I dread being alone with my H nowadays.. because I know the A is going to come up. Sometimes it's sublte, sometimes it's blatant, like today. I went home to have lunch with him, and just as I was about to leave, he brought it up again. "How could you do that, how could you lie, cheat, connive, deceive..etc etc" .. I didn't feel good, and I TRIED not to lose my temper ( I didn't feel like hearing it AGAIN).. I said "If you will ever realize how depressed I was, maybe you would understand a little.".. He said "That's not an excuse." I went on about how he wanted me to be everything.. he wanted me to be pretty, in shape, together, a good housekeeper, a good mother, a good cook, work, a socialite, outgoing, and on and on.. I said "You know, if I were everything you wanted me to be, I would be perfect." He admitted that's what he wanted. I told him that for YEARS, I had put him above myself, trying to please him, but I was never good enough... over the last few years he started to cut me down, call me names.. yet he still soley focuses on what I did. How I could have done that to him. It has been 8 months. The OM and I.. at our last conversation the day after, promised each other we would go home and try to save our marriages.. and we both have. I assume he is doing ok... but my H stays depressed every day. I have had phyiscal problems lately (upset stomach, headaches, etc).. I wish I knew what to do. I wonder what Dr. Harley would tell him... or me.

LeighAnn,<BR>I am a BS that is still seperated from my WS and she is so angry and blaming of me right now. But I do know those same feelings your H is having towards you. Its almost a reverse A fog. I had such expectations for my wife that when after about our 4th year of marraige, we have been married now 7 and a half, I started to withdraw from her so much that I wanted to seek something else. i knew adultery was wrong so i turned to porn and boy was that a bad idea. (another story) But i do want you to be patient with him. Until he realizes that you may of wanted the same pefection of him and that you both are imperfect and now you can be real with each other in your imperfection that is when genuine "love" can occur. I wish so much my wife would see that and come home. I know your well aware of the hurt you've caused, but for a man the ego is so strong that we must be able to see that our worth is ot based on our WS, but on loving our God whom loves us unconditionally an dthen we are able to love undconditionally. <BR>Mike

Megzilla...You are right... so right about unconditional love (another one of our many arguments/disagreements).. my H does NOT believe in that!! He feels there must be constant validation, constant proof.. or it cannot be. He believes that if I truly love him, than I should always want to be with him, not take my eyes off of him, etc... (We've been married 13 years and have two kids).. He put soo much pressure on me to "be" what he wanted to the point that he started verbally abusing me.. PLUS he wanted my constant admiration and affection. I am not a real outgoing, real loving (outwardly) type person, so it was already difficult. I firmly beleive in unconditional love. I believe that when you truly love someone, you love them for who they are and you are happy just to be with them. He admitted to trying to change me over the years, and has no idea how much it destroyed me.. how lost I was, how depressed I was. You're right about the ego.. his ego is unreal. He keeps telling me "it's different for a man."... which makes me angry. Women have feelings too.. we're much better at keeping it bottled up, unfortunately, because it leads to severe consequences. Men have to realize that women CANNOT do it all!!! They cannot "take care" of everyone, and be that perfect person. The pressure is unbelieveable.

Leighann:<P>I'm coming more from your husband's viewpoint here. My W was the WS and she has basically told me that I was expecting her to be superwoman. She also added that she felt she could never do anything right in my eyes. Well, I think she was carrying it to extremes but now I could see how it all sounded that way. After studying the EN and LB questionnaires, I think that I was more likely just requesting out of her that she meet my most important EN. If she had been able to meet these, I don't think I would have been upset with her if she had not been superwoman. She was/is taking on superwoman tasks that I felt were/are not constructive to our family or our relationship (lots of extra work and volunteer activities-give, give, give). Of course I didn't know about EN back then...<P>That is still no excuse for what she did. She is an intelligent woman and has a strong faith and I thought she could talk about her problems with me. She didn't. Why? I don't know. Maybe she felt uncomfortable doing that. This is remarkable considering how forward and strong of woman she really is with other people. I guess she felt threatened by me in some way. She said that OM made her feel safe and secure (besides tingly all over and making her heart flutter).<P>Your H responses (questions, etc.) are things that I really, really want to bring up with my wife, over, and over again. Why? Because maybe that will be the way I will find out where I screwed things up and find out how to make her happy. But I don't anymore. I think I did a couple of times in the first week or so following D-day but I've made an effort not to since then. Now we are nearing 12 weeks out. I can see that it won't do any good to bring these things up. Besides, all she could say back then was, "I don't know." and I don't think she has any better answer today.<P>If your H feels like me, your H feels many negative emotions now (rejection, anger, hurt, etc.). He is more likely to express these than you were before the A. I feel these too but not as strongly any more. Now I'm trying to eliminate the LB but, judging from my W response, I don't think I'm doing a very good job. She definitely doesn't want me trying to meet her needs for Affection or SF. Maybe it is too early or maybe I have just hurt her too much in the past and she is afraid to give me another chance.<P>I think if you can get you and your H to think about the EN and LB concepts and talk about each of yours, that things will start making sense for each of you and you will see where change is needed. What would help me out is if my W would tell me what EN I was not meeting for her and if she would listen to mine and we could start talking about these. A little talk and negotiation would be appropriate now. Thank goodness she is finally willing to go to counseling together (w/ Steve Harley). My fear is that my W will not accept my efforts any longer and will no longer be a GIVER towards me and not try to meet my EN. I fear she will want to only do what makes her feel good (raise the kids, her job and volunteer work) and just use me to provide her a home and be a father and babysitter for our three sons while she is being superwoman for everyone else.<P>Every time I say "I love you" and she just turns away, I feel a little sadder. Try to tell your H that you care about your relationship and that you need a little room to breathe and I think he will back off some (although believe me, it isn't easy when you think you haven't done anything wrong...).<P>My W asked me one night, "What do you do if you're stuck in the snow with your car?" "Do you give it more gas or back off and take it easy?" I said "Take it easy." She said "Yes." She didn't have to say anymore.<P>SG

