She called to say goodnight. My son asked her if she was coming with us Canada day. Damn.<P>She must have said he'd have to ask me, so he did. I said "we are going with a work friend" (that would ward her off).<P>After they talked, I hung up. She called back, left a message.<P>"Please call me and leave a message as to whether I can come Canada day. I think it is ridiculous that you can't come on the phone and say goodbye....hughhhhhh...oh well, whatever. Please leave me a message, I can't find my phone anyway, so I won't answer"<P>OK, experts. Amuse me one more time. Do I leave a message and say I have plans, and that my letter is very clear.<P>Or do I just ignore it.<P>This part is harder than I thought. I thought just giving the letter was the hard part. That was easy.<P>WAT - beware of this crap.

Well, do you think she'll hold up her end of the deal and not answer?<P>Remember, I think you said e-mail and voice mail. It seems that you may have to provide a message, "No, we will refrain from non-essential contact unless you are willing to agree with the terms in my letter." Hopefully she'll get the message after this.<P>I know that sounds like an ultimatum, but let's face it - the letter IS an ultimatum - but she only has one choice.<P>Want me to call her? "Rick regrets that he and the kids cannot go to Canada day with you - he has to launder his shoelaces instead."<P>WAT

Rick,<BR>Wow, she's persistent isn't she? Remember she's testing your seriousness. What are ya gonna show her? I KNOW that this is not a joke to you. . she'll see it soon enough. I say ignore it, but I was thinking, will she just show up? If you think that's a possibility maybe you should leave a message or email. Just a thought.<P>Hang tough, she's gonna have to fall first before anything can get any better.<P>WAT-OMG you are too, too funny. I'm laughing out loud. . my girls are looking at me like I'm nuts! "Launder his shoelaces"!!!!!

See, see??<P>It's tough isn't it? They don't tell you about this part of plan B, now do they??<P>Huh. They think of EVERYTHING to try and get you to cave, this is just the beginning Rick. I should know, I already caved once (My H is good, I was weak)...<P>I agree with bitsy if you think she'll just show up, then leave a voicemail nicely explaining that you are going with a work friend, and if she were to come it would violate the no contact you asked for.<P>Be strong, be strong. HbH, be strong, be strong. My H is due back anytime between now and 3 hours from now and I'll be dealing with my own plan B issues.<P>I'm sure you'll hear from me soon.<P>Good luck. Stay strong!

OK, here is what happened. My phone is ringing again as I type, so I'll no doubt add that to the end.<P>I called and left her a message, saying that my letter was very clear, and that tomorrow I'd be making plans for myself and the children.<P>Got another call, another message from her. She was obviously annoyed, and said "please let me know whether I still have the kids for August 25th to go to my sisters wedding.<P>Now give me a break. I have said nothing that would in any way indicate that custody issues have been altered. She added, that if she can't have them anymore, then neither can I next weekend (she is going away, so as if she would alter that).<P>So, sucker that I am (and sorry, but I'm hoping the rough edges will be sorted out very shortly), I left another message, saying that absolutely nothing had changed in this regard, and also she had asked if she needed to pick the kids up Tuesday morning, because sometimes she does this, but I don't need her this week. So I straightened that out too.<P>The latest call I referred to, was "oh thank goodness that nothing has changed with our schedules...ok, what a relief. She also said please leave a message when we get to my parents next weekend, because she worries, and that she'll call them on my cell phone each night I'm away and she is away."<P>Then a long winded bla bla bla asking to let her know if she needs to pick them up at babysitter Friday next week, because normally it would be her week, but I'll get them because my vacation starts then, and she is going away.<P>Now the phone has rung again, and there is another message.<P>I'll see what this says.<P>Reminding me that she wants our photo albums so that she can copy all the pictures.....hmmmm, I mentioned this on the forum or to WAT. I'm worried that I'll never see them again. What do I do. Half now and half later, or duplicate them myself. I can't really say no.<P>Huuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....this is tiring. Was it Resilient that said "Plan B Isn't For Wimps"?<P>How bad do you think I'm messing up leaving a message to her. It is how I said it had to go, and ours are 3 and 5, with a complicated custody schedule and strange work hours for her, meaning strange daycare times. I would have had to let her know by Tuesday about daycare anyway.<P>Please Mr. Phone, don't ring again tonight. I want some peace. Unless it is someone else, like the lottery people with good news.<P>Comments?<P>One other thing...where are the cronies tonight? Doesn't she have something better to do?<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Rick37 (edited June 30, 2001).]

