Ws,Bs,fuml, all this alphabet soup is . . . what it is . . . yet the anonymity of this forum does not dehumanize ANY of you all to me. I more than "harbor" anger, I cultivate it as a tool to motivate me. (Seems I can't do [almost] anything in my life energetically w/o it at least being perceived as Anger)I sort by others. My inner dialogue IS what others say to me. That Angers me. Especially times when I agree w/the negative aspects. This will more than likely be my last post because . . . well, the reason only matters to me and that is something new [for me].I used to believe that my life was an open book for all to read and critique openly . . . yet most books have only one author , Mine had several. I let what others said to me become what I say to myself. My entire life I let my actions originate as reactions. I felt sorry for myself almost all the time and took no real advantage of ANY gifts I may have had. Created no realistic,attainable goals for myself, self esteem wasn't a part of my vocabulary, and I devalued, for no apparent reason, my one good quality/flickering desire. You are people,so in my book, there is a possibility I will be influenced by what you have to say, good or bad. One quality I have let remain a part of my self is to reason out any harm I may have caused anyone and defend myself vigorously from "senseless" criticism (bashing). In my case, in my mind, I am defenseless in my "waywardness", yet I am not willing, even in part, to subject myself to the good, monumental effort-making particpants of this (or any) site. It is finally time for ME to do something, take an action, a responsible stance. Responsible being . . . well . . . I guess I'm REALLY THE ONLY ONE who can determine that . . . for myself and my current position. So . . . TRULY, RESPECTFULLY . . .Thanks . . . but . . . no thanks . . . SO LONG.

Dude, you and I should talk. Ever looked in a mirror and seen someone else? If you take a good look right now, you'll see me. If you can find it in yourself, to realize that you can be influenced for the good, or the bad, then you must be able to see that coming here to be influenced for the good will be a benefit to you. You can e-mail me at phishbane@yahoo.com, if you would rather not have everything you say be so public. It's worth a try dude.<BR>A.

I am going to take the chance to respond to your post Efft and hope that you read it....<P>There is much history between you and your wife that none of us will ever know. I am a wayward spouse, like you, and regret what has transpired, the pain I caused, and the road we have to take to get *us* back. I am not a professional in relationships, by any means, but I do know a couple of things...<P>Harboring and cultivating anger results in only one thing...more of the same. How does one retrieve or even plant a seed for love is they live in Anger? How do you ever get past the blinding light of anger to see anything else? Yes, you have a gift, but it is much more than flickering desire! Your gift is in the woman that brought you here. Any bashing that was done, was done in support of her feelings and based on the information given. The anger that you feel can only be anger of shame, blame, and judgement from those that dont know you. I also know, from my dealings with people here, that should you take the steps to *open up the book* even a chapter at a time, that you will find the same support that your wife has found. The names that you find here in anonymity are to protect people, not to blindly criticize so noone knows who they are. This site is for one purpose only....rebuild relationships....yes there is venting, yes there is judging...can you really blame someone that has been through what we have?? It doesnt matter if we are the betrayor or the betrayed....this has been catastrophic for all of us! This forum is a place where we can come...safely and inexpensively to seek some guidance, friendship, and comfort. I know for me, as one that betrayed, it has given me new perspective on what others have been through, how they have healed, how some have ended it and moved on, but mostly how they feel. The one common ingredient that you will read here, is the love that the betrayed spouse has for their partner. Even in your case, with all that she fears and all that she feels...she only wants YOU...the real YOU that she knows and loves. <P>I can only hope, as one that reads these posts, that you will reconsider staying on, learning more about the site, how it can help, and when YOU are ready, come and talk to some of us. If you want my direct email and wish to vent or share anything, I am more than willing to lend an ear. But, I ask you not to give up, not to let anger be your motivator, and to open up a little bit...it can go a long way to the recovery. <P>I wish you the best...<P>*Out of our greatest fears, come our bravest deeds!*<P>Ron

G! So glad to hear from you! I am so sorry to feel the pain and sadness behind your words. <P>You are right, only you can decide what you are going to do.<P>I believe that with the help of us here at MB and this website (and perhaps some outside counseling) that you will be happy again. You will be able to look yourself in the mirror and deal with your demons. No sh*t. But, that is YOUR decision to make.<P>Godspeed. Hope to hear from you soon.