Sprayerguy:<P>Do you have any idea how hard it is to love your H with all your heart and feel like a failure in his eyes? Women, nowadays are expected to be so strong... to be the housewife, the mother, the caregiver- and, typically, the husband, for the most part.. goes to work. My husband works ALOT. He works several extra jobs and isn't home much. When he is, he feels neglected and wants to work out, ride his bike, etc. He's no couch potato, but he's always too busy for the family. I would love to see him put 90% of his energy into the kids, and I'll take the 10% he has left over. We'll have our day when they grow up. We had our days before them. They are most important. So many men don't seem to want to sacrifice for the children. Women do... and they do. The husbands feel left out. Why? Maybe it's ego, I don't know.. but you have no idea how much energy children take...physical and mental- and I love every minute of it. I don't want to be outgoing with lots of friends (he pushes me to have girlfriends), I don't want to be an athlete (he pushes me to be). I want to commit to my family, and one day, I'll develop my own interests. I AGREE that an affair is no answer and was wrong.. I know. But, maybe for her too, I was intimidated by my husband.. the type A, go-getter, achiever... no wonder he was.. now I know.. he didn't have near the responsibilities that I did/do. I'm sure your wife, like myself did NOT mean to hurt you. The OM for me, made me feel good about myself and who I was. I didn't have to try to be anything with him.. and didn't want to. My H constantly compared me to other women.. he made me feel so bad about myself (I'm 36, have a masters degree, attractive).. but I didn't have the personality that he wanted or desired. My H will not do anything for our relationship right now. He's there, but he wants me to do it ALL. (surprise) He wants me to prove my love.. to think of nothing but him. As usual, I constantly fail.. I have tried to accept that I cannot please him.. as badly as I want to.

Leighann,<P>Then I feel really sorry for you. My perspective was that I never compared my W to any other women, never worked more than 50 hour weeks, wanted to make love to her and make her feel like the sexist woman in the world, I always made the kids lunches for school and made sure they practiced their instruments and finished their homework, and always was the one to turn off the television so the kids would get out and be more active. With each household or family task that I helped with, my W took even more time to give of herself to other people. When certain things were not done, like kids watching television for 2 hours before I came home and not touch their instruments or homework and dinner not being even started, I would ask why and why couldn't she drop some of her other job and volunteer activities to help get some of these things done so I wasn't always seen as the bad guy in the kids eyes, she just told me to go with the flow and relax. Sorry but I expected a little more help here.<P>Your situation is different and I pray for patience for your H. I'm doing a lot of praying lately and it will be easy to work you guys in as well. <BR>SG

Leighann, <BR>I can completely relate to your situation (except that I am the BS). My H expects me to do everything and when I cannot, he degrades me. I spend so much time trying to do things perfectly that I have lost myself. I guess that is when his EA began. He said I was boring and no fun. I am sure she was much more exciting than I am. She doesn't have kids, just a H. <BR>I have no answers for you. I just thought you should know that you're not alone. I guess it's possible that if I were ever around men, I could have been the WS. I am around moms and kids 95% of the time. I have completely devoted myself to my family and it is still not good enough. He wants me to be at his beckon call, but when I am, it is not exciting enough.<BR>I hope that things get better for you. It's not easy knowing that nothing you do is ever good enough for the person you love most in the world.<BR>Good luck,<BR>Window

Leighann:<P>I, like you, was a WS (I have also been the BS twice). The A was your choice. The marital state was both of yours. Your H is in a fog of pity/hurt. The two of you should get counseling. Perhaps a joint call to Steve Harley?<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL<BR>