Well, my status is that H has actually made plans with MIL to see the kids on Saturday. Finally after 26 days of absolutely no contact with them. (he has had contact with me, last time was 5 days ago, now I am in plan B).<P>On the one hand I am happy he seems to finally be coming out of his shell and making an attempt to see the kids after "running away". Fog lift?<P>On the other hand, I am scared he is getting comfortable with plan B and is happy with his "new" life and is getting set up to live this way and have scheduled visitation with the kids.<P>I do know the reason he was not seeing them was because it made him sad. He misses them, he would say and it hurts him to be reminded of the pain he's caused them.<P>The OTHER thing. Is that I had explicitly asked for supervised visits until he went for anger-management classes and got counseling. He has done neither, but I don't want to keep him from seeing the kids. So what am I to do? His plans for Saturday include taking them to his work for a party and going to an aquarium 2 hours away. Unsupervised, but at least it is by himself and not with OW.<P>I told MIL to get complete details, when he is coming back, what exactly he is doing, etc. (I am afraid to have him drive the kids because he is working on almost NO sleep with his 2 1/2 jobs). He is supposedly taking the train to the aquarium. MIL said he got cranky when he asked so many questions, and he said he had a right to know where I was all the time and what I was doing with the kids all day. (like he's cared before this!!!). <P>Was I wrong to do this? I told MIL I just need to know my kids are safe, that's all. I'm not trying to control him or make him do things my way. He can tell me what he will do to make me feel safe. I hope she relays this correctly.<P>AND, when he gets back from his trip, he is supposed to drop the kids off at the house. WITH ME!!! How do I deal with this and plan B? He will probably get back so late the kids will be asleep so they can't walk in alone. MIL will be back home (she is 2 hours away).<P>And where do I put my foot down? He has agreed to counseling and the anger-management, but he just keeps putting it off!! I guess I'll just worry about this weekend for now and worry about that later.<P>Do you think seeing the kids will help him stop running away from his problems and possibly want to come home? Deep down this is what I'm hoping for and want to hear that you guys agree. I guess I shouldn't care,right? Cuz' I want him to come home for me, not the kids, right?

right!<P>not much to add, you thought it out pretty well.<P>He has to feel the pain of seeing them and leaving them and missing them. <P>And, yes, you don't want your kids to be the pawns. About counseling...hard for me to advise, as I don't know your H. You and your family are best to know what you should do. What does his mother say?<P>Next week, after my H is gone, you will be helping me through this . <P>Chin up. <P>Cali

Thanks Cali - don't worry, I'll be there next week. <P>Oh, BTW, incase anyone that doesn't know my story is reading this. No, my H does not abuse the kids, but he does have an anger problem that is just too close to comfort for me.<P>I am not worried about him hurting them on this trip since it's been so long since he's seen them. What I am worried about his him getting comfortable, slowly taking advantage of me, setting it up so he has regular visitation and then he eventually explodes at the kids because he did not get help like he said he would. I am also concerned about him driving them while getting little, if any sleep, and about the effect he will have on the kids. I mean, he has been gone for a month, he has hurt them considerably and I hate him just popping in/out of their lives. I think it does more harm than good in my opinion. They need stability, not what he is doing.<P>Also, it really ticks me off that he flat out refused to have anything to do with the kids this past month, just because I wanted the visits supervised for a while until he got help, then we could move on from there. HE DIDN'T EVEN TRY TO MAKE OTHER ARRANGEMENTS OR WORK AROUND THIS, HE JUST WOULDN'T DO IT! He wants it his way and that is it. He's just popping in and taking them Saturday and outright refusing my request. It's like a game - he wins again because he didn't have to do what I asked. Ugh and I have to give in because I want him to see the kids. I just wish he would respect me enough to do as I ask.<P>Just wanted to clarify... Oh BTW, MIL tried to arrange it so she could go with him on Saturday - no go. She is apprehensive as well but doesn't know what is the right thing to do.

