Well, 5 sessions and we're through. He couldn't tell therapist why he still wanted us to continue as a couple in counseling and she 'didn't feel comfortable' unless he could verbalize why he wanted to continue...<P>I, of course, said I wanted to work on our communication and problems and see if marriage could continue.<P>He countered with "I don't want to be married."<P>I said, "Well, then you need to pack your bags and leave, tonight so you can see exactly what not being married is going to be like."<P>He said, "I'm sick of you telling me what to do. Who I can see (OW). Who the kids can be around with me. When I can see kids." (see previous post 'need a little help from my friends). To therapist, "I'm sick of you (therapist) telling me what to do." She wanted an answer regarding why he wanted to continue counseling as a couple. <P>End result. Counseling is done. I can decide to continue with individual therapy, if I want. <P>Lots of anger. I'm tired and have locked myself in bedroom. H is dealing with kids. I'm not sure if I am going to come out and fix dinner or not. <P>Cali

(((((((Cali)))))))) - I have some chocolate left if you need it!<P>I'm sorry you've had such a bad reaction from your Husband - it's very hard for them to hear the truth while they're still in the fog, I think. He's really mucking you around as well and I agree - he needs to get out in the real world and grow up a bit. I know you're locked in your room right now, but I hope you come out later to read your replies! You sound like you need two hugs tonight, so here's another one:<BR>((((((((Cali))))))))<P>Hope you're OK - we're here for you.<P>Paint.

Cali,<P>I'm sorry. He's still an absolute mess. I have no idea what to tell you except, right now, he's ludicrous, you are sane, and I think you said exactly the right things in your counseling session. And, I think you are doing the right thing by pushing for him to move out.<P>I don't know how to do those cyber hugs but take one anyway.<P>Oh, and you don't need to be strong tonight. You can go to sleep if you want. Let him handle the whole thing. He doesn't want to be married, fine. Well he can't wish the kids out of existence. Just let him handle it (if that's safe).<P>You are in my prayers,<P>Ish

Cali,<P>I'm sorry. He's still an absolute mess. I have no idea what to tell you except, right now, he's ludicrous, you are sane, and I think you said exactly the right things in your counseling session. And, I think you are doing the right thing by pushing for him to move out.<P>I don't know how to do those cyber hugs but take one anyway.<P>Oh, and you don't need to be strong tonight. You can go to sleep if you want. Let him handle the whole thing. He doesn't want to be married, fine. Well he can't wish the kids out of existence. Just let him handle it (if that's safe).<P>You are in my prayers,<P>Ish

I have my laptop in my room, so I am 'listening' and posting and crying my eyes out.<P>And, yeah, the kids are safe. He's a terrific father... a little bit harsh lately, but then sometimes so am I.<P>Cali

Cali, I am so sorry for this blowup. You have been doing such a good job at plan A. Don't go into plan B in anger now, k? Keep up plan A for a little while so you can deposit some more love units before going to plan B, k?<P>Ishmael is right. Let him deal with the kids tonight. You sleep and take some time for yourself.<P><<<<<<<<<<<Cali>>>>>>>>>>>><BR><<<<<<<<<<<Cali>>>>>>>>>>>><P>Sounds like he has entered the anger stage. Maybe this is progress in a weird sort of way. I am so sorry for your pain.

Oh, well in THAT case, if you're listening to us, we've got to make you laugh. I am going to keep sending you jokes. Maybe one of them will make you laugh even a little??<P>You can call me if you want. I am here, my kids will be in bed in 10 minutes.