Well, Rick, one of those rings was me.<P>I don't think you're messing up. (And, I'm taking notes.) She obviously has been affected, but is probably just confused and curious at this point - there's been a perturbation in LaLa Land. It'll take some time, I bet, for equilibrium to be re-established, if ever.<P>We're backing you and HBH up.<P>WAT

Rick,<P>I'm no expert by any means. But I think I know what Steve Harley would say. Bitsy is right, she is testing you. In communicating with her by trading constant phone messages, you are breaking the principles of Plan B. I'm not blaming you, because I fell into the same trap and even caved in. Just don't tell yourself that if you are communicating by voice mail, you might as well do it directly. That is probably what she is looking for.<P>I don't ever remember if you stated whether or not you have an intermediary. Steve had told me that I should only communicate with my wife through one. I had a problem with this myself because I felt asking anyone that knew both of us well enough would be too much of a job. I would have to hire a full time intermediary considering all the decisions that have to be made on a daily basis with my kids. It's tough enough raising teenagers when a husband and wife have a healthy relationship! But maybe an intermediary would work for you?

Ya'll are scaring me way away from plan B!<P>Rick and Hurt you are my heroes...we are here for you to back you up....<P>Check out my signature line for some 'spiritual' strength .<P><P>------------------<BR>AKA: Cali<P><I> Let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. </I> <B> Galatians 6:9 </B>

Hang in there, and don't give in. She's just trying to break your resolve. <P>Wish I had better advice.....<P>best to you<BR>B<BR>

Holy toledo!!! ... her next move will be "this is silly, Rick .. you're leaving all these messages, why can't we simply talk?!?!?!"<P>Okay .. knowing this is quite quite early in Plan B, you really need to set your boundaries early on. She is certainly working "it", isn't she <rhetorical>.<P>Here's my advice Rick, I would setup an intermediary, someone who loves and supports you and someone you can trust. Make it clear to them to expect a rash of phone calls etc. because right now your wife is adjusting to this new setup. <P>Rick, if you talk thru them to her third party she will most certainly try and punch holes in that too. You have to decide now that what you are doing is what you're going to stick to. She has a huge influence on you and knows how to use it. As I said on another post, if you wain in this Plan B effort, you can't go back again, that's when your spouse will look at Plan B as foolishness.<P>I don't mean to sound firm or unfeeling, and I apologize if that's how I'm perceived. I really think you have a good shot at getting what you want, Rick. It's when our emotions enter into the picture that we all seem to fold. You CAN do this. We're all behind you.<P>I'll be away for dinner, but will return in a couple hours. I'll look for your update. Hang in there Rick. Dammit, none of this is easy, is it.<P>Love to you,<BR>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited June 30, 2001).]

One more thing ... are all these phone calls/requests for phone messages EMERGENCIES???? <P>Remember .... you love her and your children and that's why you're doing this.<P>God Bless Rick, I'm rootin for you.<P>Best,<BR>Jo

Hang in there Rick, I know this is tough but you can do it. Don't be too disturbed by all the messages, at least your not actually talking or seeing her face to face. I would try to get as much ironed out with the kids as possible now so that you can avoid future phone calls.<P>Good Luck, Heck

Rick. . do you see her grasping at straws?? Absolutely ANYTHING she can think of to call you. . .she's still trying to make what you said in your letter be what she told all her friends it was, silly. It's NOT silly. Not anymore (not that it ever was).<P>I suppose it may take a little while to iron out the issues with the children. . .but part of Plan B is to make them see what it's like w/out your support (along with allowing you to heal & move forward, with or without, right?). Let her flounder a little. . let her wonder, give her time to think and worry.<P>Good things will come out of this for you Rick. . whether it's getting your W back (you can tell she's affected, right?. I see it), or getting YOU back. . either way, you have to know that YOU will be the winner. Maybe when she leaves you a message, write down what you would like to reply to her. . .and then wait an hour. . .read it, THEN decide if you want to answer her, and if that's what you want to say. It's hard to make suggestions to you b/c I haven't been where you are, but I can see that your W is VERY uncomfortable with this new development.<P>Be strong, and if WAT calls, you should answer!!!<P>

