Sometimes, I feel like I'm beating a dead horse. My situation still stands as is: after discovering my 6-month affair, which he did over two months ago, my H has not left but will not take any moves to begin work on saving our marriage.<P>He still won't touch me, won't talk about our relationship and where it's going, has twice said he was getting an apartment but has done nothing toward moving out. He won't make any effort (or respond to MY efforts) to spend time with me, and even resists my attempts to plan family activities.<P>Today I wanted the three of us (H, me and son) to go to a nature center in a neighboring town, take a picnic lunch, etc. and have a fun family outting. H said, "You guys go ahead."<P>I just don't know what to do anymore. I feel like I'm really trying. I'm not getting any results. More and more, I really believe that time itself isn't going to change anything. What good does it do to give H time, if he's not doing anything productive with that time? I am trying hard to keep plan A'ing. My H could care less. <P>Plus I'm getting angrier and angrier. He just wants me to ask him to leave, to end the marriage. He doesn't want to take any responsibility for anything: the failure of our marriage, the rebuilding of our marriage, or the ending of our marriage. Looks like I have to do it all. Sometimes lately I look at him and I can feel myself changing inside, feeling the love start to slip away. He seems so different from the man I married.<P>I don't really have a question, I guess....just venting. Trying not to give up, trying to have hope. But thinking more and more of an alternative life.<P>calla

Calla, <P>I find it interesting here that you do not mention that your husband has been having an EN for the last 1.5 years. Unrequited as it might be, it has certainly contributed to your having an affair and the continued deterioration of your marriage. Is there a particular reason for this? Just wondering. <P>I’ve been concerned about you. You have not posted much lately. <P>I feel terrible because I told you I’d find that post for you but have not been able to yet… partially because I’ve been having something of an emotional melt down myself this week. <P>I can see why you want to move on. Nothing much has changed has it? Except for you. You are changing. And I believe that’s a good sign. Can you go a while more plan A’ing but at the same time taking more care of yourself? Is it possible that you could continue to meet his needs as much as he will let you while at the same time taking care of yourself more? If you become stronger emotionally, then perhaps when he throws things at you like yesterday when he said you were too needy, how he could live without sex and affection. Perhaps if you could respond to him in strength and love that you are buying his cr…p, perhaps then he will start to change? Or am I grasping at straws.<P>It does seem that he wants you to throw him out, that way you are the bad guy. Have you thought much about giving him the choice of choosing your marriage or choosing whatever else this is he thinks he wants? The Plan B letter giving him that choice. In it you could lay out exactly what he would need to do to stay and work on your marriage. Otherwise HE can choose to leave.<P>Then it is his choice and not yours. Remember that Plan B should be entered into before you have lost all of your love for your husband.<P>I am so sorry for the pain you are in.<P>Z<BR><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Hi Calla. Just wanted to let you know I was here. Thanks for your post on my thread BTW, <P>The reason he is probably not too responsive is the fact that he is in his own EN, and that needs to play out before he will want to work on your marriage. Couple the EN with your affair and I'm sure you can see why he's not very eager to try. I think you'll either have to wait it out, or take your chances and do a plan B.<P>In your case though, I think plan B is pretty risky given all that has happened, but at least you will be able to go on with your life while he is figuring things out for himself. You may want to write it up and have it handy...<P>Can you take much more of this? How much? Until you hit that point, just keep plan A'ing!!<P><<hugs>> sorry you are in so much pain!<BR>HbH<P>

Zorweb,<BR>So sorry to hear you've been having a bad week. Have you posted about that? I haven't noticed any postings by you recently, but maybe I've just missed them--in which case, sorry! Tell me more about what's going on.<P>But, I have noticed that you are a prolific poster to others, and it's just wonderful to see you helping so many people here--I know it's really appreciated.<P>What I've come down to now is trying to decide on an acceptable time limit for continuing my plan A. This is a really subjective question. I've seen some people go WAY beyond what I would be willing to do, and then there seem to be others who actually give up without giving it much of a try. With that in mind, I'm thinking of setting H's birthday, Sept. 9, as my limit. <P>That gives him a little over two more months to show me some sign of life. Some sign that he's willing to try. I know that generally a solid six months seems to be the recommended timeframe, but honestly, I don't think I can make it that long without ANY encouragement from him. My proposed deadline would make it about 5 months of plan A since d-day. And since I can already notice my feelings changing, I don't think I can honestly extend myself much past that without a serious loss of love.<P>What do you think? I do struggle with knowing I am not the world's most patient person. But then I always balance that by thinking it doesn't matter how patient I am if I'm the only one trying.<P>Thanks, Z, for your concern. And don't worry about that guilt posting you are looking for, whenever you get the chance. I'm sure you have bigger things to worry about!<P>Calla

hurtbyhubby,<BR>Thanks for your response...it's funny, I think I addressed your questions to me about plan A/plan B in my response to Zorweb.<P>I agree that it would be risky to do plan B right now, although I am sometimes tempted. Mainly, I get tempted when I start thinking about how lonely I felt BEFORE I had my A...and how here I am STILL feeling lonely. I have been hoping that my H and I could rise from the ashes of both his EA and my PA and have a much better relationship than ever before. As time goes on though, my hopes are slipping through the cracks.<P>Thanks for thinking of me...<BR>calla

