I've been fairly silent about my own status, but not alot has changed. I'll summarize the situation, and any advice is always appreciated.<P>Plan B is looming, but I've not wanted to provide a date, partly because I don't know the date, and also out of some fear of not taking the plunge....therefore, didn't want to talk too much about it and then not pull the trigger. There, I've said it. Just for the record, "our" house is now in my name, refinanced to pay off some debt, and she has her house. She uses her maiden name mostly. She asked for less money than she could get in court, so keeping it amicable has had its advantages. She's had nothing to get upset over. My fear is that with this Plan B, she goes ballistic, and tries to make my life miserable, using this as an excuse to become really nasty. I doubt it, but it is a possibility. That could force me to move, which I'd rather not do.<P>But I know the old statement, not to let fear stop me. Give me a kick if you feel it is necessary.<P>However, I believe I've got to do it, and it has to be within the next two weeks, because the timing couldn't be better. Selfish WS is going on some vacation, likely with OM, and I'm taking the kids to see my folks for my vacation. I just learned that she booked two weeks off work, but I'm only taking a week, so I don't know what she is up to. Anyway, the timing is great because starting today, I'll have the kids about 22 of the next 28 days...including three weekends in a row. She'll go almost two weeks without them at one stretch.<P>My thinking on Plan B is she'll get the letter before her trip, and hopefully that will spark lots of discussion between her and OM, they'll argue and it will be a damper for the trip, PLUS she'll miss the kids and have the realization that I cannot have a relationship with her under these circumstances. Perhaps it'll blow over like a summer breeze, but I'm hoping not. Sound like a good plan?<P>I don't know what is really going on with OM. Officially a friend, but he is at her place all the time, and I think she sleeps at his place when she doesn't have the kids. My kids talk about him all the time, my daughter asks if he is my friend, it is really sickening. And now, my MIL, who was very close to me throughout this whole mess, and always said "I wish I could get that guy alone and tell him some things, like to leave my daughter alone"....well, suddenly she wasn't calling, and I detected a change in her weather. Sure enough, coincided with a sudden increase in relations with my wife....and OM is now present for their get togethers. I shouldn't be surprised. I'm sure she feels ackward, but this alone has been one reason why I figure Plan B it has to be.<P>What is really going on? Could they be friends, are they now really a couple (if you know me, you may know that his parents said they'd disown him if he became involved with a woman that has kids). Have they said the heck with his parents? Do they just continue to have an intimate and fun affair behind the scenes just for pleasure? Is it possible for them to be only friends now? Doubt that very much. But when will the realization hit and the infatuation stop? You know, those in love feelings.<P>Quite honestly, I have little interest in the actual thought of being with her. She is just so bizarre, and so deceptive, phoney, and lies all the time. Could my feelings change? I just assume they could, but don't know. I'm sort of on MB auto right now.<P>We spend little time together, but do something the odd time. I don't have much hope that she can snap out of this. If you dont' know, she never had a "single and social" lifestyle when young. Got married young (20), and started talking a bit last Feb. (2000) that she needed to have that lifestyle, get out more. But it was in the context of our marriage never being questioned. I let her do as she pleased, and she started going out all the time. Eventually, we were getting distant, and then OM arrives on the scene. So this was more than just an affair. A complete lifestyle change that she missed out on.<P>That is enough rambling. Any thoughts or advice appreciated. I will repost my Plan B letter in the next couple of days, so feedback there appreciated too.<P>Thanks everyone.<p>[This message has been edited by Rick37 (edited June 24, 2001).]

One thing I forgot, that I found rather interesting. Apparently her co-worker said that my wife has said something of the effect "oh well, if this all doesn't work out, <Rick37> would take me back". The problem is I don't know how recent this came from my wife, but I know that it was relayed by the co-worker within the last month. It may be stale news though.<P>When I heard that, I was ready to print the letter right away.

Rick,<P>LOL, ya its hard to know how to feel about that. After all plan a is all about letting them know we beleive in our marriage and them and can make it better than ever.<P><BR>But its rather irritating to have them so sure that we are sitting here waiting for them to have their fun, like we have nothing better to do or noone better to do it with <P>I think you are getting ready for plan B soon, sounds like you are at the point of being a little numb about it... <P>That just friends thing. Resiliant gives me a hard time about it... she says I am still in denial over that.... my H told me the just friends so much I think I really started to beleive it. Logically I know it is not true, but deep in my heart I want it to be true. Maybe it is better for our reconciliation for me to continue that way.<BR>Lora

Rick,<P>It been a while, in fact I'm glad to see your here, I'll be putting up a new post next.<P>My advice, <P>Don't kid yourself, they are more than just friends, at least assume the worst. <P>Pull the trigger on plan B as you see fit, i think the vacation idea is great. The fact that she can always go back to you is a security she has and when you pull the trigger on plan B she will get a wake up call. That insecurity will make her uneasy and affect the realtionship with the OM.<P>Good Luck!<P>JK<P>

