For the past couple of weeks, my W has been in a "mood". Some days she's her usual talkative self, other days she's very quiet, introverted, irritable with our daughter. Has spent several nights on the couch. Are these symptoms of withdrawal?<P>Incidentally, my W has never admitted affair. I have no idea where it stands. I think OM may have put it on hold until she divorces me. She says she wants a divorce, but hasn't done anything about it. She wants me to help her with it. She's on her own on that one.<P>Just wondering!<P>sad dad

Sad,<P>it sure done and it sous like its only the beginning. You need to plan A immidately!<P>Call and schedule a solo session with Steve, and read all you can on plan a and withdraw here, keep posting and asking questions, dont' focus on her but on you and plan A.<P>Good luck<P>JK<P>QUOTE]Originally posted by sad dad:<BR><B>For the past couple of weeks, my W has been in a "mood". Some days she's her usual talkative self, other days she's very quiet, introverted, irritable with our daughter. Has spent several nights on the couch. Are these symptoms of withdrawal?<P>Incidentally, my W has never admitted affair. I have no idea where it stands. I think OM may have put it on hold until she divorces me. She says she wants a divorce, but hasn't done anything about it. She wants me to help her with it. She's on her own on that one.<P>Just wondering!<P>sad dad </B>[/QUOTE]<P>

JK,<P>I have been plan A'ing for a while without even knowing it. <BR>Since I confronted her about A two months ago, I have been as loving, understanding, non-judgemental as possible. No LB's. I have not brought up OM at all. He is not the problem, he is a byproduct of the problem.<P>I am working on myself and the things I've done that have contributed to the situation. My W has acknowledged my changes to me and to a mutual friend. <P>I have been working with someone from another website who has tremendous insight on these things. He has helped me see the part I played in all of this. I have recently purchased some books on "controlling" and verbal abuse. I can't wait to read them. They may not help me with my W, but I will be a better person in the end.<P>I will think about contacting Steve Harley. Is he really helpful?<P>Thanks,<BR>sad dad

movin' it up

My W was still in her "mood" tonight. I asked her if everything was OK and told her to let me know if there was anything I could do for her. Just wanted her to know that I care, but put the ball in her court.<P>She said she was going for a drive. I guess she needed some space. I don't know where she went. I feel asleep on the couch. Woke up about 9:30 and she was already in bed. <BR>More signs of withdrawal??? Don't know, this is all new to me.<P>sad dad <p>[This message has been edited by sad dad (edited June 27, 2001).]

Going to bed earlier, biting nails, not eating, staring off in space, avoids looking at me when talking to me.<P>Are these symptoms of withdrawal, guilt, etc.?<P>sad dad

>> Going to bed earlier, biting nails, not eating, staring off in space, avoids looking at me when talking to me.<P>Sounds like guilt to me. Just a guess, but she knows she's hurting you and regrets it and doesn't know any way out. Sounds like my wife about two weeks ago or whenever she's trying to hold something in to keep from hurting me.

SD,<P>These are definite signs of withdraw and could be signs of guilt. BOth are avoidence mechinisms.<P>Steve is tremendously helpful, more so that any counselor I have ever talked to. This stuff really works and he knows what he is doing.<P>Good Luck.<P>JK

sad dad - first of all, it sounds like you're doing a terrific job - Plan A'ing and not knowing it. Actually, I did the same thing for a few months before I found this site. Kinda validates Plan A, right? If you have the desire to make things better, it makes sense.<P>By all means schedule a solo with Steve Harley. Call 888-639-1639 in the US. Either Marian or Laurie (both really nice gals) will answer and fix you up.<P>Withdrawal? Maybe. Guilt? Maybe. Confusion? Definitely. I'd hesitate to jump on the withdrawal bandwagon - you could be suffering from just wanting to believe she's been dumped. I'd rather conclude she's trying to figure herself out.<P>But you know what? It doesn't matter what it is. Your actions will all be the same. Keep doing what you're doing.<P>WAT