Calla,<P>I just found the follwing on the D/D board. It made think of a letter you could write your husband. I am not suggesting that you give this to him... just thought you could understand it and perhaps it could help you in some way....<P>Z<P>Dear Abby,<BR>After spending yet another night alone while my husband was out having a few beers with his friends, I decided to write him the following thank you note:<P>Thank you for the countless times you've gone out with your friends and left me home alone; it's made me realize I'm pretty good company.<P>Thank you for withholding your affection; you taught me I can live without it.<P>Thank you for refusing to do anything around the house; it's made me realize I can do just about anything myself.<P>Thank you for finding reasons not to spend time with me; it's made me learn to appreciate spending time alone.<P>Thank you for never sitting down to talk to me; the quiet time has allowed me to re-evaluate my life.<P>But most of all, and I mean this sincerely, thank you for giving me nine lonely years to realize with conviction that I can walk away from you and survive!<P>Your "in name only" wife.<P>

My 2 cents...<P>Quit focusing on him & your relationship. Do what YOU want to do (not dating of course)...take son on picnic, go out with girlfreinds, take a class in basketweaving, get a new haircut or try a new hobby, whatever you would like to do for YOU. Don't leave your H totally alone, be polite and nice, give him a chance to go on the occasional picnic or movie, but if he does not want to, GO ANYWAY.<P>Sitting around waiting on him is not an attractive trait. Would you guys have ever fallen in love in the first place if you'dd been hovering around worried abt making him talk or work on things? I doubt it.<P>He has some internal work to do, and you can't really help with it right now, so take a break. Besides, you deserve a break!!!<P>Kathi

Calla,<P>Good post from kam6318 as she says it simply. You are not ready for Plan B yet so don't go there until you are. But Plan A, the way you have been doing it, is getting too painful.<P>A book comes to mind "The Rules". Don't know if you are anyone else here has read it but boy did it hit home. I read it after I left my XH. It was all the things my mother and grandmother told me. I thought the world had changed, that guys were different. Yea right!!!! lol It's a light read. You might get something out of it.<P>As for your question about me. I did post a few times here when I was down. Most recently my "the funk" post a week or two ago. I guess as much as I can ramble on in other people's posts I get writer's block when I want to post something about myself. I feel so whinny. Though when I did post I did get a lot of help. I think that the reason I post so much to others is that their posts get my mind going. I have gotten so much out of doing it. I think that why I've been on over load. It's like I've had hours of counseling a day. I am dealing with things that I surpressed for quite some time. This site has been amazing for me. So though I have no started many of my own posts, I have not wanted for support.<P>In addition, have you ever noticed how much easier it is to run someone else's lives then it is to run our own? LOL.. <P>I'm smiling here thinking of you and all the others on MB who have become my friends. <P>Z<BR><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

To Zorweb and Kam6318,<BR>I guess you guys are right and I should just take it easy. Maybe that would be easier except...I had an affair, and it reminded what it felt like to be loved and appreciated and admired again. I feel like a traitor saying that, but...it's how I feel right now.<P>The past few days, the more my H ignores me, the more I think about OM. Again, I amost hate to admit that, but it's true!! Even though I love my H and want my marriage to work, ending my A was incredibly painful because i was actually turning away a person who wanted to love me and have a relationship with me. But I did end it, because I knew it was wrong and I did still love my husband. Even so, I still go back and forth with it. I hate divorce. I hate thinking of ending my marriage and what it would do to all of us--me, H and our son. It breaks my heart. But I so much want to be in love again...!<P>And then I start thinking...what if he won't ever love me again? What if he can't forgive me or get past this situation we find ourselves in? What if he is just content to continue living here with me in the spare bedroom, and this could go on for years, unless I'm the one to make it change? <P>I guess I should find comfort in the fact that I have a plan, since I worked that out earlier in this thread. I guess I should just suck it up and hold to my plan A/plan B scheme. But I wish I could get OM out of my head today. I dreamed about him last night. I don't like where my thoughts are going but I don't seem able to control them right now.<P>Here's the part when I start going back to my question of "Am I weak because I have this need to be loved?" I mean, the way my H treats me lately, sometimes I feel like I'm just plain crazy keeping this going. Remind me again why I keep trying to make this cold, distant man love me when there's at least one warmhearted, caring one out there who I know wants the chance to be with me?<P>Yeah, yeah, I know why...because the one I married is the one I should be with, the one I made the vows to, etc. Except that back when I married him, he actually loved me!!!<P>Well I'm certainly not making my mood any better here, am I?? Sorry guys, and thanks for the good advice. Now if I can just follow it...<P>calla

