What I feel, lately. Kinda grim, very depressing. Some of you have read this. Please don't analyze, it's not a precurser to my demise (honest). Many inner issues are revealing themselves to me. Blowing away my entire perception of my life thus far. A reality check to beat all reality checks. Not so sure I'm ready to ride this bull. Could be eight seconds too much.<P>Dark destructive secret thoughts,<BR>burn inside my head.<BR>The pain inside had come to life, and <BR>all I see is red.<BR>The hatred anger and violence swell,<BR>my demons I can't control.<BR>They cloud my sense of reason,<BR>destroy all that makes me whole.<BR>This battle, I fear I'll lose one day,<BR>probably sooner than I think.<BR>I'm often glad there's nothing deadly, <BR>in the cabinet above the sink.<BR>I walk a tightrope over death,<BR>no umbrella, no pole, no net.<BR>Some cruel and hateful beasts I think,<BR>won't let me fall just yet.<BR>One more kick, or cut, or slap to my face,<BR>must somehow bring them pleasure.<BR>Taking from me first, <BR>all my joys, my hopes, my treasures.<BR>I feel so trapped in this blinding rage,<BR>like a cell without a door.<BR>I know that someday I will finally see,<BR>what the hell this life was for.<BR>Like a shallow joke to torment me,<BR>yet another day will come.<BR>My strength slips more and more each day,<BR>soon I'll find there's none.<BR>I wonder what becomes of those,<BR>who succumb to what they've fought?<BR>Just another point to add,<BR>to those dark destructive secret thoughts.<BR>

Sorry guys 'n' gals,<BR>I'm really not trying to bring anyone "down" by these posts. I am pretty overwhelmed by what I'm feeling/thinking. I don't usually post when I get upset or hurt. In fact a lot of times, I'm not very comfortable telling anyone anything about myself or my feelings lately. Kinda withdrawing from the outside world, a bit. I don't really like the indications this presents, so in order to come to a bit higher level of "normalcy" I thought, I'd let a bit of my "stuff" out. Thanks so much for the support. I can't really say whether or not I'll keep it up, but for now, I think writing will help.<BR>A.

Thanks for keeping us up to date Arik!! <P>Wish I could go beat up some demons for ya'!<P><<<<<<<<<<ARIK>>>>>>>>>>>>><P>Keep writing. I thought your poem was very nicely written (even though it was on the darkside).

Arik:<P>Writing does indeed help. As far as posting: post what you want, we are here to help: even if it is just offering an extended hand.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

{{{{{{{Airk}}}}}}}}}}<P>I read this in Time yesterday and thought how appropriate it is to our situations:<P>"Some say love, it is a river<BR> that drowns the tender reed;<P> Some say love, it is a raxor <BR> that leaves the soul to bleed."<P>Maybe the song is old, but it's still true.<BR>Sometimes our souls cannot bleed anymore...just nothing left to give. Maybe it's time to give yourself time to heal.<P>Faye

Dear Ark<P>Don’t let those freaking ”demons” get to you - I know them all to well!!!!! - And I’m not talking about the bible (not my believe). I know the ”demons you are fighting they are like mine but carry another shape and come in a different decease but serve the same purpose. ****!!! - I say ****! - You seemed to be so grounded and then WOOS you are down in the pit again. <P>That ”poem” realty stroke a cord in me” - You should see my paintings *LOL* - they would have matched! - I’m a lot in the ”black/white” BUT hey!!!!! - ALL those questions all those BIGGER why’s do not go with ordinary society life - unless you find someone who has the same ideas - and if you do then It can make a world of difference OR it may destroy you both!<P>Either you know what I mean or not <P>However - We will all see in due time what this life was about - but why rush things????? - But YOU have a W and you have a child. you have a family ... I have neither. And they Love you!!!!! - Regardless of what is going on in your W’s life I think that there is a lot of love there....I just think, who am I to say?<P>Start a band or start a - Night class for ”We on the edge of existence” - or whatever - Scream out your energies because you seem to have a bunch of them! - Or simply WRITE A BOOK!!!!!<P>You know - I’m a **** myself so much like you, I see so much in myself in you! - I have printed out you poem - I could have written it myself!<P>Hang in there!!!!<BR>HF<P>Ps. If I wasn’t a female I would offer you to mail me if you want to talk - we seem to have much in common - BUT what do they say???!!! - males and females can never be friends and NEVER mail to eachother *LOL* - Americans ....OPPS...did I say that American word again *Kidding*. <BR>

HI Arik-<P>Just wanting to send you hugs and wishes for brighter better days real soon <P>You ARE a good person.<P>You WILL feel better one day!<P>Do whatever it is that helps you through this bad time.<P>Can't wait to see you smilin again <P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."