I discovered that I scream the same way, whether I'm about to be devoured by a great white, or if a piece of seaweed touches my foot. <BR>- Axl Rose <P>Instead of getting married again, I'm going to find a woman I don't like and just give her a house. <BR>- Rod Stewart <P>Luge "strategy"? Lie flat and try not to die. <BR>- Carmen Boyle, Olympic luge gold medal winner <P>There are only two reasons to sit in the back row of an airplane. Either you have diarrhea, or you're anxious to meet people who do. <BR>- Henry Kissinger <P>I saw a woman wearing a sweatshirt with "Guess" on it. I said, = "Thyroid problem?" <BR>- Arnold Schwarzenegger <P>Honesty is the key to a relationship. If you can fake that, you're in. <BR>- Courteney Cox, as Monica on "Friends" <P>Hockey is a sport for white men. Basketball is a sport for black men. Golf is a sport for white men dressed like black pimps. <BR>- Tiger Woods <P>Clinton lied. A man might forget where he parks or where he lives, but he never forgets oral sex, no matter how bad it is. <BR>- Barbara Bush <P>And God said, "Let there be Satan, so people don't blame everything on me. And let there be lawyers, so people don't blame everything on Satan." <BR>- George Burns <P>What are the three words guaranteed to humiliate men everywhere? = "Hold my purse." <BR>- Sandra Bullock <P>My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son of a bit**. <BR>- Jack Nicholson <P>My girlfriend always laughs during sex no matter what she's reading. <BR>- Steve Jobs (Founder: Apple Computers) <P>Things you'll never hear a woman say: "My, what an attractive = scrotum!" <BR>- Patricia Arquette <P>Ah, yes, divorce..., from the Latin word meaning to rip out a man's genitals through his wallet. <BR>- Robin Williams <P>Women need a reason to have sex. Men just need a place. <BR>- Billy Crystal <P>According to a new survey, women say they feel more comfortable undressing in front of men than they do undressing in front of other women. They say that women are too judgmental, where, of course, men are just grateful. <BR>- Robert De Niro <P>In the last couple of weeks I have seen the ads for the Wonder Bra. Is that really a problem in this country - men not paying enough attention to women's breasts? <BR>- Hugh Grant <P>There's a new medical crisis. Doctors are reporting that many men are having allergic reactions to latex condoms. They say they cause severe swelling. So what's the problem? <BR>- Dustin Hoffman <P>There's very little advice in men's magazines, because men think, " know what I'm doing. Just show me somebody naked." <BR>- Jerry Seinfield <P>See, the problem is that God gives men a brain and a penis, and only enough blood to run one at a time. <BR>- Robin Williams <p>[This message has been edited by hurtbyhubby (edited June 26, 2001).]

Hi SIC (this is a record for me posting a few times in one night ... )<P>Feel arms around you ... <<<<<<<<<<<<HUG>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><BR>You probably didn't need to stumble across my post tonight . Sorry. I hope that this works out for you. Have faith, know that this is the best place for you right now. Many people here care, take care. --AMM

Cali,<P>I am so sorry to hear how things went today. It seems that your husband does need a dose of the real world. If he is lucky he will wise us sooner then later and come home to you and your children.<P>Divorce solves few problems and ususally creates more. Plan B is a good idea because it'll give him a chance to live the reality of his "dreams".<P>But tonight I'm concerned about you. You need a big {{{{{{{hug}}}}}}}. Leave the parenting to him and take care of yourself. Everyone's been right on with that one.<P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

and here's some from me...<P>TOP TEN REASONS GOD CREATED EVE<P>10. God worried that Adam would be lost in the Garden of Eden because he wouldn't ask for directions.<P>9. God knew that someday Adam would need someone to hand him the TV remote.<BR>(Parenthetically, it has been noted that men don't want to see<BR>what's ON TV; they want to see WHAT ELSE is on.)<P>8. God knew that Adam would never make a doctor's appointment.<P>7. God knew that when Adam's fig leaf wore out, he would never buy a new one for himself.<P>6. God knew that Adam would not remember to take out the garbage.<P>5. God wanted man to be fruitful and multiply, but he knew Adam would never be able to handle labor pains and childbirth.<P>4. As "keeper of the garden," Adam would need help in finding his tools.<P>3. Adam needed someone to blame for the Apple Incident, and for anything else that was really his fault.<P>2. As the Bible says: "It is not good for man to be alone."<P>1. And the No. 1 reason of all [Tada, drum roll, fanfare, etc.]<P>God stepped back, looked at Adam, and declared: "I can do better than that.