Hi there<P>I think you have thought this visit out well. The important thing as you say is the safety and happiness of the children. I do not think that they are being used as pawns as they have a need to see their Dad as well. <P>I don't think this is him "getting comfortable" - but he does have to accept the reality of the situation. He will not see as much of his children and this will be hard. It is all part of the bigger picture.<P>As far as counselling goes I think that you have to sit tight and wait. Any counselling is only helpful if the person wants to be there and to be helped.<P>It is very hard to plan B when children are involved. If you do need to see him when he drops them off make sure you look good and keep conversation light maybe about the kids and their day. <P>These are just my thoughts but I hope they are of some help.<P>Good luck I will be thinking about you.<P>A

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Oh BTW, MIL tried to arrange it so she could go with him on Saturday - no go.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That would send up a red flag for me. Are you absolutely SURE the OW won't be there?<BR>

Thanks Annie. It is real tough. It will be so hard for me to see my H when he drops the kids off. But like you said, maybe it will be good for him to see me looking good as long as I try not to talk to him much. What do I say if he starts "talking" though. I don't want to be rude, but it is very tough for me not to talk to my H when he wants to talk.<P>Nellie - no can't be sure OW won't be there, but I do know my 6-year old would tell me if she was and he would NOT be taking the kids again until he went to a lawyter. I have been adamant about this and have told my H that my 6-year old does NOT want anything to do with his girlfriend. So, there's not much more I can do right now. <P>I guess dealing with visitation is VERY difficult for me. I don't believe it is the best thing for my kids. It is easier with him just out of the picture (running off). I need help with this. I don't want him popping in/out of their lives, lying to them, screwing with their heads, giving them false hope, etc. I have a big issue with this and it feels like I am powerless to stop it. Why do my kids have to suffer? What can I do about it? It feels like nothing.<P>Also, I guess with visitation it FEELS like I am divorced. It hurts.

It is me again, and you are probably not going to like what i have to say, so don't read it if u don't want. I feel like I have to stick up for the men because when the men do stick up for themselves the first thing we women do (not all) is to BLAST HIM, SAYING U DON'T UNDERSTAND! But to me it seems that you ARE using the kids as a pawn to control your H. You say he has NEVER abused the kids in anyway, but yet you told him that he can't see them until he has gone to counseling for his anger. His anger towards who, YOU? Just because he is angry at you, you want him to go to counseling as if the counselor is going to pick your side and say "HEY STOP BEING MAD AT YOUR W" and then you will have what you have wanted. For H to be invalidated and for you to be validated, as if when he goes to counseling you have won some sort of victory. He said yes he will go to counseling, but since he hasn't gone fast enough for your liking, you come up with all of these excuses for being worried about your children's safety, all the way down to WHAT IF HE DRIVES WHILE TIRED! WHAT!! When this man was with you under one roof, where these safety concerns brought up then? He has been angry at you in the past but has not taken it out on his kids. Don't get me wrong, i have kids and of course every parent wants to protect them. But just because your H is not treating YOU the way you think he should be or he isn't doing exactly what you want him to do, should not be taken to the defining relationship with his kids. If he is on drugs or if he is an alocoholic then u definitely have every right to be concerned. But it doesn't seem to be the case. I apologize if I have offended you, but from everything that you have stated here, u have no FACTS to say that he needs supervised visits because your children are in danger. If you are afraid of him bringing the kids around OW and you don't like the lifestyle they have built together then say that then. But again according to you, you don't believe he is living w/OW or that they are having sex. So she shouldn't be a fear-factor. JMO