Hi Arik,<P>Just saw this thread. All I can say is that sometimes it's ok to just feel. I went through several months last year when I just cried and cried. I could barely get up when it was time to pick up my kids and act "normal". It's ok. I think it was actually better to not resist the feelings. My fear would say - you can't just feel - you may not come back, but it was ok.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>My issue isn't one that can ever resolve anything, or for that matter, apparently ever be resolved, or ever benefit anyone, or for that matter ever do anything beneficial for my own life. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I have often felt this way - I have spilled even more parts of my story on the sexual abuse thread over on emotional needs. BUT <P>I don't believe it. When I hit bottom, my life had meaning because I had two kids that needed me, ME!<P>I hope not to hurt you if I quote a verse of Scripture - don't know your beliefs and I usually don't, but I truly believe this one, "But God works all things out for our good..."<P>It's ok if you don't want to share details and your poem was beautiful - yet without knowing the details; I'm convinced this can and will benefit you in the BIG picture.

Now before I start my reply - I HAVE not spellchecked!!!!! so sorry if I'm not doing well on my English!!!! - And I am not drunk :)<P><BR>Hi Z - thank you for your reply - <P>And thanks to everyone else that replied!!! - much food for thought!!!!<P>And *wink* back on all the ”European remarks” - Made me laugh - no offence at ALL! - Thanks H for explaining the PM/AM thing :)<P>As for the ”fantasy/fog” it is all a real tough thing. But I have learned here that what you//all on this board are talking about is the ”Harley-guys” interpretation of the above things. Perhaps that is what led me astray in all my questions. I took the words as the wore ”fanyasy - fog” and didnt really understand that they are a part of the MB language. You know a word can be interpretated in a million ways depending on who reads it and what they put in it. Fantasy and fog are as blurry words that you can get - UNLESS you see it through the eyes od MB’language. I have understood that now.<P>Just to be a bit on the philsospical path - aren’t we all in some kind of ”Fog” even though it doesn’t concern ”affairs” - I think it’s a bit of a human nature to ”fog in” sometime. Perhaps I’m wrong.<P>I’m probably still so much inlove ...Hmmmm......I mean ”infogged” so I can not see straight - even though I try. So I’m so sorry that I don’t buy the whole consept but as much as you make sence to me don’t I at least make a tiny sence to you? Or is everything I say ”fogged” so to say?.<P>OK - to be specific - Z (Hmmm Z ...sorry for taking your example - but it was a good examle you gave ....)<P><BR>I would define the WS’s fog as follows: <P> The WS is not behaving in a manner consistent with the person the BS knows them to be. And very importantly<BR> they are not acting in a manner consistent with whom they have represented themselves to be in the past. The<BR> inconsistent behavior is called the “Fog”. For the most part, when one marries, they choose a spouse whom they<BR> believe has a certain set of moral values, beliefs and behaviors. When the WS starts behaving in a manner that<BR> goes against everything the WS themselves said they believed in, it is called the “Fog”. <P> For some period of time prior to the affair (some times for years and years) a husband tells his wife that he loves<BR> her more then life itself and that he pledges his love to her until death do them part. He tells her that they are soul<BR> mates and that he has never known a love like theirs and knows he could never find another love like this one. (You<BR> know, like the things the MM tell the OW, too). He behaves this way for years. For years the WS lives his life<BR> according to strong convictions. And then one day the BS suddenly finds out that he was been telling someone else<BR> that he loves them too. He has been living in a manner totally out of the character for the man his wife knew him to<BR> be. The BS sees her husband as being in a FOG. As being someone other then the man she married. <P> And of course this holds true if the WS is a woman too.<P>I have no doubght at all that the H loves his W - but you are saying that a person can not change - or more correctly that once a person feels something for another person those feelings can never change?<P>I as I said have never been married but I have lived together with 2 men. the last guy that I lived together is my best friend today. We meet once or twice a week we have dinner we go to the woods and look at birds (his hobby:) - we chat and get along grate - NO attraction more then friends and we split up 9 years ago. WE are friends - just friends!. And yes once back then we thought that it would be WE forever and we pronounsed our unduying love to one another just as you state above - but we grew apart - and we desided that we wore better of as friends as lovers. - Is that soooo strange? - Or are you trying to tell me that just because we didn’t get married we didn’t promise eachother out love at the time?<P>This is what buggs me about marriage (and i’m not alone on this - people put to much on the ”paper” so to say - It’s like when you say yes in church or in court (not everyone is religious) - you all of a sudden OWN the other person. That is not love - you can not own another person.