and some more....<P>What Men *Really* Mean<P> <BR>"I'm going fishing."<BR>Really means....<BR>"I'm going to drink myself dangerously stupid, and stand by a stream with a stick in my hand, while the fish swim by in complete safety." <P>"I'm going hunting"<BR>Really means....<BR>"I'm going to drink myself dangerously stupid, and stand in the woods with a lethal weapon in my hand, shooting at anything that makes a noise that isn't blaze orange. I think my friends and I will all be back in one piece...(unless, of course, we blow a fuse in the truck on the way home!)" <P><BR>"Let's take your car."<BR>Really means....<BR>"Mine is full of beer cans, burger wrappers and completely out of gas." <P><BR>"Woman driver."<BR>Really means....<BR>"Someone who doesn't speed, tailgate, swear, make obscene gestures and has a better driving record than me." <P><BR>"I don't care what color you paint the kitchen."<BR>Really means....<BR>"As long as it's not blue, green, pink, red, yellow, lavender, gray, mauve, black, turquoise or any other color besides white." <P><BR>"It's a guy thing."<BR>Really means....<BR>"There is no rational thought pattern connected with it, and you have no chance at all of making it logical." <P><BR>"Can I help with dinner?"<BR>Really means....<BR>"Why isn't it already on the table?" <P><BR>"Uh huh," "Sure, honey," or "Yes, dear."<BR>Really means....<BR>Absolutely nothing. It's a conditioned response like Pavlov's dog drooling. <P><BR>"Good idea."<BR>Really means....<BR>"It'll never work. And I'll spend the rest of the day gloating." <P><BR>"Have you lost weight?"<BR>Really means....<BR>"I've just spent our last $30 on a cordless drill." <P><BR>"My wife doesn't understand me."<BR>Really means....<BR>"She's heard all my stories before, and is tired of them." <P><BR>"It would take too long to explain."<BR>Really means....<BR>"I have no idea how it works." <P><BR>"I'm getting more exercise lately."<BR>Really means....<BR>"The batteries in the remote are dead." <P><BR>"I got a lot done."<BR>Really means....<BR>"I found 'Waldo' in almost every picture." <P><BR>"We're going to be late."<BR>Really means....<BR>"Now I have a legitimate excuse to drive like a maniac." <P><BR>"Hey, I've read all the classics."<BR>Really means....<BR>"I've been subscribing to Playboy since 1972." <P><BR>"You cook just like my mother used to."<BR>Really means....<BR>"She used the smoke detector as a meal timer, too." <P><BR>"I was listening to you. It's just that I have things on my mind."<BR>Really means....<BR>"I was wondering if that red-head over there is wearing a bra." <P><BR>"Take a break, honey, you're working too hard."<BR>Really means....<BR>"I can't hear the game over the vacuum cleaner." <P><BR>"That's interesting, dear."<BR>Really means....<BR>"Are you still talking?" <P><BR>"Honey, we don't need material things to prove our love."<BR>Really means....<BR>"I forgot our anniversary again." <P><BR>"You expect too much of me."<BR>Really means....<BR>"You want me to stay awake." <P><BR>"It's a really good movie."<BR>Really means....<BR>"It's got guns, knives, fast cars, and Heather Locklear." <P><BR>"That's women's work."<BR>Really means....<BR>"It's difficult, dirty, and thankless." <P><BR>"Go ask your mother."<BR>Really means....<BR>"I am incapable of making a decision." <P><BR>"You know how bad my memory is."<BR>Really means....<BR>"I remember the theme song to F Troop, the address of the first girl I ever kissed, and the Vehicle Identification Numbers of every car I've ever owned, but I forgot your birthday." <P><BR>"I was just thinking about you, and got you these roses."