EUML:<P>I hope you return to see this. Of course it is your life. But in life, in general, do you not use things that help you? Tools, electronic devices, whatever it is you need to accomplish the task at hand. Marriage Builders is just that, a tool. A tool to help you rebuild a marriage IF THAT IS WHAT YOU WANT.<P>No one here will twist your arm. We will present views for your consideration. We will try to help when you reach out for support. We will share resources, anecdotes, and other pieces that YOU can assemble in a manner that best helps YOU. But in the end, you are the builder of your life, and in that respect, we are but tools for you to use to that purpose.<P>Godspeed and good luck,<BR>STL

EfftUpMyLife<P>I am so glad to see you taking this first tentative step into the waters that can help heal you. I understand the defensive posture of your post. I think if I were in your shoes I'd be thinking along the same lines. The truth of how this may help you, and the motivations of the people here, you really will never know unless you give it a chance. That applies to all things in life.<P>I do not know you, and will not pretend that I do. From what I know, from knowing your wife as I have come to, plus your post here, I can tell you you remind me alot of my H, about 5 months ago, and many others that have been down this path.<P>I only want to say I am here if you would like to talk about anything. I would be as objective and supportve to you as I am to your wife or anyone else here on this site.<P>I know from my own experience right now there is nothing that anyone can say that will turn you from your present course unless you want to get off. No one can change another person in any way they do not want to be changed, and I know that is true to the deepest meanings of the statement.<P>My telling you that you are about to make the biggest mistake of your life, would only make you more determined to prove you are not. My telling you that your wife loves you as part of her own self, and is ready to support you in finding that new you that you want so much to find, would make you throw out reasons that nothig will ever change. My telling you that the grass is never as green as it looks from the other pasture would make you defend all the wonderful qualities of your new love. My telling you that the pain your wife is going through is equivalent to being nailed to a cross is likely to make you say how she will be ok, she will get over you. My telling you how much better and happier you will feel if you were to unburden yourself of the lies and deceit and give your marriage another true chance, that so many people have come through far worse and found happier more fulfilling marriages than before, is likely to make you say that it's just too late, too much damage has been done, and you need to do this for reasons 1-399 that you have been focusing on for so long now you can't see past them.<P>So I won't say those things. But if you are even slightly curious, even slightly interested, I would encourage you to look further. I would be happy to answer any questions you may have as would many others. I care about you, your wife, and your children.<P>God bless you during this time of struggle and grief.<P>

Why would this be your last post? (btw I am currently a ws who is not reconcilled for some similar reasons)..... this place is great for several reasons, first is a reality check of sorts. Where else can you post exactly what you think or feel and have literally hundreds of your peers (other human beings) comment on it.....frankly if enuf people disagree with me [ok, so it takes hundreds ] it does make me think maybe I should rethink a position, that is powerful stuff eff, and it's all FREE. Secondly, I personally find a lot of value in observing the (normally) intimate relationship details of hundreds of people, it does offer insight into my circumstances (and yours), that would be hard to obtain any other way. Surely you must have some concern [I am assuming you are rational, despite the notion all we WS are temporarily insane ], that you actually make healthy choices in your life.....right? You just want them to be your choices (and that is how it should be). <P>I have sparred with your W some on the behalf of all us WS that are married to strong-willed.......um.... well just will say it....controllers. But it works better if the actual spouse is here, cause hard to get very specific without all the facts. So not only will you help yourself in ways you may not even know, you will also keep the record straight, as well as help others. My life is a mess at the moment (pretty much just like yours), and I post for reality checks, but also in the hope that my experience helps others as well (figure some good should come out of everything in life, is all about attitude I guess). Plus I like to talk alot.......<P>You have some interesting comments in your post, I will be happy to throw 2 cents in if you stick around. Keep in mind you can do whatever you want here, (we all can) so maybe look at this as something to use as you see fit...... not something to ignore, it really is a unique opportunity...ya know? And yes you will be influenced, that is how interaction works of course, that is what makes it kinda fun in a way, taking that risk you may be persuaded differently than you thought, but also validation occurs, so is an equal opportunity influence place. <P>As for defenseless in waywardness, no problem, I am on record as saying I accept what I did was wrong (is a no brainer naturally), but I am not consumed with remorse or guilt and figure it was a predictable consequence of lots of stuff, and assigning guilt, blame, is useless and I ignore it. You can too. So eff, what's the deal, you really don't love cali, or you just feel like you are drowning and jumped in a liferaft with an understanding soul? Or maybe just not so sure of anything at the moment.....this is the place, lay it out, see what happens. You got absolutely nothing to lose, and lots of upside potential for your efforts.<P><p>[This message has been edited by sad_n_lonely (edited June 28, 2001).]

Anger is a good motivator. I have heard it said that "the problem which angers us the most is the problem God has created us to solve." So anger can be used constructively.<P>I agree with you that we should not have our peace inside of others' heads and we should go with the voice of our own conscience. You know, what our 'first mind' tells us to do.<P>It's too bad that you feel like there is nothing worthwhile available to you at this site. I disagree with you that your whole life is eff'd up. That's pretty extreme. In Christ, we only have temporary setbacks but we don't have to allow ourselves to sit back, we can arrange for a supernatural comeback. <P>It's not over until we win. Love never fails. God is love. He's on our side.