Okay, I realize when you are in plan B you are supposed to have no contact with your H/W. But, unfortunately, with kids (or through my MIL), minimal contact still occurs.<P>So, my problem for the night is how do I explain what I am doing (my H just doesn't seem to GET the plan B letter). Or do I not even bother? <P>I have a problem implementing plan B when my H believes it is because I want nothing to do with him and he thinks I am better off this way anyway (because he thinks so low of himself).<P>The truth is that I'm implementing plan B because I WANT HIM and I need to do this for my sanity while he is in la-la land with OW, but he doesn't seem to GET it (because in his mind he is not WITH her, just "seeing her").<P>And it doesn't help that I am going through MIL for most things. She tends to relay the messages not quite right. But what am I to do?<P>Okay, so do I just forget about it and let him think what he wants and not care?<P>Or on the rare occasion I actually talk to him and he brings it up, do I change the subject to kids or just re-state why I am doing what I'm doing?<P>I mean I understand the principles, but in all practicality, when my H brings the kids back and says "I really need to talk, I am confused." How do I say "Do you agree to no contact and working on the marriage. No! Oh sorry, I can't talk to you then." It is just mean and not me and how do I make him realize WHY I am saying that and I am not just trying to be mean??<P>Or if he just starts making small talk and wants to spend time with me, HOW DO I SAY NO when I really want to say YES! How do I ask him to leave and make him realize why without being mean??<P>I don't want to screw up my plan B again (I did once, the last time H came over, he's coming over AGAIN tomorrow night to bring the kids back)...<P>Any suggestions are appreciated. I just want to be prepared this time.<P>Thanks!<BR>HbH

Well, I'm no expert, as you might know, having been in it for 10 hours.<P>But I would just say that from what I see, you need to avoid the minimal contact that is occurring. There needs to be less chance of him initiating the contact.<P>I know, it is much easier said than done. I'm sure I'll have some trouble not seeing or talking to my wife when it is kids switching day, since mine are only 3 and 5.<P>If he thinks you want nothing to do with him, was there something in your letter that made is seem this way? Forgive me but I can't remember which letter yours was, since there have been a bunch lately.<P>The advice I got was to just say that everything he needs to know is in the letter, and leave it at that.<P>I'm sure you'll get more advice, from people more familiar.<P>Just for the record, I just heard from someone that my wife is taking this as some kind of stupid joke, or thinks I am talking to a friend I have that is very bitter from his divorce. I hardly ever see him, it has nothing to do with that. But she is already cooking up her own concept of how silly and unnecessary this situation is.<P>Good luck tomorrow.<P>

Thanks Rick. I'm trying to avoid the minimal contact, but it's near impossible. As it is my MIL is driving up 2 hours tomorrow to drop the kids off with H! She asked him to have the kids just run in when he drops them off, which would be great, but realistically I know they will be asleep when he gets home after the long car ride and the LAST thing they will do is jump out of his car and come in. He will have to carry them or I will need to go out and get them.<P>I think part of the problem is going through MIL for everything. I have no choice, but things get misconstrued a bit, y'no? <P>My H has VERY low self-esteem and has been suffering with this for a while. His active imagination makes him twist my letter around and believe I am "out to get him", "will be better off w/o him anyway", and "just want nothing to do with him". <P>I guess I explained myself to him last time I broke plan B, and he seemed to understand then. (I just said that I needed this to be able to get over him since he was in limbo and couldn't make up his mind). But it's like he just FORGETS we even talked and starts making up these excuses again. Maybe this is normal and he is just trying to make himself feel better, I don't know.<P>Plus my H insists that nothing is going on with OW, that they are waiting until he decides what he's doing. That just makes it more difficult...<P>Thanks for the advice!

HbH,<P>You are still letting him goad you into some type of contact. You have explained to him in a letter and in person. He seems to understand it when it suits him and not understand it when it suits him. He gets the plan B letter just fine. He just does not want to go along with it. <P>Your husband may have low self-esteem but it does not excuse for all of his actions. <P>RE: “ (because in his mind he is not WITH her, just "seeing her").” <P>Huh, a married man has no business “seeing” any other woman. Fog talk for sure. So don’t even buy this one.<P>Your poor MIL is in a tight spot here. Tell her as little as possible – only what is needed to make the exchanges with the children. And if she passes messages from her son, just listen respectfully and politely and then let it go. Perhaps work on growing a thicker skin.<P>Yep let him think what ever he wants let it go.<BR> <BR>RE: “Or on the rare occasion I actually talk to him and he brings it up, do I change the subject to kids or just re-state why I am doing what I'm doing?“<P>I assume that the only time you will see him is when he drops your children off. So keep the conversation limited and focused on the children. If he presses just say (as Rick suggested.) “Everything you need to know is in the letter.” That’s it. <P>I realize this will be hard for you because it so out of character for you and so out of the script you are used to playing with him. So practice it over and over, in front of the mirror, as you walk around the house. Picture scenarios where he is with you trying to get you to talk and say it. <P>Picture this over and over “It’s night time. He drives up with the children. You walk out to his car to get the children. He says he wants to talk to you. Now say it.. “Everything you need to know is in the letter.” If he starts to talk more keep repeating it. <P>Practice, practice, practice …. This technique helped me break interaction patterns with my XH. I think that the reason I see the pattern you have with your husband so clearly is that I was the same with my XH.<P>And what ever you do, do not let him into your house when he comes to drop off te children.<P>By the way, read Rick37's posts from today... his wife is reacting very much in the say way your H did. I think it's in the WS script book.<P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

