Cascade,<BR>Your OM has one major flaw as well...he's telling a married woman that he loves her...it isn't what a moral, honest man does.<P>I'm both WS & BS. Low character is low character, even with pretty words and a sexual rush.

One thing is this man married? If he is how can you say he is loyal to you? Well, he can communicate with you at all levels. Why not he is not really committed to you. How good he trust you. Your cheating on your husband. That must plant a seed in the back of his mind. I have learned alot from the on this board. One I have if it is to good to be true it is most likly not true. Affairs are like cars salesman. They will tell you how great the car is but when you get it home is a lemon.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by cascadeofwater:<BR><B>I'd like us to be in Plan A, but my husband isn't up to speed on this yet, though I've been encouraging him to read the book.</B><P>why is it you'd like your h to do plan a? are you willing to let the om out of your life in order for your h to meet your needs?<P><B>Is this love I've found the ultimate deception? I need to either make a resolution to give up the only person who has ever really understood, respected and cherished me (OM), or try to make something work (with H) that never really did very well.</B><P>my gut reaction is that the love you have for the om is ultimately a deception. however i will say this, whatever you're feeling right now are your own feelings and you're entitled to them. there's no right or wrong about how you feel but it's how you act upon those emotions that matter. whatever you decide to do, whether it be based on emotions and/or thoughts, will have consequences and you need to be able accept and live with what comes your way.<P><B>BTW, my H is having a hard time deciding whether to work on our marriage, which makes it doubly hard for me to resolve to do the "right" thing, against the powerful force of the other love I've come to know (i.e., I'm not able to picture right now what we might have to look forward to even if we worked hard on the marriage).</B><P>should your h decide he wants out of the marriage, will you let him go? let me ask you this, if your h told you right now that he found the love of his life and wanted to leave you, how would you feel?

Ok, I'm confused. Cascade, does your husband know of your affair? Does your OM's wife know of the affair? <P>PJ