Excellent advice, Bitsy. I hope Rick sees this before the next phone call. <P>Jo

Thanks for the continued support.<P>The call WAT made must have been when I was reading stories to the kids. My wife called on the cell each time.<P>bitsy: If WAT calls, I'll answer. I tried WAT later, but he was busy helping people here.<P>I did read all the Plan B stuff again, just to reinforce. I know there will be a few rough edges at the start, because she doesn't get this, and is probably totally surprised, thinking it is a joke. She'll get it eventually. It doesn't fit her master plan, so it is causing trouble. I can see that.<P>No more calls tonight. I'm sure she's annoyed that she's stood up for Canada day celebration. Last year, she was in the midst of early fantasyland, year before, we did stuff together. Now she wants it back???? Oh well.<P>I'm late replying because I had a couple over that I hadn't spent much time with in the past year. We had alot of laughs.<P>bitsy: By the way, for someone that says it is hard to make a suggestion because you haven't been where I am, you have great advice. You truly developed tremendous insight from MB. Thanks.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Rick37 (edited June 30, 2001).]

Rick,<BR>Well, any insight I've developed is b/c I've had excellent teachers!! Thanks for the compliment though.<P>Sounds like you had a good time with your company, I'm glad to hear it. You're doing great. How're those shoelaces comming??!!

Rick, <P>I'm late ... but I have been busy recently helping a friend learn MB stuff, so I assume I'll be forgiven!<P>I just want to "ditto" what everyone has been saying here. Your wife doesn't "get it" yet - maybe she never will, that's so hard to say - but she certainly is testing your little "joke" and she's pushing hard. Stand strong. You've set boundaries - remember what happens if you set boundaries for children and you don't enforce them? Same thing will happen here. If you set the boundaries and stay strong in keeping them in place, you will be a winner no matter what your wife does. She will learn to respect you and your boundaries, and it might even teach her a thing or two about self respect in the long run.<P>Remember: You are a mighty oak... and she is just a spring breeze rustling your leaves.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Hola Rick,<P>How's Plan B day number two going for you?<P>Ohhh, wait .... this is "Canada Day"! Well a big FAT "eh" to ya then. lol<P>Jo

Hmmm... as far as the photo thing goes... what do you do with your negatives? I cannot be the only one who saves them all the time, right? If you have yours, then I would suggest giving them to her. That's the cheapest and best way to get copies of photographs anyways, right?<P>Your plan B is really having quite an impact on your W. Good for you!!! I cannot imagine how hard it is getting for you... but you're doing fabulous!<P>As far as the visitation with the kids goes, I would suggest getting her to fill out a calendar with the days and times she will be taking them. If her schedule is so crazy, then she can give you her kid schedule (on paper), when she brings back the kids each time (have her put it in their overnight bags?).<P>I'm not sure if any of this advice will work for you. I hope others will be able to add more to help you out.<P>I hope you and the kids have a great Canada Day today. Our plans aren't finalized here yet, but we'll play it by ear as the day progresses. As I mentioned in one of your previous posts, I'd say that at the bare minimum we'll be doing sparklers in the driveway (let's hope the 2 yr old doesn't decide to pick up the wrong end! LOL).<P>Karen<BR>

Rick,<P>Man, I wish I were in your shoes. You've provoked a *reaction*. For heaven's sake! Man you've affected her. this is great. I mean it really is. She sees what's up in a way, and she's fighting it tooth and nail.<P>First of all, I don't know if I missed something or not, but maybe you don't have caller ID? If it's available, you might think about getting it.<P>Secondly, just think about it logically. If she comes up with something that she does need to know, send her an email or a voice mail. If she answers the phone, hang up on her. If she asks something that is silly, don't bother. I guess an intermediary is a good idea, but I simply couldn't make that work with my kids in our situation. My kids are lots older and we're in a small town, so for them it's sort of like mom's moved her bedroom across town.<P>But take heart, this is bugging the s*** out of here. She doesn't like the way divorce really feels, and I think that's good. When you do give her an email or a voice mail, you can also reiterate parts of your plan B letter, not just the conditions of contact, but also some of the "plan A" type stuff, like you still love her, and want to work things out, but can't do it under the circumstances. I think it's good to remind them of the reason this situation exists.<P>Just my 2 cents worth.<P>Hang in there. I'm encouraged for you.<P>Ish