Hi Trying. I read your post. I wish it were that simple. Let me explain farther and please let me know what you think.<P>The friday before Memorial Day my H picked up my 2-year old and screamed in her face. There was no need for it, no excuses, it was just cruel. She hid her face and ran and hid, it was horrific to watch her reaction. He wasn't even in a bad mood at the time. That night I called and put my kids in daycare. That was the last time he has been alone with my kids, that was 2 months ago. He was still living home at the time. That night, I said "THIS STOPS NOW". You need help, I will not allow this to go any farther. He agreed, I have talked to him about this a few times after the fact. He WANTS to go to counseling to be a better parent, he is just putting it off. He has never been that angry with me or yelled at me like that. He did leave me an incredibly hate-filled message on my voicemail when he was on one of his "it's your fault" kicks, but I never considered his anger to be a problem with me. I don't consider what he did abuse, but it was scary nonetheless.<P>This Saturday will be the first time he is alone with my kids since that day.<P>To quote my counselor "your H's problems go WAY beyond your typical marriage problems." My H has seen an outside counselor and they believe he has a mental disorder. So do I, but he is again, putting off being tested or going to counseling for this. He also said he would do this "when he has time".<P>My H has not seen the kids in 22 days today. He does not call to talk to them or find out how they are doing. He purposefully did not take the Father's Day card my 6-year old left for him in the mailbox because "it hurt too much", it devastated her to see he hadn't taken it. When he came over in the past it was always after the kids were in bed so he would not have to see them. He has hurt them so much already and I just don't want them to go through any more pain. He only thinks of himself now and not them. He thinks they are fine and don't need any counseling, etc. I pay ALL the bills, even some of his still.<P>My husband is hurting everyone, not just me. I am not mad at my husband. He needs help and is refusing to get it and I'm just trying to make a life for me and the kids while he is in la-la land with OW. <P>I am worried about him driving tired because starting this week he is trying to be super-human. He is working over 120 hours a week, and communting 10 hours. That leaves him 38 hours for everything else. That's less than 6 hours sleep a day broken into two periods of 3 hours each. If he drives to the aquarium on Saturday that's 2-hours he has to try to stay awake after that horrific schedule. It worries me.<P>I want to do the right thing, but honestly, I don't know what that is given the circumstances.<P>Do you understand now and do you still think I am using the kids? What can I do, just let him come/go as he pleases? I don't even know where he lives!! (he won't tell me).<P>I realize I am in a very tough spot, and it doesn't help that I truly believe my H should have nothing to do with the kids in his current state. I am trying to get over that and see the good it will do, but it's hard. That's why I wrote the other post about books to read.<P>My husband was a wonderful and terrific father (and husband). But whatever has come over him is encompassing his entire being. Every aspect of it. It is very difficult dealing with a person like this. If the problems were just between him/me it would be VERY different.

I understand about needing to know where he lives if that is where your children will be. I don't think there is a parent in the world that has not screamed at there kids due to frustration only to see the kids look afraid and hurt. If it is a continual thing then that is a problem, but an isolated incident, no in my opinion it is not a problem. Your question was: What can I do, just let him come/go as he pleases? No he should be able to come and go into you and your children's lives as he pleases, that is why you should set up visitations that work for BOTH, not just u and not just him. SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT: Last week you were set to take him back with open arms, but since he has been respecting your Plan B of No Contact and wants to see the kids you are back to saying he is too dangerous and not in the right frame of mind. Maybe he knew that and wanted to wait a while b4 having contact with the kids now. Maybe he didn't take the card because he didn't feel like a very good Dad right now? JMO