Cascade,<P>Are you still there?...<P>If you don't want to listen I understand and goodbye. You don't know me. I really don't know you. I know where you are going. I am somewhat like your OM. I am attracted to the frail person's. I have a very unique point of view. I could have been the OM many times. Only intercession stopped that train wreck many times. Sometimes a person like me is cursed with the ability to caress and suggest our way into the lives of the frail souls. But, to what end? Is this fair to enter a heart through intuitional absorbtion if you will. In the end...I have always been very glad that the trickle of temptation wasn't allowed to flush me down stream. I have always guarded my heart with thoughts of the other lives that would be destroyed, my children, her children, my Wife, her Husband, my Mother, Sister, Brothers...<P>I would like to show you a few things about your OM's post.<P>Please realize that "love" in the first 6 months is a chemical response within the brain. It can be measured medically. This is how a "Casanova" exists. My Father and brothers all have used women to "exist." It is an insidious emotional crutch. If you don't want to listen I understand and goodbye.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cascadeofwater:<BR><B><P>"You are beautiful, you know. You are also smart, funny and compassionate. You understanding my loving heart because yours is the same. <P>THIS PART ABOVE IS CALLED "RAPPORT." IT IS A FRENCH WORD BECAUSE THEY INVENTED THE CONCEPT. THEY ARE VERY "GOOD" AT "LOVE."<P>Both of us are able and willing to work hard at openness and communication---even when, especially when, the going gets tough. All serious, real relationships have their "whitewater" times (I suspect that stems directly from the fact that we're all flawed beings....), but you and I have proven we are able to "run the rapids" together and come out stronger than before.<P>THIS IS REINFORCEMENT. THIS BUILDS YOUR SECURITY NEEDS AND SETS THE FRAMEWORK THAT DOESN'T ALLOW OTHERS TO MEET YOUR SECURITY NEEDS.<P> I'll do everything I can to keep us out of the whitewater, and I know you will too, but it is extremely comforting to me to know that we have the love, commitment and communication skills to find our way back to each other in such times. <P>THIS IS WHERE CONTROL IS SUGGESTIVELY TAKEN AWAY FROM YOU. THE CLEVER PART IS HOW HE SEEMS SOMEWHAT VULNERABLE BY LOOKING FOR KEYWORDS SUCH AS COMFORT, LOVE AND COMMUNICATION.<P>I happen to think that over time we'll find ourselves having to deal with "whitewater times" less than most couples, even those with decades under their belts.<P>HOPE IS POWERFUL, BUT WHAT IS THERE TO PLACE THIS HOPE ON? WHAT FOUNDATION IS THERE? CONTROL?<P> Why? <P>BECAUSE THIS IS WHERE HE FEELS INSECURE, BUT HE DOESN'T TELL YOU, HE SUGGEST'S THAT YOU ARE INSECURE.<P>Because we understand each other at a level so profound as to be spooky, and because we combine that understanding with huge reservoirs of compassion and respect. <P>IT IS EMOTIONALLY PROFOUND BECAUSE CHEMICALS IN YOUR BRAIN ARE MOTIVATING YOU IN WAYS YOU WOULD NOT NORMALLY ACT. YOU HAVE HUGE RESEVOIRS OF INFATUATION FOR EACH OTHER.<P>There are other things, even deeper: on the spiritual plane, you too are a creature of a questing heart and an enquiring mind. For you, as for me, the spiritual quest is real. I don't have to try and explain such things to you. Rather, I can share the quest with you. It's hard to find words to convey how important to me that is. <P>IT'S EASY TO SEE THAT HAVING YOU ALL ALONE ON AN INVENTED SPIRITUAL PLANE WOULD BE IMPORTANT TO YOUR OM. HE WILL FEEL SAFE THIS WAY. YOU WOULD SIMPLY BE SPIRITUALLY ISOLATED. THIS IS SIMILAR TO MANY CULTS THAT OPERATE OUT OF AIRPORTS AND BUS STATIONS.<P>Then there's a fact so amazing to me that I find it hard to get my mind around it: I am not the least bit lonely when I'm with you, my other half. You are the first PERSON in my life with whom that has been true. You truly are remarkable, and I am truly blessed." <P>SIMPLY SAID: WHAT FEELS GOOD ISN'T ALWAYS GOOD. THAT IS WHY WE DON'T ALL JUST ACT IMPULSIVELY. I FIND IT FASCINATING THAT THE NAME YOU HAVE CHOSEN PURVEYS A PEACEFUL FORM OF A CHAOTIC STATE. A CASCADE IS A PLUMMET AND A FASCINATION.<P>~PB</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>My dearest Cascade. I hope that this hasn't hurt too much. I am praying for you on THIS spiritual plane. You need objective help. Marriage, like life is what you make of it.<P>Judge people by what they do. Who is helping you to hurt people for the selfish purpose of self renewal. Who has made mistakes and is struggling to know what to do? You hold the keys to a miracle!!! What will you do? <P>All Gods Love, and the peace that surpasses all understanding be yours, both now and into eternity.<P>Invictus

[QUOTE]Originally posted by cascadeofwater:<P><<the love I have found with the OM in my life is truly remarkable. It meets every one of my top 5 emotional needs and is unconditional (despite many circumstances that have revealed our weaknesses to each other). We are so much alike and so mutually crazy about each other we feel like "clones." >>> <P>It's easy to feel that way in the honeymoon stage of any relationship. Things are usually much different once the rose colored glasses come off and you are faced wiht the everyday problems and humdrum of ordinary life. Right now you are caught up in a big, exciting drama. I used to work with a woman who started havign an affair. We were all close coworkers and she told us. He was her soulmate, everything she alway wanted in a man, her dream come true. He had been her high school sweetheart and had dumped her when they were seniors. She had married a great guy, had 3 kids (one who was handicapped). Her H treated her very well. was a great father etc. She had always said how happy she was. Then one day she ran into OM after all those years. Suddenly she had "never been that happy" (typical revisionist history). She started an affair with Mr. Perfect Soulmate. She divorced her H, he was absolutely stunned and crushed. Mr. Perfect Soulmate soon moved in. Didn't take long before he wasn't so perfect anymore. All sorts of little things started to show up which weren't apparent while they were caught up in the affair drama. They started fighting. The final straw was when she left him to watch her autistic child. Mr. Perfect fell asleep on the couch, the door was unlocked and the child had wandered almost 2 miles before someone found her and picked her up. MW kicked Mr. Perfect out. She had already been having second thoughts about divorcing her H. She decided that she had really loved H all along and was just in a fog. She begged him to take her back. Too late. He didn't want her anymore. He also filed for primary custody of the kids, and was awarded it due in part to the Mr. Perfect incident.

OHH CASCADE where did you go?? I hope you got the information you where looking for?? THis seems to be a hot thread, i was wondering if you were goingto post again or just read the replies?<BR>Maine

You've already been told enough, but everything you describe between you and OM is exactly what all the people in adulterous affairs say. That is why they are willing to throw everything away, because what they have found is "so special", and "so unique", "soulmates".<P>Read about the statistics of how many of these wonderful true loves actually work out. There is a reason for it. And in time you'll see it, but you are too deep in the fantasy stage to realize it.<P>I too, wonder if your H knows about this, does OM's wife know?

I take it you've left COFW? A shame... Some real wisdom and insight in these posts here.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers, Hugs, and Strength from both of us. Things do and can get better. Keep hoping, learning, and growing. Take care of yourself.<P>[H] and Knewjie

cascade,<BR>I have been exactly where you are. I even posted here on marriagebuilders to try to figure things out before I left home to be with the OM. I just knew in my heart that what we had was true love. And I want you to know that I still love that man. There were so many things that he brought to my life that will never be forgotten. There are other things I would share with you but after reading all the responses here, I won't. Please email me at deblynne@yahoo.com. I do want you to know that in the end, I came back to my husband. Love is a choice we make. We don't just fall into love or out of love. We choose which direction we will travel. That is what life is all about.<BR>A Journey that has many different paths that we choose to take. And after having an A with my OM for 8 months and believing that it was real love, I also knew that my H loved me. Since I was married to him, I felt he deserved a second chance and that what I was doing was wrong. I knew my relationship with the OM would never work out in the long run since it was built on a lie and deception, because all A's are build upon that. But I know that you aren't ready to hear any of this. I know that you are truly in love with the OM. He meets all the needs of your life right now and fills you with all the things that you find lacking in your marriage. I hope you will read everything, but you know when I first started reading all the books and materials on here, I was looking at things from the perspective that my H could never meet my love needs only the OM could, so I found very little value in them at the time. I did everything I could to justify my behavior, to rationalize what I wanted and felt I needed and deserved in my life. All of which the OM could do, and not my H. But the confusion and stress becaming increasingly more than I could stand, so I just decided to give my marriage one real chance and stop seeing the OM. Please write to me and we can talk more. I believe we have much we can discuss more openly thru emails than on here.

Ok, I have only a couple questions. I just need some clarification.<P>You mentioned that from the beginning of your A, you were completely honest with your H. <P>Meaning you told him when you started seeing or feeling attraction for the OM? If so, what was his reaction and what was your original intention with the OM?<BR>(before it grew into the full blown A that is has become)<P>I appologize if I'm asking you to repeat yourself.<BR>Djinn

All,<P>(Cascade forgive me if I talk about you in 3rd person here for a moment.)<P>I did a search of all forum's last night for earlier posts by Casade. There are a few posts, a quick read. She has posted here before trying to get help in saving her marriage. For me, reading the other posts gave me much more insight into her situation giving me more of an understanding of how she found herself in this situation.<P>Keep us posted Cascade.<P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Cascade, did everyone scare you off??<BR>Look, if you line up 12 men, I´m sure you´ll find a another soulmate. If you line up another 12 men you´ll find another to meet your emotional needs. If you line up another 12 men, you´ll find one who may be a better lover than your husband. Should I keep on going ? If your husband is a good man and is good to you and can make you happy, stop dreaming. Make what you have work. Unless your husband is a good for nothing bum stop playing with fire. You´ll only get burned.