<P>Some of you speake in anologies like ”would I steal your car or your house or you whatever” - all of those things are material - tou can never own a person neither can you steal a person - human beings are not things to own or steal - Just my opinion! - I won’t go into a philosophical mood today and start another debate - even though my fingers are itching toooooo...... <P><BR>Now I see the Fog for the OP this way.<P> The OW WILLINGLY enters into a relationship that she knows is not legitimate. She knows that the MM is not truly<BR> available. He tells her things like he loves her more than life itself and that he pledges his love to her until death do<BR> them part. He tells her that they are soul mates and that he has never known a love like theirs and knows he could<BR> never find another love like this one. (You know, like the things the MM tells his wife too). <P> The OW somehow convinces herself that her love and the MM’s love for her is more real than the love that he and<BR> his wife have shared. She convinces herself that she is the special one that the MM will not cheat on and will not lie<BR> to. That is her fog. The OW chooses to believe in this fantasy.<P><BR>Now - here i’m bound to agree with you Z <P>Although I have to say in my iniminy defence that I did beleive him when hie told his W and his family that he was getting a divorce and even made it open to his collagues at work - asking them if they knew of any free appartments - I bought it - I beleived it - Major FOG - OK - I perhaps can see it now - but I will nor argue with you on this point.<P><BR>So for the last one:<P>”<BR>And then the affair’s fog.<P> The affair exists in a fog because both the MM and the OW believe that their sexual attraction and emotional<BR> attraction to each other is true love far beyond anything ever experienced in this world by anyone else. They forget<BR> that love, in its early stages is exciting, but that true love grows over time with nurturing and shared experiences.<BR> They come to believe that their love is more important then anything and anyone else in this world. They forget<BR> that love is fragile and it seldom flourishes on a foundation of deceit, treachery and hurt. That is the fog of the<BR> affair.<BR>”<P>Can’t completely agree there. I agree to the point where we kind of wore ”we against the world - thing” - But when that passed after as you call it D-day - we struggled like hell. That was what I was trying to say that It’s not just merry-go-lucky - we live in a fantasy world. No we had to deal with all the outside parties. He more then me. Always questionned not only by his W but with his btother his brothers W his parents - everyone telling him he was destroying his life ...etc..etc...- and of course I was the big devil (you have no Idea what stories they manufacured about me - If I was to beleive them myself I would kill myself) - he had to deal with himself and his turmoilt and protect me at the same time. (Protect me - because they wore all talking behind my back and they made a chicken out of a feather). This almost killed us. We broke uo of course (officially) but we grew stronger on a friendship at first level and then back again..... - Then you know the storry - It didn’t end now did it - well now it has for a week and counting - GOD give me streanght!!!!!....<P>I know love in the early stages - I have been inlove before - and so has he. I beleive I know what love is but I also know how it is to feel ”forbiden love” - perhaps I’ll burn somewhere in the eyes of some - but I doubght it. I have my hell right here and right now.<P>Not only Love but life is more fragile then we think Z!<P>I’m happy for you - I really am!!! - both for you and STL (was that ”Saturday Night Live” *LOL* - read someone thought about that everytime he read your name - Made me LOL - Keep those roses blooming ;)<P>Over and out :)<BR>HF<P>_______________________________________________________________<P>....And thus the native hue of resolution<BR>Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought....<P> - Shakespeare’s Hamlet -<BR>

Pleases didregad - totally ignore the last message!!!!!!!!! - O had a PC Problem and I used Aiks post's to heart through - now I-m bsck on track - have so excuses sorry Arik'!!!!!!! - PLEASE Igonore the Latest post

You are among friends who understand what you're going thru. It will get better, I promise! My prayers are with you.<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Being a better Arik:<BR><B>I am not sure what the purpose of this post is. I just feel so absolutely destroyed right now. I don't even know a word that describes it. I can honestly say that in this moment, I am experiencing pain on a scale that I have never felt before. I want to disappear. I cannot even give details, too uncomfortable. I'm not sure what responses I'll get, and I'm not sure that I really want any. I'm just feeling so lost and hurt, that I came here to let some of it out. Sorry, guys...no worries. Not gonna do anything rash, really. Just OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Arik,<P>Part of fixing onesself is getting honest with onesself...<P>That is all you need to start out...<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR><P>May the roads rise to meet you,<BR>May the winds always be at your back,<BR>May the sun shine warm upon your face,<BR>The rains fall soft upon your fields,<BR>And until we meet again,<BR>May god hold you<BR>In the hollow of his hand.

