OK, first things first...<B>Zorweb</B> and <B>SeenTheLight</B>, you were right, I did respond without the proper research. That is something I don't think I have done before and (embarrassed blush) I have commented that it is improper to do it. I have read most of Cali's posts, just didn't follow her story closely enough to know it intimately. For that, I am sorry and you were both right to point it out to me.<P>Now, I have done the research and here it goes....<BR>D-Day 4/25/01 -- Plan A begins shortly thereafter <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000037-18.html" TARGET=_blank>Roll Call(Page 18)</A><BR>Draft of Plan B letter - 6/1/01 <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/009319.html" TARGET=_blank>critique plan b letter</A><BR>Assuming (probably incorrectly) that Plan A started on D-Day, that is 5 weeks and 2 days. OK, not three weeks, but also not 2 months(STL).<BR>OK, none of us <I>exactly</I> right on this one(me very much included).<P>The remainder of this post is directed to SeenTheLight..<P>First a comment on agreement. I noticed in one post you stated that everyone's situation is different(paraphrase). Had you done any research on my previous posts you would have noticed that you and I are in lockstep on this issue. Even though most of these affairs follow a "pattern", there are situations in each that might call for a modified approach. I am a believer in the MB methodology, however, I do believe that you have to tweak them in some situations and maybe break from the mold for others. In my case, Plan B would have been a certain "death knell" for my marriage. I knew that because I knew my W and our environment better than anyone else. I refuse to seriously label as "zealots" those who subscribe to the Harley principles chapter and verse. This is where we differ. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and even if we don't agree, or dislike the writing style, it is still beneficial to look closely at *ALL* advice to find any hidden nuggets.<P>As for my comments on "shallowness" and "revenge", these were not directed specifically at Cali, mostly on you people who responded. As for research, I am on record and have been for a long time about this issue...<A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/008311.html" TARGET=_blank>To the "Old-Timers" -- An Alarming Trend</A> As you will note, I am not the only one concerned with the quality of advice being bandied about here lately.<P><B>STL -</B> I don't dispute what you say about WhoDat's manner. It <I>can</I> be abrasive, but he usually cuts to the heart of a matter without all of the schmooze and lathering. Sometimes, I have a tendency towards the same, but I do try to temper how I phrase things. AND, I do admit when I am wrong, and I was... Now, since you seem to want to comment ad nauseum on the appearance WhoDat gives, I will turn the tables. Most of the time, you seem pretty solid, giving good advice that isn't usually specific to the problem at hand. However, when confronted with something you disagree with like WhoDat or me, you present the image of being a snooty, know-it-all, "holier-than-thou" pontificate with a superiority complex("There. Hope the soapbox has been sufficiently kicked out from under you.") that might have a problem taking his own advice("People here are coming from all levels of emotional turmoil. So (not speaking for anyone else) why take it too personally?"). I, like you, work as a computer professional, and this is a common attitude that I have seen in this profession over the years. <P>You also have a tendency to grab a sentence or phrase that someone has written and present it out of context. Example: "So, if you take exception to anyone, please do so by name and not collectively, and further, make sure your exception is properly directed."..My exception *WAS* properly directed. I feel that there has been a general tendency for the "throw the bum out" comments when they are not appropriate and I didn't intend to single out anyone in particular. Had you done your research on me(or WhoDat) before making a "directed", personal attack, you would have known this. Another example:"You don't know me well enough to judge me"...I didn't judge you specifically or generally or in any way at all personally. I was critical of a "pall" over the advice being given here(Let's see, here are some samples of responses to Cali: "You go girl"..."You go"..."Rest assured that you inspire many"...These are really not helpful and constructive comments). However you must believe that you are so important that we all revolve around you and everything said is directed to you and you alone. Well, let me burst your bubble, you are just one small ant among many of us small ants in the anthill.<P>--DeWayne--