Cascade: <P>Hope the various response posts didn't scare you off. I know it's not what you wanted to hear. I'm sorry if my post (or others) cut too deep. <P>I know you're in a very difficult situation: your whole heart is telling you to go in the direction of the OM, your sense of responsibility to your family (espec. your daughter) and the guilt is holding you back. I know how you feel ... that you'd do anything (ANYTHING) to avoid hurting you daughter. <P>You're obviously a very intelligent and sensitive person going through a tramatic and confusing situation. Please know we DO care. <P>Best of Luck to you. I hope the thread has helped. <P>Keith

Hi Cascade...if you're still there.<P>Okay, first here comes the big Robyn Qualifyer...I'm not married.<P>Having said that, I met my fiance when I was living with someone else. <P>The man I was living with was not the best fit for me. My fiance is.<P>I did not stray outside the previous relationship. Instead, I endured celibacy for 3 years and alcoholism for 6 years. This is because I didn't have the guts, or the tools to leave. Or, because I wanted to try to make it work, and honour what we will quaintly call a "promise" as I was not married. Probably a combination of the above.<P>When I met my fiance, we were friends and I only acknowledged him peripherally, and kept the friendship appropriate. This is in line with my values. When I left the 6 year relationship, he disclosed feelings for me. I returned the feelings. 2 years later, we are now about to be married.<P>Do I believe that it is possible that your best partner is someone you are not married to? YES.<P>Do I believe that you could be married to an adequate, but not excellent partner? YES.<P>Does this mean that you keep jumping ship???? I would think not, given that I intend to marry, too.<P>I have never regretted leaving my previous relationship. <P>So, I can't say what you should do about your OM, other than SOMETHING. Something must be done. Your H. did not ask for this.<P>Very best of luck<P>Robyn.

I can not relate to what you're saying except from my husband's standpoint. He was sure he was in love with my best friend and left our marriage, tried to break hers up, we were apart almost a year, etc. He said he'd never been happier, she was wonderful, he deserved to be happy, etc. Well, he finally came out of the "fog" he was in and realized he was only infatuated and would have never stayed with her. He sees other friends of ours in this situation now and tells me "there's nothing you can do. They are not seeing things clearly and won't for a while, if ever." <P>We have been in counseling right after and again now. It's the most painful thing in the world but our marriage is worth working for. I know too many people who have thrown their marriage away for what they thought was their soulmate and true love. But found out they were mistaken and by then their spouse had left them. Here's hoping that doesn't happen to you. I am not judging you, only offering 5 years of what I've seen. Good luck.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Personally I do not see how posts like this help BS's at all.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Personally, I think they help a <B>LOT.</B> They let you know just how much of a battle you've got against the addiction.<P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die

Well, I just popped over from the D/D board to see what was going on here, and what did I find? A woman just like my X!<P>I don't know if you're still reading these posts here, Cascade, but I can give you some insight from the other side of the coin.<P>My X said EVERYTHING about her OM that you've said about yours. He was the perfect man...her soul-mate, it was like they were separated at birth, etc. I discovered the affair by reading their e-mails to each other, and I read EXACTLY the same things you've said about your OM, and vice-versa. My X also married me for the "wrong" reasons, never "really loved" me the "way she should," and other such things. Our marriage was difficult, but when the OM came along, suddenly he was perfect, I was useless, and our marriage suddenly became "doomed from the start."<P>I found MB, while my X explored her perfect relationship with the man she was "meant to be with forever." They had a "mystical connection," they finished each other's sentences, and everything was right with the world when they were together! Did I mention he was married? Almost forgot that part! He told my X that his marriage was all but over, and he was fighting tooth and nail to divorce his coke-addict, controlling, psychopathic wife, but she wouldn't sign the papers. <P>Nine months after my X moved out, and just a month after our divorce, she found out that Mr. Perfect had been lying to her all along. She had a long phone conversation with OM's wife, and found out that she was not the Queen of All Evil, most of the stuff he had said about her wasn't true, and though they really WERE getting divorced, they had been sleeping together the whole time.<P>Now I'm not suggesting the same thing could happen to you, but consider this:<P>Yes, this man is just the most wonderful guy you've ever met, but what kind of person is he, really? A man who has no problem going after another man's wife has a <B>serious moral deficiency.</B> He <B>knows</B> you're married, yet he still is carrying on his relationship with you. This means that the words <B>trust, loyalty, honor, and virtue mean absolutely nothing to him.</B><P>I don't know the details of your relationship and how it started, but at some point, he had to say to himself "hey, she's married." Another part of him replied "yeah, so what?"<P>In other words, he has <B>no respect for committment.</B> <P>Now turn this around...a few years from now, when this wonderful "in love" feeling has cooled down a bit, and some really beautiful woman comes on to him, he may ask himself "hey, I'm in a relationship" or even "hey, I'm married..."<P>You already know what his answer will be, don't you?

