previously posted under "Should we continue living together"?, now H has moved out. my questions was, should I pack the rest of his belongings, and the answer was don't lift a thing, but I feel uncomfortable with the situation of seeing some of his lingering things in the house. the majority of his clothes are gone. there is still stuff left there and they are constant reminders of H. it doesn't seem as if he will come back for them, what do I do? Leave as is, or box the stuff and put in garage storage? Recently speaking with H's mom, she says that H has different issues. On mother's day weekend, actually on Friday, H left on a fishing trip to return on Saturday evening. H took family truck and left me company truck to get around in. although that is against company policy. so anyway, i drove my mom's car around that friday night and saturday am, i worked saturday from 1 - 6pm and drove company truck since it would actually just be parked. well low and behold about a week or so later, my H said that a pocket knife comes out from underneath the seat. wants to know who's it is and what man did i have in his truck. now, i never mentioned this in my previous posts because, i didn't think it was relevant to the problem I was having, because H and his A was the main scoop, and all this crap that was going on. now he is gone, he had confronted me about this pocket knife and of course, i was in the blue and clueless as to its rightful owner, well apparently H thinks I still know who belongs to the knife and is pressed on finding out who it belongs to. H keeps it in his pocket and uses it occasionally, say he will find out who's it is. H says I am lying to him and know who's knife it is? But the honest truth, i have no clue, now that this has resurfaced, it makes me feel like i am at square 1, because, now I feel he thinks I cheated on him, so is tha why he and A exsited, because of his silly notions of my cheating on him. I have been and still am loyal to my H, even though we are no longer living together and seems like no chance of reconciliation, I still have more respect for myself than that. Although, throughout our marriage, he has left, now, three times, has been caught with OW now and previously, I still wouldn't dare go down to his level, I might have thought of getting even, thought about cheating, yes, i did think about it, but things were so bad, but all in all, i never did, i know it is wrong so i never did it. even now, i don't think about anyone else, i just want everything to be fixed and back to normal, my family is all I ever wanted. why does he have to be that way! Now I feel like I am back to square one with my feelings. i was feeling way better, dealing with life and eating well and then this situation surfaces. Now what?

SUSR, r u in a Plan B, meaning NO CONTACT? First let me say that H not taking all of his things is probably a sign that he plans in his mind on coming back. But i would warn against you taking him back unless his actions change, adn not just for 2 weeks or a few months, but some REAL CHANGES, if no changes then you will REALLY be back to square one! As far as his reasoning on having an affair, i think that you are trying to control the situation in your mind by saying "OH, WELL HE THINKS I CHEATED SO THAT IS WHY HE CHEATED". That pocketknife is his way of transferring blame onto you for his actions and you are falling victim to it by believing it. That is a common WS ploy to take the blame off of them on put it onto the BS. You are not to blame for the choices he made to continually cheat. It takes to to mess up a relationship, but it only takes 1 to step outside the marriage, he made that choice, not you! REMEMBER THAT! If really thought you cheated and this is why he cheated, then what are his excuses in the past infidelities? Don't fall for this trick. If you would feel better by packing and putting his stuff away in the garage then by all means do so. This is a time to do what makes you feel better. It is time to concentrate on you.

He's still in the fog, SUSF. And the previous response is correct: he is using the knife bit as a transference of guilt. "It's okay if I did it, because she obviously did it."<P>Strange, the workings of the mind of a WS still in the fog.<P>Stick to Plan B: No Contact.<P>Lastly, if his belongings that remain are causing you distress, by all means box them up.<P>Godspeed and good luck,<BR>STL

thanks "trying 2 4 give and seen the light". as far as plan b, i have been reading some posts and also planA/planB. i'm confused or just don't understand plan B. i've understood, it means no contact. yes there has been, but only because of our daughter. this past saturday, and yesterday, she spent the night at her father's apt. so there was contact in that sense, and then because the truck had broken down. other than any other contact, no there hasn't been. this is the first time there has been this much contact within the past 3 days, since when we still lived under the same roof. i don't call him for anything at all. my daughter will call him, basically that's it. and of course, this past sunday, i saw him because he was fixing the truck. he is still bugging for the truck. he said he wants it because he knows i cannot afford it. he told me i needed to figure out my bills and stuff and let him know. i asked him to help me with $500 amonth. he agreed, at least i thought he did, until today, his mom told me he was going to help me with that amount for next month, but afterwards was a different story. so my next question is: under the child support law of texas, and mumbo jumbo, it states that he is responsible for 20% of his income for child support. now I estimated that total would be about $450. so should i just go to the attorney generals office and file for child support, or should i just talk with him first and see if he will agree to do it on his own. but then i would have to contact him, which i rather not, because it will not be a nice discussion. but if i do go to attorney general's office, they automatically deduct if from wages, what if he get's mad? now I am worried about making him mad, is that wrong of me? yes. it is, i tell myself. should i feel that way, about his feelings? so i need to live my life as a single mom? how do i know when he stops seeing OW? should i put my life on hold, or try to meet a better match, someon who will respect me and my children, if i wait for my H to come around, i am afraid of what the consequences will be. will it work out great for a couple of years and then again, do this to me for a 4th time? as the say, "god has a reason for everything", is this his was of saying, that H will never change, and if so only temporary; to look for something better? so confused. i think I will pack up all his things. it would make me feel better. he still hasn't given me the keys for my house. changing/rekeying locks is the best bet? or should i leave it? should i confront him about the knife thing, tell him again that i have no idea whose it is, and let him know again, that i have not cheated on him and not to make it seem my bad?! that i am not to blame and never will be, and that i will not let him blame me for something i did not do?<p>[This message has been edited by stranger under same roof (edited June 26, 2001).]

H has made contact with me. H called at 11:55pm last night, with a sincere voice, but of course, had just come back from drinking. wanted to know how the truck was running since he fixed it, how his daughter was, and what was i doing. i was very short with him in answers, made sure it was yes and no only, or at least i did not elaborate on my answers. he also said to me, if i needed anything to give him a call. what does this mean? is he just trying to be civil with me? not quite sure what to make of it. although he is still with this truck agenda. he wants it and wants me to buy a cheap used paid off car for myself. so where does that leave me on this planA/planB thing? really confused.

It leaves you in the same place, SUSR.<P>Now, if he isn't drinking, and that type of behavior becomes more commonplace, then there is reason to reconsider.<P>However, until then, stay the course. If you are having difficulty with Plan A/Plan B concepts, reread Dr. Harley's material. Perhaps concider a session with Steve, if you can afford it.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

Agree w/STL, until his concern and care comes through while not intoxicated and is a continual thing then it means nothing. You sound very unsure of yourself and what you should be doing. First of all, RELAX, RELATE, RELEASE!! First things first, I think you should handle the child support first. It is obvious by past posts that you and he can not agree CALMLY on how this should be handled so i would go through the courts for this, so that everything can be done legally and you and he both will never have to worry about who needs to be doing what, who needs to be paying what or whose day it is to have your daughter. If you would feel better about it, then let him know beforehand that you think everything should be handled by the courts as far as child support because from his words and actions you can't depend on him. As far as explaining about a supposed OM, then I wouldn't waste my time. He is just blowing hot air to redeem himself in everyone elses eyes. You and the people that really care for you know the truth and that is all that matters.

So basically, do not contact him at all. go on with filing for child support. lawyers are way to expensive for me at this time. keep it cool. let all run its course. so when he is sane and sober, talk, but as long as he is drunk and blown, back off, because all will be the same. until i know for sure, his drinking and OW frenzy is over and done with, then that is the time to take a different perspective of our life as a family again? so enjoy my life, my children and be happy as a single parent family, and live on?! sounds good, easier said than done, trying to go that way. Actually, thank you all for that reality check, i was drifting back to my confused self, which i'm still confused on some stuff, but i think its my emotions fighting with me, still trying to tell myself, why, what, and how did this all happen to me? but i kick myself, and have made myself understand, and I do know, it is NOT me, it is not MY bad. but deep down inside my heart, i do still love him, is that bad? as far as trying to convince him that there is and never was OM, i have come to understand, that is just an excuse to justify his actions. i have nothing to worry about, especially when i know i have nothing to worry about. thanks for all and to all. i will keep reading on.

Have no contact at all. If he starts to talk sweet that might be because OW left him or she is having second thoughts now that her H knows. As for the knife, yes he is using it for an excuse, but do not bring it up with him as he may get violent. Do not trust his sensitivy, it is a lie and a front. The phrase, "If he did it once, he'll do it again" fits this situation and it hurts, so if you allow him back in, you're asking for more pain.<BR>YES!!!, you should continue pursuing child support through proper channels since his word of mouth is nothing. He said that he would never do anything to hurt you and he has, on more than one occassion I would not trust him nor give him the chance of fixing things AGAIN... As for the money for the legal avenues, you have a loving Bro-in-law who is willing to help. I would box up all of his belongings and place them in the BBQ; however, the garage would be more acceptable. Once his belongings are there he will be "unseen & unheard" and that will make it easier to move on with your life. Plus, he will see that you are trying to move on without him and that there is no place for him there any longer. Sell the truck, split the money and get another car. <P>Liebling in Germany