What if there's no love at all anymore?<P>Now I am wondering if I DO even have any love for my H anymore.Sometimes I think I'm just "trying" because I'm on some kind of crazy autopilot.<P>The OM let me glimpse some real happiness. Don't I deserve that? And the love i felt/feel for OM...what to do with that?<P>Maybe I just met the wrong guy first.<P><BR>Calla

Calla,<P>I think I told you in an earlier thread that my XH basically refused to be physically affectionate or intimate with me for the last 7 of our 14 years of marriage. I know why I stayed so long. I explained that to you. But I don’t know how I did not have an affair. On one hand I am very glad that I did not. But on the other hand I wish I had. I wasted 7 years of my life with a man who did not even like me much less love me. <P>I may get a few people angry with me with this post. But I believe what I am about to say.<P>Though I believe that affairs not the way to go, I can understand why you had one. Your husband started to ignore our months before you had your affair. Your husband is being abusive. He claims to be a religious man? His behavior is totally against what is taught in the Bible. He was loving and affectionate to you when he married you. At that point he needed these things too. I still stick by my belief that he is withholding these things from you in a passive aggressive attempt to express his anger. We’ve discussed this at length before. <P>RE: “Maybe that would be easier except...I had an affair, and it reminded what it felt like to be loved and appreciated and admired again.”<P>Your affair was wrong. You know that. But your husband was purposefully not meeting many of your needs. He basically backed out of your marriage before you had the affair. Today he continues to do nothing to repair your marriage. He has done many things to hurt your marriage too. <P>After what I went through I would never advise anyone to stay in a cold marriage. You have been Plan A’ing your heart out since your affair. Your husband refuses to give up his EA and whatever other fantasy he has. <P>As I said earlier you will know when you are ready for Plan B. It might be that this is the time for Plan B. Is there really going to be any earth shattering differences between now and September? Probably not. So do it when you are ready, not based on some pre-determined timetable. Remember you have been plan A’ing based on the time frame of your affair, not on the beginning of your H’s EA. That is a much longer time. After this last post of yours, perhaps this is the time. Perhaps you are ready to move on with your life unless your husband makes an immediate change in his willingness to recover your marriage. The timing of this is your choice.<P>I can understand how painful it was for you to give up someone who wanted to be with you to be with someone who does not seem to care if you are there or not. Are you thinking that the OM is willing to start up a relationship with you? The problem I see here is that if you want to leave your marriage for the OM, what are the chances that he is actually going to be there for you? You may end up in a situation where you have neither. <P>My advice to you is that if you go into Plan B, then do not do it to be with the OM. Do it for yourself. Be on your own for a while. Yes it will be difficult but you will need that time to be you again. <P>I believe in the sanctity of the marriage vows. However your husband has broken those vows. <BR>You are going through an angry stage here. That is actually good. Yes having a plan is a big plus. But you can alter it to fit your comfort zone.<BR>Z<P><BR> <P>

Zorweb,<BR>Yes, I think it may be time for Plan B. The only problem is that I really HATE being backed into the corner as far as having to be the one to make it happen. It's just not fair that he can't take responsibility for anything here...but hey, I've said that before.<P>As for the OM, well, I feel pretty certain that he still wants to be with me. Deep down I have some reservations about going from one relationship right into another, knowing this is not the most healthy pattern. But, to be honest, if I WAS single I don't know if I could fight the urge to see him and be with him if he still wanted me. This is admittedly a problem with plan B. If my H does move out, it will be even harder for me to stay away from OM whille I'm supposed to be "waiting" for H to decide to come around.<P>I am really struggling with honesty. Though this whole process, I wind up telling some lies all the way around (typical WS behavior, I know) but I'm tired of that lifestyle. And I keep looking at my H and thinking, "If he DID want to touch my (physically or sexually), would I even still want him? I wish I could say yes, but I really have my doubts.<P>The whole time i was involved in my A, I told OM that if my marriage did end, I didn't want it to be because i was leaving H for another person .I felt (and still feel) that if my marriage ends it should be because the relationship is not viable, not just because I found a "more attractive option."<P>That seems to be what's happening now. I don't even know who my H is anymore. All he can say is "How could you have sex with someone else?" and all I can say is, "How could you fall in love with another woman and stop loving me?" It's just a broken record.<P>Plus, lately I feel stronger about getting a new job or going back to work full time and getting myself out of this mess. I'm sure it will be harder than I could expect or prepare myself for...but I have a sense that I could get through it intact. I am haunted by the unanswered questions about the fall of my marriage, but I feel this will be the case no matter what.<P>I agree with you about the fact that probably nothing would change between now and September anyway. My H makes it clear all the time that he doesn't want to try to be closer to me at this time. Why would I think or hope that he will magically feel different a couple months from now?<P>Maybe my heart is hardening. This is scary for me. I know I will carry scars from what has happened in my marriage. Having cheated, I know that anybody can. I also will find it hard to have faith in anyone's love for me since my H pledged his love to me and managed to lose that love somewhere along the way.<P>Well, Z, again not sure what I'm saying here. Just rambling. Wish you didn't live so far away, we could go have coffee right about now.<P>Thanks for being the good friend that you are.<P>Calla