Hey, you old s***head! <P>Arik, are you in some sort of counseling? Because if you are, what you're going through is actually a POSITIVE, even though it feels awful. Coming to terms with ourselves, our lives, and the influences on us can be a very painful process -- like lancing a boil. It's not uncommon to feel worse before you feel better. The role of a good therapist is to hold your hand (figuratively) through that minefield so that you come out safely on the other side.<P>If you don't have this sort of guide, I recommend that you get one.

Some day I'm going to find you some of the stuff I've written. I tell ya... between the two of us, we could outfit a speed/death metal band for at least 3 albums.<P>This is going to sound kinda weird, but I'm actually pretty happy for you. <P>I knew that would get your attention. <P>Here's my theory... We all have demons. The darker the demon, the harder it is to face and the worse the experience- but conversely, the greater the gain. <P>In the two weeks following D-day I reached lows I never thought possible. I wanted to curl up and dissolve. It was like I had a perception of myself and my world. Then someone came along and kicked a big hole in the side of my illusion and [censored] came out.<P>Without knowing specifically what you are talking about, it's hard for me to know if I'm going in the right direction or not. Anyway, the horror and filthy loneliness of those few weeks spawned one of the most fundementally profound personal changes I've ever been through. <P>I say appreciate your feelings. For me, they were ultimately redemptive. Sure as heck didn't feel that way at the time, but now I'm grateful that I was able to grow through it.<P>I had a way better post put together but lost it. This is my bleary eyed, befogged brains attempt to recreate it.<P>ttfn<P>deut

Ya know!! You guys just don't quit do ya!?!? Just when I thought I could fade away to nothingness, somebody has to come along and show me that there might be hope. <P>Well heck with you guys . Now, I'm going off to pout, and try and convince myself that I can't get through this, again. Sheesh, all that work.....do you know how long it's going to take me to get back to that horribly depressed state again??<P> Well, okay, in all actuality, it really wouldn't take all that long. I know for a fact that I will be there again all too soon, really. <P>What has come to my attention is that for most of my life I have allowed an alternate Arik to hold the wheel. <P>He is a really crazy driver who loves to live on the edge of destruction. I can't say that I don't like the occasional sunday drive with him, but sooner or later, I'm gonna need a better chauffer.<P>Dazed- Hey there , thanks for the encouragement (and the name calling LOL), no I'm not going to any sort of therapy...not sure I can take it at this point. As for someone holding my hand...they would have to be really big hands at this point. Though I do have a very special friend that has opened up her e-mail account to me and man, have I been fillin' it up lately. Nope it's not a counselor, but it is really a bonus to talk to someone who really knows when you are honest and when you are not. As for the rest? Time will tell. I appreciate the concern (truly). Good to hear from you.<P>Deut- what can I say man? I told ya before that we have GOT to talk. 3 albums?? Who are you trying to kid?? We've got ten years of concert tours built up. Not to mention all of the wild album covers to go with it . You hit it right on the head my friend, with the whole perception of your life and yourself. Did I ever have it wrong! You've got my "E", so use it dude man!!<P>Bill- Ahh yes, honesty. That thing that I have run from for thirty years? I have begun to see that there is way more to my story than I was ever aware of my friend. Volumes of my life must be thrown out, and re-written. New theme, new plot, entirely new cast. Hell, the leading character just wasn't working out, so even HE has to go!! Where this new story will take me is anybody's guess, but it's gonna be one heck of an adventure. And they say that Mr. Toad had a wild ride!<P><p>[This message has been edited by Being a better Arik (edited June 29, 2001).]

Hey Arik, glad to hear you are in a better mood today!!

Arik, I am concerned that this person holding your hand is a she....

Dazed,<P>Hey it's Nicole, Ariks wife, I just wanted to let you know that I am fully aware of the person he is in contact with and it is somebody that I trust completely. There is no doubt in my mind on that matter.<BR>Thanks for the concern though. It's much appreciated.<P><BR>Thanks <P>Nicole<p>[This message has been edited by Patient Love (edited June 29, 2001).]