sad dad,<P>I have been there exactly and it is withdrawal, plus confusion on what she wants next. I was extremely moody and short tempered at times. And then in the next moment, I was cheery and loving towards my family. Then when I got to thinking about the OM, the mood would come back. As long as she is trying to figure out what she wants, this will keep happening. And it got worse for me as I watched<BR>my husband change into the man I always wanted. You would think that I would have been extremely excited and happy about the changes I saw, and today I am, but back then I thought the OM was everything I could want in a man. So the conflict was on in my mind at least. And so were the erratic behaviors, needing my space, time alone, irritable,<BR>then loving and kind. <BR>I hope the counseling will shed some more light on this for ya.<BR>but this is just how things went for me.<BR>debbie

Thank you all for your replies and encouragement.<P>I really hate to see my W going through this, but I know right now I can't do anything to help her. I'm going to take my daughter out for the night to give my W an evening to herself. Appears she could use some time alone, plus there's nothing I enjoy more than time with my daughter.<P>sad dad<P><BR>P.S. dlm - did things work out between you and H???<BR><p>[This message has been edited by sad dad (edited June 29, 2001).]

Sad dad- sounds like withdrawal to me. My H would sleep on the couch off and on during this time. Refused to kiss me saying it was as if I was asking him to kiss the next door neighbor- he was THAT confused. His A with a single coworker got so emotionally involved that he even filed for D on me and cancelled it later saying that OW pressured him to do it. We went 7 mo without any physical intimacy. This after 15 yrs together and 3 kids. But I hung in there- and about 2 mo after the withdrawal stage he began to want to recover and now our marriage is better than EVER! I tried to keep busy and not question him during this time when he was confused. If he was irritable I tried to ignore it as much as I could. If you think your W is still in contact though you need to be firm with her about the conseuqences of divorce. I told my H if he insisted on divorce I would take the kids and move to another state and start my life ALL OVER! This seemed to be the wake up call he needed. I am definitely not advocating divorce- but for heavens sake dont make it EASY for them. My H kept saying mean things to me to try to make ME be the one to file to ease his guilt. I refused. I did get an attorney for my own protection and to ask questions of but didnt file. There is HOPE for recovery- its a rocky road and takes time but we are getting there. My H used to go to therapy and refuse to participate- now he's going and doing MUCH better.I refused to give up on my marriage and eventually he WOKE UP! lifeismessy

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dlm:<BR><B> As long as she is trying to figure out what she wants, this will keep happening. And it got worse for me as I watched my husband change into the man I always wanted. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>dlm, Thanks for this. This is exactly what I needed to hear today. How long from the time you noticed him becoming the man you wanted did you really come around to him?<P>SaltWater<P>

I told her that I won't make a divorce anymore difficult than it has to be. But I won't help her with it. She'll have to do all the work and she'll have to deal with the guilt alone. I won't share that with her. I can't do something that I don't want just to make it easier for her. I haven't told her this, but I will next time she brings it up.<P>I have contacted an attorney just to get some questions answered. I found out that I'm entitled to half of her profit sharing and company stocks, which is a significant amount of money, not that matters.<P>I wish she would tell me what she's going through, but I know that's not realistic at this time. I won't give up on her and hopefully that will mean something to her someday.<P>sad dad