DeWayne:<P>Well, hmmm. First, as one computer professional to another, we will address the Y2K bug: 4/25 to 6/26-28 is two months, or roughly the equivalent of 8 weeks, not 5.<P>Secondly, I gleaned from your message the positive things. The rest: well, you are entitled to your rant, just as I am entitled to mine.<P>As far as superiority complexes, as one ant to another, I take umbrage (as pointed out in another post) to certain injustices (and as also pointed out in that same post, those are my PERCEIVED injustices). Now, you may not perceive something that I perceive as an injustice in that manner. That is your right.<P>But, when targeted by direction quotation (and out of context, I might add), I will respond. Do I feel morally, intellectually or in any otherwise manner superior to anyone here? Of course not! Each of us is here because of similar needs: to improve our marriages. To this end we all offer unique perspectives that, taken as a whole, generally piece together a pretty good tapestry of what MB is all about.<P>So, yes: I do respond when targeted specifically by name. Otherwise, I am content to do what everyone else here does: try to help other people, and in so doing, learn something of myself as well.<P>(An aside, since you quote me "Rest assured you inspire many" ... this was directed to Cali because of her state at the time: she has helped many on this site, and that statement, which you have taken out of context, was meant in that manner. Lastly: you remark about certain attitudes in the computer profession--professions do not have attitudes, people do.)<P>So I will lay aside my "self-importance" and you can lay aside yours ("us old-timers"). The whole point of being here is to help others, whether we have been here one day or two-and-a-half years.<P>If one finds something stated that goes against the grain, it is best approached by saying: I disagree with some of the things said here ... and then go on to address the topic(s) of disagreement, and not the individuals themselves.<P>Hope that clarifies things,<BR>Godspeed,<BR>STL<BR>

*S*..why cant we all just get along?<P>To me this is like television....there are hundreds of channels and not all of them appeal to everyone here. I sit back and read two highly intelligent individuals, with great ideas, much emotion, and a wealth of knowledge and passion and marvel at the bantering. <P>As a good counselor once told me....<BR>*In as much as you are both right, you are both wrong*...<P>You two are great people...dont waste your energies on this stuff, when you can both be out there helping others. I understand the desire to defend your positions...I am a master at it too, but you have way too much to give others to do this to each other to see that energy wasted in this way. <P>I hope I dont come across as rude or offend either of you or Zorweb, in talking to her husband in this manner. I think most people in here realize that there is a wealth of information and ideas for them to look through and pick and choose the ones they feel are most representative of their situation. I also dont believe that either of you is of the mindset that your ideas or your way are the only ones that work (are ya?...LOL).<P>So, respectfully, get back to what you do best....help the rest!!<P>Have a great day!!<P>*Out of our greatest fears, come our bravest deeds!*<P>Trueheart<BR>

TH:<P>In substance, I thought that is what my response stated: let us all help others.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

<B>STL - </B> You know, you are right...disagree with the message but not the messenger...we should both practice that perfectly. <P>However, again as "one computer professional to another", there is no Y2K bug, just in your input processor...As I noted, the Plan B draft letter was posted on 6/1/01....Fast forwarding to today doesn't change that...<P>--DeWayne--

DeWayne:<P>Agreed: should we tell the Spartans, too?<P>I guess the Y2K misunderstanding stems from comparing Apple dates to Orange dates (Windows, perhaps?): you were referring to the Plan B letter date while I was referring to the instantiation of Plan A.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

OK, you computer geeks, my mouse is all the way over to the right side of the mouse thingy, but the pointer is all the way over on the left side of the screen. Now what?<P>Also, how much does a new cup holder cost?<P>WAT

WAT:<P>Give your mouse a pregnancy test. Or check it for moose brain worms. Hmmm ... wonder if it is a deviant strain: mouse brain worms?<P>As for the new cup holder, you mean the one pre-built into your computer, right?<P>About $70 or so. The cupholder works better, though, if you use those commercially available computer cupholder coasters, usually silver or gold in color.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

Good grief you guys<P>Why is it that everytime a female has a problem you think she's pregnant?<P>LOL<P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare