know I am quite capable of drawing a line if one needs to be drawn, and I WILL draw that line.<P>I do not think that a line will need to be drawn here. This is a person in love with a spouse who is in the fog. A person who WANTS to 'marriage build.' I believe that my own experiences can help - and my belief in marriage building is very strong.<P>Again, Thank you.<BR><P>------------------<BR><BR>S-Buster<BR>~~~~~~~~~~<BR>Who you gonna call?<BR>Have salt, will travel.