I know it is hard, but you MUST end what you have with your H well before you start anything up with any man, let alone OM.<P>You, the OM, and your child all deserve this. <P>You know that, I can tell. Sure, it's easy to give up on your marriage and run to OM, but could you live with yourself 2 months from now, a year, 20 years? I could not.<P>Listen to Zorweb. She has some good advice. It is tough, but you will make it through this. Try to focus on you and not OM, it will just cloud things otherwise!!

Hi Calla - sorry I've been a bit 'out of things' for a few days now. I can't seem to think of any good replies when I'm on a 'down' myself! It's not been a bad down, but just enough....I'm getting out of it again now though <P>Zorweb and Kam, as usual, have some excellent advice for you. Yes - DO concentrate on YOU now. I'm just getting to that point myself, bit by bit - have started looking in the papers for events to go to. Being summer we have a lot of free concerts in the parks that I AM going to go to this year - and I can take the kids along too, so no need to find babysitters!<P>Take care Calla,<BR>hugs Paint

Calla,<P>What a day!!! Just now getting a chance to check in. Actaully I was reading the forums at work but did not want to post. I'm having enougth trouble concentraiting since d-day. <P>I'd love to be able to go for the cup of coffee. Actually, you never know when I might be in MD. We have family there.<P>You're in a tough spot here. I understand you feelings that you do not want to have your hand forced by your H. I hope you can come to some peace soon. <P>By the way, I saw your posts to "Too Late For me". She sure chewed you up an never seemed to bother to listen to what you had to say. Hope you did not let it get to you. It sounds like she is falling apart night.<P>Let us know how you're doing.<P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Hi Zorweb,<BR>Yes, i agree, TooLateForMe was not being very nice to me. I tried not to take it personally, but it really gets to me when people do not have open minds!!! I still can't figure why she even bothered to come here for any kind of advice if she knew she wouldn't stay with her husband. Oh well, can't worry that much about anyone else's life, got my own things to resolve!<P>How are you feeling today? I read a long post by your H to someone yesterday or the day before...can't remember who it was to right now, but it was long and very thorough. I still don't know all the circumstances of your story, but in any case it certainly looked as though your H has come around to the right place and has all the right thoughts in his head.<P>Thinking of you today and hoping all is well with you...<P>Calla<BR>Let me know when you're ever in MD!!! Coffee!!!<BR>

Then we're on the next time I'm in MD!! My step children are there right now visiting their mom.<P><BR>If you're interested here's my first post. It's the "short story" of why I'm here at MB. Yes my H has come a long way as has our relationship.<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000730.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000730.html</A> <P>Keep us posted.<P>Z<P><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Calla:<P>I've been reading up on the past few months of your saga as well as Cascade's. <BR>I was wondering if you've read up on what Cascade is going through. Your situation is similar. Perhaps the two of you could provide one another with insight. <P>You seemed in good spirits with this morning's post. I hope you're doing well.<P>There is one thing you should be very sure of. You have been trying DAMN hard at Plan A with absolutely NO support from H. When everything hit the fan, you drew away from your OM and poured countless effort into righting your wrong. Or at least trying to heal your marriage from it. And most importantly, as Z pointed out, HE withdrew and started breaking his vows long before your A. Your A was wrong, however, nothing more than the result of his actions, or lack there of. If you are beginning to feel like Plan B is the way to go at this point, then start. Perhaps when your H sees you are fed up with his lack of trying he will come around, you never know. FIND things to do for you and your child, FIND a full time job, START seeing a way to stand on your own two feet. This does not mean abandon your H, simply start living for YOU, as Kam put it. And if he wishes to start coming around, then he will. If he has no resolve about abandoning the your marriage, his CHILD, and letting it all fall to crap, then he does not deserve you as a wife. And it's time to live.<P>Djinn<P>