sad dad,<P>My H and I are in recovery now and things are going very well. It was so hard at the beginning as you know. Hard for both of us. I am only telling you things from my perspective. There was little trust on both our sides. I<BR>didn't want to believe that he was really trying to change or that he would change. I figured it would all just be an act if I stopped seeing the OM right away. And besides, that is what the OM told me. While in the fog, I believed everything the OM said. It very hard thing to become so attached to someone other than your spouse and then to have to reconcile all those feelings for both. Some have told me that if I had never stepped across that boundary I wouldn't have to fight those issues, but all that is beside the facts now. And so it is for your W. So many little issues weigh on the mind after the A is over before the fog is completely gone and while the confusion lingers. I know for myself, I wondered what was right for me? Didn't I deserve what I wanted now? Which man loved me more? Who did I want to love me? And then there is the struggle of hurting those I loved and watching their faces as I had to deal with all that was done. So I would lash out or become withdrawn. And when things seems all better it was because I was seeing the OM again. And I let it be known that I had to see both in order to make the "right" decision for myself. That is how deceived I was. But the end of March I finally just decided that I had been married too long and invested too much time in my marriage to just discard it like some old shoes. I sent a no contact letter which was honored by the OM. And my H has truly changed into the man I knew he could be. not for me, but because he spent so much time with God and discovering what God wanted him to be. He was always striving to do God's will, but now I am totally blown away by his character. And I could go on and on and on about all the wonderful things I see in him now.<BR>He is so caring, so humble, so full of unconditional love,<BR>so tender and gentle, so protective, and so much more. But it took months for me to see this with my own eyes and believe it with my heart. And I don't want to miss out on what God has in store for us as a family.<P>Saltwater,<BR>It took me 5 months of watching my husband while I still was seeing the OM before I sent that no contact letter.<BR>The whole time I was going back and forth between the two,<BR>each man claiming to be a Godly man, the only real Godly man I saw was my H. And I know that is was only thru much prayer by others and by God revealing things to me that I was able to see this. I had one very good friend who I confided in. I knew that no matter what she would be completely honest with me about everything. One night the OM told me that he believed God brought us together because we both deserved to find some happiness in this life and we had made mistakes in who we married. Well, since at that time I thought I loved him so much, I just knew he had to me right. I talked with my friend and in her blunt way she pointed out to me that God never uses sin to accomplish His purposes. And she reminded me of my vows before God when I married. She told me that God did not make a mistake in allowing me to marry my H. That I was making a mistake now.<BR>Of course I didn't want to hear any of that, but those words kept coming back to me over and over.<BR>Anyways, these were some of the things that brought me back to realizing that my H was where my loyalties should lie.<BR>while it has only been a very short time that we are back working on our marriage, it was been great to know that the changes in my H are real and permanent. I am the luckiest woman.<BR>Oh, sorry about writing a book here.

dlm,<P>I'm so glad to hear thing are going well. My prayers go out to you.<P>Our situations sound very similar. I too have made many changes, not for my W, but for me. I want to be the best person I can be. My W forced me to take a long, hard look at myself and I didn't like what I saw. I changed because of her and I'll always be thankful to her for that, regardless of what happens to us.<P>My W has acknowledged these changes, but like you, she's probably not convinced that they are permanent. There are other changes I want to make (being more affectionate, intimate conversation, etc.) to meet some of her EN's, but she's not giving me the opportunity right now. If and when she does, I'll do all that I can to be the man she dreamed of when she married me. Honesty has always been a problem for her, not that she's dishonest, but I don't think she really felt safe being honest with me about her feelings. Hopefully we'll get to that point. I think it's necessary for our marriage to survive and improve.<P>My W is a beautiful and wonderful person, but I think my behavior in the past has made her feel otherwise. She's got some self esteem issues, which she's admitted to indirectly. Having an A probably doesn't help.<P>I've got to do everything I can to show her the depth of my love for her, my desire to make her happy and my commitment to our marriage. I will not give up. Thanks for your support. Success stories like yours and others help keep me going.<P>sad dad

Sad Dad,<BR>Oh my goodness, reading what you wrote could have been written by my H. I am still working on those issue of self-esteem. But now that he knows what my ENs are he is working to meet those needs. And I realized that the OM was just a natural at meeting those needs. no hard work needed, but just sitting knowing how much my H is trying and how well he is doing at meeting my needs makes me feel so special. So keep on working on finding out your W's EN's<BR>and doing what you can to meet them. <BR>My prayers are with you. And keep us posted on how things are going for you and your W.<BR>debbie

dlm,<P>I don't know about your situation, but I think in mine the OM was able to meet my W's EN's because she inadvertantly told him what they were when she confided in him about our problems. Makes it kind of easy, don't you think?<P>sad dad