STL:<P>Plan B: No contact. Not easy, either, but do the best you can. If you waver, just chant: I can do this, I can do this, I can do this.<P>I agree with the comment above about him understanding Plan B when he wants and not understanding it when he wants.<P>Stay the course.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

Thanks Zorweb, I needed that. That's an excellent idea for practicing before he gets here. That will help me, you were right.<P>You are probably right about him understanding it when he wants. I have explained it to him in detail already, so he's just being thick-headed if he changes it around to suit his needs.<P>Not talking to MIL is tough, but you are right. Alot of times I will talk to her but not mean for her to mention it to him (nothing big, just like I still love him) but she tells him thinking it will help. (last time he replied: "not for long, I'm sure she'll get over me soon enough"). I will do this.<P>My other big hurdle is that my H is just not doing what I ask. He won't return the vacuum, he won't give me a check for the car loan and other stuff, he won't tell me when he's bringing the kids back or where he lives. I don't know how to enforce this though MIL though (she's the one asking him for it). It's not like I can say, NO YOU CAN'T TAKE THE KIDS because he won't tell me when he'll be home. That would only hurt them at this point. I feel powerless.<P>Maybe I'll ask OW to make me a good witch potion to help thicken my skin. LOL. HA.

HbH<P>You are not powerless…. You have power just don’t give it away.<P>If I recall correctly in Surviving An Affair, they did use letters to communicate as long as they stayed on topic… children, property, etc.. Perhaps you could write a short simple note to WH requesting that he returns the vacuum, provides the car loan check, and other stuff. Give your MIL the sealed envelope. That way she does not have to relay the information. What I used to do with my XH and actually still do is that I have a large envelope in my son’s back pack. Anything we need to communicate we do it in writing. <P>Seal the note in an envelope and place it in larger envelop in the backpack. That way no one is really an intermediary.<P>I am sure that there is some bag that the children take when they go with their father. <P>As for your H’s address, if he takes the children there, then he has to give you the address. Ask for it in writing. <P>If he refuses to give it to you it will not look good in court. I can tell you from my experience I would get some sort of a custody/visitation contract in place (use an attorney) because your husband really does not need to return the kids to you. He has as much right to them as you do. But I am jaded because my XH pulled all sorts of games to try to get custody of our son. So far I’ve spent some $30,000 to keep custody. It’s been a nightmare.<P>As for him bringing the kids back at any time he pleases… again a visitation agreement would help there. He does need to return them at a time that does not interfere with their sleep. Check with your attorney about this too.<P>As for his not doing things like returning the vacuum. He may not do that. Legally he has as much right to the vacuum as you do. Plus if he knows that it is annoying you it may be worth it to him to keep it. Ask once; if he does not return it go buy a new one.<P>If he will not give you the check for the car loan then tell the loan company/bank to go pick it up. (I presume this is his vehicle but the loan is in your name.)<P>In case you cannot tell I believe in walking softly but carrying a big stick.<P>What ever you do, don’t ask for the witch potion…. My understanding is that it’s made for the brains of moose infested those brain worms. You could nuke that stuff and it’s still contagious. Be wary of alien goo too.<P>Z

<B>how do I explain what I am doing (my H just doesn't seem to GET the plan B letter). Or do I not even bother</B><BR>As long as it was explained in the letter, you do not need to explain further.<P><B>And it doesn't help that I am going through MIL for most things. She tends to relay the messages not quite right. But what am I to do?</B><BR>About the only thing you need to communicate is the children.<P><B>Okay, so do I just forget about it and let him think what he wants</B><BR>Exactly!<P><B>Or on the rare occasion I actually talk to him and he brings it up, do I change the subject to kids or just re-state why I am doing what I'm doing</B><BR>You shouldn’t be talking with him except for the kids & perhaps bills and such. Don’t discuss anything beyond this.<P><B>How do I say "Do you agree to no contact and working on the marriage. No! Oh sorry, I can't talk to you then."</B><BR>Say, “read the letter” and leave it at that.<P><B>Or if he just starts making small talk and wants to spend time with me, HOW DO I SAY NO when I really want to say YES! How do I ask him to leave and make him realize why without being mean??</B><BR>Be polite. Say, “I have a few things I need to do right now, so goodbye.”<P><B>I just said that I needed this to be able to get over him</B><BR>Plan B isn’t necessarily “getting over him.” That makes it sound like you do not want reconciliation. Plan B is to keep you from dealing with him while he is hurting you so bad and to keep you from hurting him (LoveBusters.)<P>Go slow, go easy.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A><p>[This message has been edited by Chris (CA123) (edited June 30, 2001).]

Thanks Z, Chris.<P>Z, I am trying my hardest not to have to file for seperation. If I do, I feel like he has won because he has pushed me hard enough and made me do what I said I would not. I know I should be pro-active, not re-active, but... I am just not ready yet. It hurts... <P>Chris, thanks for the clarification. Too bad I can't talk to my H to clarify, but I think he has enough info to go on his own. My plan B letter basically said what you did, I just made the mistake of talking to him in person and saying it was to get over him...<P>Thanks again.

HurtbyHubby!<P>I'm with you...I keep getting my friends around here urging me to a lawyer...<P>You're doing great...keep doing what your doing...remember you were pushed to your breaking point by his actions...he needs to feel the consequences of those actions and be pushed to his 'breaking' point as a result of his own actions....<P>Protect yourself! Keep strong!<P>Hugs,<BR>(AKA) Cali<p>[This message has been edited by Diva (edited June 30, 2001).]