Hi Rick,<BR> Timing is everything! I think you've got the ideal timing here, considering the statement of hers you've gotten wind of. You know she's been way too comfortable for way too long. Her lifestyle has become her norm, but.......it's a lifestyle that gets old,has no real meaning nor any real depth to it. I pity her if it is the lifestyle she choses to keep. It's unlikely she'll make that choice(her lifestyle now is exciting and fun) until she is faced with her safety net being pulled away, only then will the fun be intertwined with an element of real risk. She's seen you wait this out,with more patience and love than the majority of human beings would be able to muster and she's pretty sure of herself when she thinks you'll always be there. Plan B (strictly enacted) will bring quite a jolt of reality to the fun little arrangement she's had going. Believe it or not, it will also bring much relief to you, so much so, that it might even take some of the numbness away and help you to see her for the truly confused and misled individual that she is and keep that love alive for awhile longer. It's so much easier to be objective the further we pull away. <P>She'll most likely react. WS get defensive when things don't fit into their plans. Then it becomes about us trying to "control" them....in their minds. All that matters is that you know the TRUTH about Plan B and she is forced to do some REAL soul searching about who she is and what she wants. You deserve a round of applause (no joke)for your diligence in Plan A. Just be sure to keep as strong a resolve in Plan B and I think you'll find that this situation just might turn around. Prayers and all the best to you!

I think your timing for plan B sounds wise. <P>The comment fron your W about always being able to go back to you if it doesn,t work may not be such a bad thing. In Harley's book the example of plan A and B is when the wife goes back to her H reluctantly after it doesn't work out with her OM. I'm sure you've read it.<P>It wouldn't feel very good to know you are someone's second choice but I think once many WS's were out of the fog, and back home with their spouses, they might realize how mistaken they were in their A. <P>It sounds like you may need plan B to preserve your remaining love for your wife. At the same time, wouldn't you like to get on with your own life too?<P>Enjoy your time with your kids!

Hi Rick,<P>Well, it sounds like plan b time. Your quote about you being available if all else fails, is one of the triggers that sent me to plan B. H said that to OW in Feb. I hit plan b in March. H was wishy washy in April, came home 4/29/01. Saw OW off/on in May, tried to kick him out when I found out end of May/June and just tonight H says he permanently will end it with OW. We'll see. <P>Anyway, my point is that plan B is to protect you and your family from further frontal damamge (direct verbal attack and manipulative actions). It does not mean that they will never occur but it is significantly reduced and the immediate result is that you will most likely feel a stress relief from this decision. The burden to make the relationship work will then be on your W. A burden that she will have to face whether she likes it or not. <P>Be prepared that this plan could lead to D. Generally, this plan causes turmoil among the OP and WS parties, depending on where that takes them and their present state of mind will plan their next steps. You will definitely make them stop and think. <P>I know you know all this. The greatest benefit is that you will feel that you have better control of your life and she will be less and less of a daily worry. It is actually a safer plan for you and you may wonder later why didn't I do it sooner. <P>Anyway, no kick in the pants, just sending some support. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.<BR>

Hi Rick - your analysis of the timing is flawless. Where are she and OM going on their trip? I'd like to watch.<P>Once again, mthrrhbard blows me away with the Plan B description. Makes pulling the trigger very logical. I'd have already done it if not for the extra moving parts I (and Steve H.) need to assimilate.<P>Remember, if you need a place to hide out, you and your kids are always welcome where it's warmer.<P>WAT

<BR>Quite honestly, I have little interest in the actual thought of being with her. She is just so bizarre, and so deceptive, phoney, and lies all the time. <P><BR>There it is Rick, you just said it yourself. I agree with everything that has already been said; Think about your needs and that of your kids...obviously she isn't going to and someone has to.<P>I married the same woman twice (previous W) and each time I tried to keep things together until I finally realized that it wasn't up to just me, it take TWO PEOPLE. She is out having her fun at your expense. Yeah, she thinks if it goes under you will take her back....but now that she has done this...whats to keep her from doing it again?<P>Just my 2 cents.<P>

Rick37:<P>Definitely implement your Plan B. Then the ball is in her court entirely.<P>After that? Tempus vidi.<P>Godspeed and good luck,<BR>STL

Hi Rick,<P>I just had to respond to this.<P>Aft approx 10-11 mos of Plan A, and going into my full blown Plan B, my husband got very angry. He left voice mails on every concievable phone, emails and hand written notes asking why I would not talk to him. Telling me all he wanted to do was simply talk to me about stuff. He was angry and felt I had "abandon" him, and now what was HE supposed to do. So just a heads up about the potential anger, Rick. <P>As far as your timing, it's impeccable. She will have plenty of vacation time to think about what your letter means .. and how it will affect her and her life style. In your case Rick, I truly believe your wife expects you to be there for her until she makes a decision of her own, and knowing she is in such a fog, I believe she has no game plan. She's been flying by the seat of her "Affair Pants" all this time, so perhaps it's the right time to cut off the gasoline. Hope OM has a parachute ... LOL!<P>In all seriousness, I know how hard you've worked on this Rick. I've read so many of your posts and kept up on your story. I feel very sure you know it's the right time for Plan B. I know I did. Just stick to your resolve once you've implemented it. It isn't easy, they (WS) try to make us feel guilty for not being there for them. And because we still love and care for them, we feel a bit of guilt on our own. Just remember you're doing what is best for you, your children, your marriage and your family.<P>And ... mthrrhbard was ohhh so right about the relief thing. After I went into Plan B, I couldn't believe how much stress and tension disappeared. <P>Be well and strong Rick, and God Bless ... I'll being keeping an eye out for a Plan B letter.<P>Lv,<BR>Jo<P>------------------<BR>"Remain flexible like a reed, as opposed to an oak which can snap in the wind"

