Hello kind people of the board...<P>I admit that I have not been much of a giver to the people in this forum. I've responded to a few posts, but mostly, I've been just occasionally crying for help. This is one of those posts. When I get stronger, I'll give back more. Right now, I feel like I am dying...<P>I am so very confused. I don't know what to do. I posted my story a while back (if you're interested in the whole thing, you can do a search for my name) but the upshot is that my W refuses to end her A. Just last week I revealed to her that I know who it is and I know all about it. Prior to this revelation, I had been taking constant verbal abuse from her and she was pushing me to move out by July 1. She had revealed that she was having the A but wouldn't tell me who it was. She had already had her lawyer send me a "nice" letter with a settlement offer. I had no choice but to protect myself and hire a lawyer myself.<P>Now that we've had this "talk," she says she no longer holds resentment towards me (long story -- ask if you want to know why) and admits that she is confused, doesn't know what will happen in the future, and that a part of her still loves me. She also says she has no intention of ending the A but that we should get separated and see what happens in a year.<P>I've been trying to Plan A, but it was really hard in her pre-talk state... We never talked about her ENs, I just tried my best to smile and make home a "safe" place for her. She is clearly letting the OM handle most ENs... She told me he "gives her good advice" and "doesn't let her get away with things." I used to fill those roles, people.<P>I am still providing a bit of EN fulfillment, I think, but not much. I've agreed to separate if she meets my terms of agreement.<P>It seems Plan B is fast approaching... but I'm afraid Plan A hasn't been good enough of a foundation for B... She just won't listen. Right now, she's with him and is obviously not coming home tonight. Didn't even call me to tell me she wasn't coming home...<P>I do still love her so very deeply... But I feel that she is making her choice clear to me... She told me she could not choose between us right now if she had to... said she could end up with me, with him, or neither...<P>Is separating and Plan B the right thing? If you need more info, please ask and I'll fill in...<P>Last important question: Do Plan A&B only work if you had a real, rock-solid marriage to begin with? Our marriage grew out of an A, I'm afraid (she was the WS then, too), and we've both suggested that this has caused the current situation. But we've both sort of left the possibility open to starting a REAL relationship from scratch in the future, after our separation.<P>Am I kidding myself? Is this over if we separate? I am a better person that the other man, and I think she knows that deep down. But she has to make her choices, and I have to make mine...<P>Ah, love!<P>Thank you all so very much!<P>fake_name

wow....yours takes the cake tonite darlin'.<P>At this point, you are tormenting yourself with too many questions.<P>Don't obsess. Plan A/B work either way. The important point here is that you have learned how to have a successful marriage! Congratulations on that! Most people (alas!) never know this. Whatever happens, you have made the first positive (and CORRECT) step.<P>Keep posting........<P>My thoughts are with you.<P>B<BR>

FN:<P>She is totally in the fog. The words she is using are so, so familiar with WS behavior. (You can almost script out the whole conversation.)<P>No, the marriage doesn't have to be rock-solid to begin with: most affairs happen because the marriage isn't rock-solid to begin with: emotional needs, etc. are not being met.<P>However, what MB and Dr. Harley's books teach are the roadmaps to making the marriage an environment where the likelihood of that occurring is lessened vastly.<P>To what extent the fact that she was the WS in your meeting and marrying, I cannot say. Dr. Harley's statistics reveal that WS and OP relationships seldom last.<P>Keep applying Plan A, even as Plan B approaches. Whether or not the fog will lift ... well, only time tells.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

fake_name<P>Do you feel like your love for her is dying and you just can't go on in plan A? Plan A is about making things right and making good memories for the WS so if they decide to leave they'll remember good stuff. This would be even more important if you feel your M wasn't the greatest in the first place.I don't think it won't work for you because your M wasn't great before as long as you're aiming for a newer different M.<P>If I get the chance to rebuild with my H I know we'll have to change most of the way things are.<P>You are not over if you separate. As you've probably seen in some of the posts here, many reconsile after separation.<P>Do you have the strength to carry on in plan A? If not you should go to plan B.<P>BUT DON"T GIVE UP ON YOUR MARRIAGE! There is still lots of hope.<P>

Thank you thank you thank you!<P>You don't know (well, you might, actually) how much your responses mean to me...<P>Isn't this board a miracle?<P>f_n

Yes, darlin, it is. I don't know what I would have done without it..........now, or a year ago!<P>Life is great, don't you think, when people reach out to one another.<P>Best to you,<P>B<BR>

Hi FN,<P>Plan A is used when the WS shows remorse and willing to work on recovery. At first many of us use plan A in hopes of quickly going to recovery. Alas, for many this is not to be. We stay in plan A hoping and hoping for a miracle to happen yet the WS walks all over us with anger, walks out on us in pain and leaves many broken and picking up the pieces of what is left of our marriages. <P>Plan B on the other hand puts a stop to the endless waiting. After sufficient time which the Ws knows the BS is trying to do all they can to make the home a safe haven for both mates, then plan A usually has run its course and continuation of it tends to be futile. See there is no hard and fast rule or way to go from plan A to B or back again. All are calcuated risks. No guarantees. Everyone is different in their reaction but there tends to be a trend. <P>For most, when the Ws moves out, it is generally the time to go to plan B. Watch those in that situation out here. Many Ws's reluctantly go to plan B yet once they get there, there is usually a reaction (of sorts) from the Ws in a fairly short time. Some of them see a reaction in hours, days or weeks. <P>Plan B hurts. But it also helps. Eventually the WS gets some relief from the stress of always trying to 'please' the WS. Plan B no longer requires looking out for the needs of the WS ahead of the family. Now the tables are turned. The needs of the family are given priority by all. Including the Ws. That is not by choice, that is by design. Depending on how well plan B is executed, can affect how the WS will react. <P>Initial reaction from the WS can vary. Some get angry. Most get angry and retaliate in some fashion. Angry words are given, but there is no one to hear them. Hm.... eventually those words are falling upon non existant ears and only the WS & OP hear those words. Ah..... plan B has another advantage. It can cause an air of concern for the OP. Make them wonder what the BS is up to. <P>My H's OW said I was being too cool and business like. She did not like that and told H to 'watch out' for me. Hm.... boy that felt good. Kept OW on her toes so much she became a worse maniac. Started every move H made. Made her more paranoid. Hm..... In my case, one of the hidden plan B perks. <P>Brace yourself, plan B can cause the apple cart to rock. It may even lead to a D. D is threatened during plan A and can be threatened even more in plan B. Don't let that worry you. However, plan for a D. Be prepared for it. Watch WS's actions. Some talk big and do little. Others threaten and take small actions and still others do the D and then come to their senses. There are some that do the D and stay that way. This is all a risk but the whole thing is a risk with or without plan B. <P>For me plan B was a necessity. H moved out 12/31/01, came home 4/29/01. Ow claims to be preg. H may have done that after he came home. I did not find out until June. Ready to kick H out. H asked for one more chance. I was preg at the same time and recently had a miscarriage (last week). This is where it is for me right now. H has to prove to us he is worthy of our love. We spoke about this just this morning. It is hard for me right now since I feel I still need to be in plan B. The trust is not back yet. <P>Hope some of this info is helpful. You can read the Surviving an Affair and his needs/her needs. Both discuss this issue. <P>See if you can meet with Jennifer or Steve. They can even help you write your plan B letter or at least critique it for you.<P>Take Care,<BR>L.<P>