<BR>Really means....<BR>"The girl selling them on the corner was a real babe." <P><BR>"Football is a man's game."<BR>Really means....<BR>"Women are generally too smart to play it." <P><BR>"Oh, don't fuss. I just cut myself, it's no big deal."<BR>Really means....<BR>"I have actually severed a limb, but will bleed to death before I admit I'm hurt." <P><BR>"I do help around the house."<BR>Really means....<BR>"I once put a dirty towel in the laundry basket." <P><BR>"Hey, I've got my reasons for what I'm doing."<BR>Really means....<BR>"And I sure hope I think of some pretty soon." <P><BR>"I can't find it."<BR>Really means....<BR>"It didn't fall into my outstretched hands, so I'm completely clueless." <P><BR>"What did I do this time?"<BR>Really means....<BR>"What did you catch me at?" <P><BR>"What do you mean, you need new clothes?"<BR>Really means....<BR>"You just bought new clothes 3 years ago." <P><BR>"She's one of those rabid feminists."<BR>Really means....<BR>"She refused to make my coffee." <P><BR>"But I hate to go shopping."<BR>Really means....<BR>"Because I always wind up outside the dressing room holding your purse." <P><BR>"No, I left plenty of gas in the car."<BR>Really means....<BR>"You may actually get it to start." <P><BR>"I'm going to stop off for a quick one with the guys."<BR>Really means....<BR>"I am planning on drinking myself into a vegetative stupor with my chest pounding, mouth breathing, pre-evolutionary companions." <P><BR>"I heard you."<BR>Really means....<BR>"I haven't the foggiest clue what you just said, and am hoping desperately that I can fake it well enough so that you don't spend the next 3 days yelling at me." <P><BR>"You know I could never love anyone else."<BR>Really means....<BR>"I am used to the way you yell at me, and realize it could be worse." <P><BR>"You look terrific."<BR>Really means....<BR>"Oh, God, please don't try on one more outfit. I'm starving." <P><BR>"I brought you a present."<BR>Really means....<BR>"It was free ice scraper night at the ball game." <P><BR>"I missed you."<BR>Really means....<BR>"I can't find my sock drawer, the kids are hungry and we are out of toilet paper." <P><BR>"I'm not lost. I know exactly where we are."<BR>Really means....<BR>"No one will ever see us alive again." <P><BR>"We share the housework."<BR>Really means....<BR>"I make the messes, she cleans them up." <P><BR>"This relationship is getting too serious."<BR>Really means....<BR>"I like you more than my truck." <P><BR>"I recycle."<BR>Really means....<BR>"We could pay the rent with the money from my empties." <P><BR>"Of course I like it, honey, you look beautiful."<BR>Really means....<BR>"Oh, man, what have you done to yourself?" <P><BR>"It sure snowed last night."<BR>Really means....<BR>"I suppose you're going to nag me about shoveling the walk now." <P><BR>"It's good beer."<BR>Really means....<BR>"It was on sale." <P><BR>"I don't need to read the instructions."<BR>Really means....<BR>"I am perfectly capable of screwing it up without printed help." <P><BR>"I'll fix the garbage disposal later."<BR>Really means....<BR>"If I wait long enough you'll get frustrated and buy a new one." <P><BR>"I'll take you to a fancy restaurant."<BR>Really means....<BR>"Someplace that doesn't have a drive-thru window." <P><BR>"I broke up with her."<BR>Really means....<BR>"She dumped me." <P><BR>"Will you marry me?"<BR>Really means....<BR>"Both my roommates have moved out, I can't find the washer, and there is no more peanut butter." <BR>