Hi trying. I see your point, I am thinking about it. Here is some more detail.<P>My H has been screaming at my 2-year old for quite some time. He was always telling me he was a horrible father and I would just say, you're tired, it's okay, you were just frustrated, I know how she can be. I had never seen him do it in person. Just over the phone or he would talk on email about it. It made me shudder when I heard it on the phone but I always had some excuse of why it was okay. When I saw it for the first time that day and realized what was happening and how there was no excuse this time I put a stop to it. My H admits to having a problem and he is the one that said he was going to counseling to get help, not me. He just hasn't done it. <P>You're right about the visitation. That is why I told him what I wanted in the plan B letter and said to work the details out through the babysitter and his mother (which days/times, etc.). He didn't even try to negotiate or set up good times or anything. Just chose not to see the kids for various reasons/excuses. I kept bringing it up even last week and he just said "I'll call you to figure things out."<P>I purposely did not try to say he was dangerous and in the wrong frame of mind in my original post because I did not want people to get off track of what I was asking for. I also did not mean to imply that. All I meant is my H did these things, has these problems and it makes me worried about his ability to care for the kids right now. I only mentioned it later because I felt it was relevant to your response. I have always been willing to take my H back with open arms, last week being no different. But even if he came home or we decided to work on our marriage that does not mean I start trusting him with the kids again. I didn't trust him when he was home 4 weeks ago (when he was supposedly working on the marriage). <P>You are right though, I know he does not feel like a very good dad right now and that probably has alot to do with him not seeing the kids. It still doesn't make it right for him to play with their feelings.<P>Thank you for your perspective. Let me ask you, knowing what you do about my situation, do I just ignore my feelings and worries, force him to set up some organized visitation through his MIL, and then just hope and pray my kids are safe when they are with him? That is very tough for me to do when it comes to my kids. What I have been trying to do is have him prove to me the kids are safe and I can trust him. I don't think that is too much to ask given the circumstances, but he wants what he wants when he wants it. There is no reasoning (this I already knew, but hoped there could be some concerning the kids). Why is it too much to ask?<P>Tell me what you think the right thing to do in my case is and how I may implement it while in plan B.<P>My original post was more of my concern about having to deal with visitation, seeing my H and how I cope with it since it is so difficult for me and I am in plan B. And I was also hoping to hear it was a good sign that he finally wanted to see the kids and stop running away. But talking about this stuff is also helping me - thanks.<P>

Hey trying, I was waiting for your reply? Where'd you go?

Hi Hurt - I've been following your posts, but haven't replied because I'm in two minds about it! You are getting some excellent help from the others though...Just wanted to let you know that my thoughts are with you <P>hugs, Paint.

Ok, so you have shed more light on the Father-Daughter situation. Is it just your 2 yr. old that gets him so frustrated? Is she more of a firecracker than your other children? Not that this is an excuse but I also am finding out that my daughter is certainly different than my son's. She is a FIRECRACKER, and she is as stubborn and as mouthy as her parent's. Sometimes we laugh about it, sometimes we know that she has to be bridled before it get's out of hand. Maybe your H doesn't know how to deal with girl's, some men are like that(if this is your first girl, i don't know the sex of your children). But again, I AM IN NO WAY SAYING his actions are excusable, maybe he can take a parenting class or even buy a book on patience with children, I'm sure there has to be one out there. As far as sending your children to be with him, i really can't say either way. You bring up some valid points by giving me the history of his anger, have you talked to him about how he is going to deal with his frustration w/your 2 year old? Maybe you should wait to send the 2 year old until you feel he has learned how to cope?

Thanks for the suggestions. Yes, it is primarily the 2-year old. He gets angry with the others sometimes (D-6, D-2, S-1), but never screams at them the same way he does with her. Yes, she is a very difficult child and a "firecracker". He can't handle her. I have difficulties myself, but like I don't him "I don't do THAT" (meaning what he does).<P>His problems (and hence our marriage problems) started pretty much right after she was born. His inability to deal with her has alot to do with this.<P>Yes, he agrees he needs help. He wants to take anger-management courses, he wants to be a better parent. He's just talks and talks but doesn't do. Same thing with counseling for himself.<P>My 2-year old is constantly asking about her dad. She is the one that cries for 2-hours in the middle of the night saying she wants her dad, she's the one that is always asking for him. It would crush her to see the other kids go with him and not her or to even hear that they went (and my 6-year old couldn't keep quiet about this). I couldn't do that to her.<P>It's very hard for me to seperate the kids in this way. I have thought about it. It is not fair to my 2-year old, so I group them all together.<P>Oh and the other thing I just found out is he's saying he MIGHT take them Saturday. MIGHT. Damn him. I am so glad I didn't tell the kids yet. He's going to bail and try to blame me somehow. I know it.<P>Thanks for the advice. If nothing else it makes me think. All I want is for him to prove he's trustworthy and safe with the kids. Why won't he do this? He just insists he is fine, never physically hurt them and tries to come/go as he pleases (but then on a different day he'll say he's a horrible father, needs to get counseling, etc.).