I find the true love dream of my life talk a bit ridiculous too. The reason is that I have a close relative who said all the same things numerous times about various men. <P>Every man was a long lost soul mate. Everything was perfect. These people were handsome, intelligent, humorous, witty, strong, etc. etc. As a male I didn't know any perfect men like that. One man could apparently even beat any other man in chess in just two movements. Pretty impressive, I must say. Except I was a chess player and knew better. <P>If everything is so perfect, this should usually be a warning signal that something is wrong. There is a story where the executives of a top company were al deciding on a new car design. The head guy aked for the opinions of the subordinates. Everyone thought he new car was perfect. The head guy (real story) told all of them to think about it for a month and come back to talk again. A month later another meeting was held and every person rejected the new car design. All of these people found a serious flaw. The head guy realized that nothing could be so perfect that it didn't have flaws. This is the real world, not the dream world. Life is not like a children's story.<P>Look around at any two married people. Is there a perfect dream relationship that is the same as when two lovers first meet? I don't think so. At least it is not the same. But no matter what people say. The response will be "But my case is different. You just don't understand me or the other (wonderful) man." <P>Well none of those other relationships lasted. The dream and expectations were too high. When real resposibility hit, when children arrived, when real world hardships arrived, everything fell apart. Hey, it wasn't heaven after all. Hey this guy wasn't what I thought he was. But the new guy, he was everything the other guy wasn't. <P>I've lived a long time and have seen this kind of thing over and over. But people can only learn from mistakes. This man could be very good but get real, people are people. <P>Are you also the most perfect person this man has ever met? Do you consider yourself such. If not then isn't he deceiving himself? If you are then aren't you deceiving yourself. Maybe you and him are almost perfect. How long might this last. <P>Already by deciding to fool around with each other makes both of you not perfect. Get divorced first and then have sex with each other or talk with each other 24 hours of each day. How long has your new relationship lasted so far.<P>All things are possible afterall so maybe you have found the most ideal man in the Universe for yourself. It just so happened he married the wrong woman. He didn't ralize what love was all about. You married the wrong man. You just were not thinking when you got married. You didn't mean to say those vows, you were just kidding. He was just kidding too. It's ridiculous to promise these things isn't it?<P>To me marriage means something. It means a lot. If it means nothing to you then if he leaves for the next lady when you get a few wrinkles, a little fat, a little grouchy, then what? <P>The best is to take seriously what people say here. But it is your life, your happiness so do what you think is right. But principles and values should mean something shouldn't they? <P>Well maybe your husband is a no good person and you deserve better in this life. What an opportunity you have here. Well you must decide. You must live with the consequences of your decision. I hope you have a happy life and don't hurt your husband too much. Someday he will probaby get over it. It shouldn't affect him for more than a couple of years. That's not too bad.<P>When you see other people fooling around with married men , then what do you think? Is this pretty good? Is there no guilt or shame? What were you taught when you were young and growing up? My feeling is that's it's not good but I could be totally wrong. Sorry if I am.

Actually I consider my wife almost perfect too, in the same way you describe the dream man but she had an affair when we were newly married. So what happened to all the perfection? She was perfect before, a dream woman. She is perfect now, a dream woman. But she did this thing?????