One day three teenage girls were driving along when they had <BR>a terrible accident. They were all sent to heaven. At the <BR>gates, they met St. Peter. He said to them, "Welcome to Heaven. <P>There is only one rule here, don't step on the ducks, don't <BR>bother them, just leave them alone. If you do bother them in <BR>any way you will be handcuffed to the ugliest person in Heaven for all eternity." <P>The first teen thought that this was rather funny and in all her laughter stepped back almost falling over. "QUACK!" She had stepped on a duck and so she was handcuffed to the ugliest person in heaven. The other two teens walked around Heaven constantly torturing their unlucky friend. As fate would have it the second teen stepped on a duck also. She was handcuffed to the second ugliest person in Heaven. <P>The two girls sat moping at the fact that they were chained to these people for eternity. The next day they saw the third teen, she was handcuffed to the most gorgeous guy they had ever seen. <P>She looked at them, realizing their questioning eyes, and said, "He stepped on a duck."

A fireman is at the station house working outside on the fire truck when he notices a little girl next door. The little girl is in a little red wagon with little ladders hung off the side. She is wearing a fireman's hat and has the wagon tied to a dog. <P>The fireman says "Hey little girl. What are you doing? "The little girl says 'I'm pretending to be a fireman and this is my fire truck!" The fireman walks over to take a closer look. "Little girl that sure is a nice fire truck!" the fireman says. "Thanks mister," says the little girl. <P>The fireman looks a little closer and notices the little girl has tied the dog to the wagon by its testicles. <P>"Little girl," says the fireman, "I don't want to tell you how to run your fire truck, but if you were to tie that rope around the dog's neck I think you could go faster. <P>The little girl says, "You're probably right mister, but then I wouldn't have a siren!"

{{{{{{{{{{{{[Cali}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Just wanted to ad my hugs to your inventory. There are alot of people here who care about you. Sounds like you've gotten some good advice already.<P>How are things going now?<P>You holding out?<BR>

Cali:<P>Look at the bright side: you didn't exceed the HMO's 6-visit maximum for a calendar year.<P>Hang in there, my prayers are with you.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

SIC,<P>{{{{{{{{{{Big Sorry}}}}}}}}}}<P>Question, was the counseling traditional or with one of the Harley's?<P>Big difference in my book. Traditional marraige counseling failed in my marraige, in fact I believe it excerbated teh problems in the long run. Lots of discussion but no useful tools.<P>In the words of Jimmy V, "Never give up, never ever give up!"<P>Stick with plan A for now and continue on your own with the Harley's.<P>Chin up<P><BR>JK<P>

Cali,<P>{{{{{{{{{Cali}}}}}}}}}}<P>I wish that their eyes would just open for a brief moment so that they could really see themselves and hear the things that they say! <P>As difficult as it is now, your counselor was probably right, to continue with conseling when he is not ready is giving you a false sense of him really trying to work on things and is giving him a false claim that 'he tried counseling and it didn't work'. I'm dealing with this aspect now. My H has briefly attended counseling on 3 other occasions, but never really put forth any effort. He is unwilling to give it another chance because he has "tried it before".<P>It may actually be the catalyst that convinces your H to try counseling at another time, because he was not forced to stick with it when his heart wasn't in it.<P>I know what it is like to go through each day waiting for the other shoe to fall and to see if he will really carry our his plan to move out. My H left our home a week ago today. The only peace that I have is knowing that he would have never 'turned the corner' if he continued to feel imprisoned in this house. He had to get out so that he could make the decision to return. Anything less that this would always be being forced to stay, in his mind. Each day, I start with the prayer that something will convice him that he needs to be back home. I know this may be a long road, but I am still hopeful - my broken heart can take no more pain at this moment.<P>I hope and pray that if your H does leave, it is a quick trip to reality land and that he comes back ready and willing to rebuild your marriage. You are in my thoughts and prayers.

dear sic -<BR>I've been reading all here, and I just have to tell you how bad I feel for you. I just cannot believe your H is doing this. Everyone gives thoughts, prayers, and advice. I just cannot figure what would make a person be this way. He is in deep fog, withdrawal, and depression. I don't like the things he says. Have you thought to talk directly to Dr. Harley, to see what he says. We see it differently from the outside - without the pain (like you) and we know it is hard. You should not have to go through this. Are you thinking about a Plan B now? Please take care, I know that is hard to hear and do with the damage your H is doing to you, your self-esteem, and your family. aftershock

Caliiii - where are you? Post to us and let us know how and what you are doing!! Did Paint and I get a little laugh??