Rick37,<P>I have always found your story intriguing not and have felt that all along you stood a good chance of healing and recovery. One piece of the puzzle fell into place.<P>The affair is not about the OM. It's about your wife needing to have the "single and social" lifestyle she never had when she was 20. Regretably, you and the kids have to pay the price for it, so surprise, surprise she acts like a 20-year-old. No doubt, unattractive to you; been there done that. Right? <BR>So in that regard, the quality of the relationship she has with the OM is meaningless. As it often is. Who often looks for a long-term, serious relationship when they are single and "playing the field?" So I'd stop analyzing the future she has with OM. She has no future with him. Someone else perhaps, but we all move on during those carefree salad days of youth.<P>Make a recommitment to your plan. For you, Rick. If you are to have any kind of reconnecting with your wife their are issues SHE will have to resolve for YOU to heal and repair the marriage. To sum up why you are going this route is fairly straight forward, is it not?<P>Basically, aren't you saying:<P>1. I will always love you, and realize that you are on a separate path but I cannot have social contact with you at all unless you are willing to stop lying and decieving me. Too painful. If we are to rebuild at all, you need to be upfront and honest with me at all times. I know the true relationship about the affair and have known for quite some time. So every time you lie to me, it cuts out a piece of my heart. Enough is enough. <P>2. We share children forever and for their sake we need to establish a trustful, cordial relationship whatever that may be.<P>The money argument is justified, but she won't go there. Too much at stake and guilt on her side. Don't use it as a shield.<P>I do believe that she relies on you to be there if all does not work out. Whether you choose to be at that time or not, who can tell. But judging from everything that you write and don't, YOU will not reconcile with HER, unless she can openly and honestly discuss her relationships and feelings.<BR>Time to let her go and see if she comes back. In the meantime, move forward and leave this relationship dynamic (the old one) in your rear view mirror.<P>Happy trails. You can do it.<P>Managing<BR>

Rick,<P>Ditto on what Resilient said about the anger.<P>My first attempt at Plan B didn't last more than a day because of my wife's reaction. She stated that "in response to my accusations and threats, I will be filing for divorce and sole custody of the kids". She also tried to put accross to me that us not speaking to each other was not in the best interest of our daughters.<P>In retrospect, it was all hogwash. She has far more to lose than I do if it came to divorce because the OP is her boss at work and their company wouldn't put up with it for a minute. The children are both of age where they can decide which parent they would want to live with and both have asked me on several occassions if they could stay with me if something happens. It all worked out as even the failed attempt served as somewhat of a wakeup call to my wife. I see my Plan A working better everyday.<P>But stick to your guns. It sounds like you're in the driver's seat. I sometimes wonder if my situation would actually be resolved by now if I hadn't caved in.<P>Good Luck!

Great advice you have gotton Rick... And I have to say, based on what you know regarding her comment... Is that that is the "control" they have with us. As long as they have us in the corner of the room...they go on with the status quo.<P>Is "be prepared" a boy scout motto?? <P>Everyones' attempts at plan B can differ. Sometimes it can depend on the extent of denial... (we are only friends, coworkers, etc.) or the extent of family/friend support...<BR>When kids are involved...a plan B can truly be a LB... and a threat of you controlling them, in which case they start to find new ways to make you the bad guy...<P>But the one way they are the same (plan B attempts) is that they very often produce anger....<P>I won't bore you with the details of my two plan B tries.. What seems to work in general...is the doing of something different. All I know is that when my H senses me moving away..... he is not in his comfort zone. <P>FYI... my H also did not sow his wild oats as a "youth". I have the advantage of having not married him till we were 32/33... so I can tell you that I am not the one who stopped him from doing the things he wanted too. It makes it easier for me to deflect the projections, but not the kids.

Everyone,<P>I thank you all for your comments and advice. Tremendous thoughts that truly land where they should, and reinforce what I have planned.<P>You know my fear factor of winding up in court, losing my house, affecting the kids more, bla bla bla. But, I doubt that is likely. She's not likely to want to expose the affair for the world to see, and IF we ever went to court to do things the pure way, we'd have to split our assets as of separation date, and that would include the house we bought for her 4 months before that, shortly after she announced her impending departure.<P>So long story short, she won't want to make that sacrifice herself in my opinion. She'd also have to expose all her spending habits, and again, won't want it. Far better to keep it out of courts.<P>Anyway, I just really appreciate the help I get here from everyone, and also the logic from mthrrhbard and Managing (and others) really helps put things in perspective.<P>Any other advice always appreciated.<P>