TO all: re: the topic of the knife, it is in my possession, it apparently fell out of H pocket this weekend while at my daughters t-ball tournament, while in my hotel room, he was playing with daughter and three of her tball friends, after H left room to go to his hotel room, i saw something shiny on floor and caught my attention, it was the knife, so i picked it up and put it in my purse. i don't think H realizes that he has lost it. he was so blown that night and morning stayed drinking from 5:00pm friday to 6:30 am saturday. he wreaked of liquor. anyway, im sure he has no clue as to whereabouts of knife, or even if it is missing yet. anyway, my question is, should if tell him that i have it, or give it back, keep it, slip it back to him whenever possible, throw it away, just shut up and never say anything? you are right about the being nice thing. something is up with OW, he still talks with her, OW was at tball game as well, just at different times. this weekend he was being sweet, and treating us for lunch & breakfast, as we went with baseball team. my truck broke again for the third time in one week, same thing, so know I'm wondering, is he really getting a bad part, or is he doing something purposely to either give him the truck or so I can call and depend on him? As far as no contact, i do not call him at all, he is the one that will call, but to talk to his daughter, and of course i usually answer phone. But has been strangely nice this past weekend. But i know it is a front, he still in his drinking and partying frenzy, that is all he thinks about. need some input on the knife and friendly stuff? i have packed the rest of his clothes in trash bags and he has picked them up. Rest of his items will be boxed and garaged. As far as selling the truck, that is a very hard option, i have not had it but only 9 months, and its a used vehicle, which puts me in what dealerships call an "upside down" payment, no equity, not enough payments, owe more than what its worth thing. Not sure on how that works. I might could sell it through newspaper, as "for sale by owner", but i'm sure not for what I owe on it. But he is willing to take over the truck and payments, and i can get me something smaller in size and payments, its just the time to look for something, and I have been looking, i just haven't seen anything i like and can afford yet. But the truck is under both our names, if i give it to him, and he doesn't make payments then that goes bad on me as well! DECISIONS, Decisions, DECISIONS!!

THROW THE KNIFE AWAY!!! And yes, be suspicious about the niceness. He may be wanting to keep a door open in case things don't workout with the OW. As for the packaging of the clothes, good, strong move; let him know he's done with. Good question on the repairs of the truck??? Hummm... get a friend or a father to check it out. Or call or email the problems to your Brother-in-law and have him tell you what to do to fix it. Do not use H as a crutch in any which way, not even sex. That's alowing him back in, (metaphorically speaking). Keep looking for another vehicle, one will come along, as they always do. You know how you buy a car and then you see another one and think, "Darn, maybe I should have bought that one." If he wants the payments on the truck, let him refinance it ALONE. As for the upside down value on the truck, I will save that for another email. You may just have to take a loss on the value of the truck.<P>Liebling

It is so strange. How some days are just good days, and some days it just does not go good at all. This weekend was an okay weekend, I was able to deal with H while out of town, being civil with each other made it easier. after returning home on sunday, a little arguement arised re: getting me another car and giving H the truck, but truck broke down again and i told him i needed at least 1 - 2 months to look for another vehicle, one to my liking and budget. H got offended by the time frame I gave him and on Monday, H called my work and said that he did not have time to fix truck after all, he needed at least 1 - 2 months to fix it. That made me mad. After trying to be civil, H turns around and just makes comments, like I was being Ugly with him because I do not give him "HIS" truck, i am very confused as to why he is referring to this fiberglass thing on wheels as "HIS" truck, when the payments were being made jointly and I was the one driving the thing 90% of the time. Anyway, after that ordeal yesterday, today is not one of my better days. I a feeling sad and upset, almost in a mood to cry, or actually in a crying mood, but holding back. I feel like I can't breathe.

SUSR:<P>You are suffering the double-fog whammy of chemical substance abuse (alcohol) and the affair.<P>Toss the knife. If he brings it up (doubtful), just shrug and tell him you don't know (I know, violation of rule of honesty, technically: but you DID know, but now that you've pitched it, you honestly DON'T know).<P>Since the truck is such a big deal to him (and to you from a financial aspect), by all means, give up the truck. However, protect yourself: if you are a cosigner on the loan, tell him that you will let him take the truck IF he can get a loan to finance it under his name alone.<P>As for the $450-$500 per month child support: get it in writing, preferably in a separation agreement. Do this in conjunction with a Plan B letter. As far as no contact: as part of your child visiting, etc. have an established routine where you both drop her off, but do not come face-to-face.<P>The whole purpose of Plan B is to protect yourself as much as possible from the emotional rollercoaster he has put you on, to rebuild yourself and to preserve what love remains.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

There is one thing that I know about you, that is that you are a strong woman. You have the will to move on and the knowledge to know what is right for you and your family. You know that you can always count on your family. Never stay gloomy especially on the days when you can't breath, change the tought pattern and think of the happiness you have with your children. Do crafts with them to pass the time. also keep a journal. This will help when you have bad days you can reflect on the good days or feeling free and indipendent. It will show you that those moments of pain will indeed surpass to another day of living happy.