ohhhh Yummers! Thanks Chris ... I love Mexican.<P>Jo

LMAO alot!!!!!<P>OMG STL!!!!! I'm gonna pee my pants! Jeeeeez!<P>Jo

All:<P>Glad that the humor helped. Just my theory: when you lose your sense of humor you lose your sense of joy in the world. God has a sense of humor (look at nature and some of His creations) and we are mirrors of His creation.<P>The prevailing theory in this thread is that JAP is Cali's Princess in disguise.<P>I particularly like zorweb's comment on drive-by-postings (of course, I am biased, she is my W).<P>And the recipe, Chris, is a good one. I will dig through my files and post one as well. No reason pathetic people can't dine well.<P>Godspeed to all,<BR>STL

TO ALL PERSONS WRITING TO THIS COLOUMN<P>I give each and every one of you my personal<BR>support and feel that the lady who started this<BR>topic can also choose to be included or stand<BR>on the outside of the ring and keep on shouting<BR>and hollering, or join us in helping each other<BR>find a soloution to our mistakes and hurt we have<BR>caused our partners due perhaps to not knowing<BR>better in what to say or do in our marriages<BR>we so bravely entered and hoped at the day of<BR>our vows we exchanged to each other, that we<BR>would love till death do us part<P>To all of you, I say I support <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com" TARGET=_blank>www.marriagebuilders.com</A> and thank God for Dr Harley for opening his heart and mind and sharing with us his ways suggested to fix a marriage and keep it together<P>It has helped me in my marriage and also in my relationships with others around me including family-in-lay<P>It paid off invaluably and I cannot begin to find the words to thank and express my gratitude to the marriage builders team for all their hard work for putting this site together and all of you who log in regularly to see who you can help and perhaps sometimes we correct each other and protect each other with words that someone else can come along and read<P>Writer of the topic at the very top, I understand you are letting off steam<P>But if you try to fit in with us and plainly state your question and not push us away I am sure we can all help<P>You can help us and we can help you<P>That is why we are all here<P>Just like you<P>We are all a team helping each other<P>To push people away leaves you lonely<P>We bless you with blessings of God<P>You can push people away with words but<BR>you can never push the love of God away<P>God bless you and keep you in His love<P>I pray you will re-consider and forgive<BR>the person that made you so bitter who<BR>treated you badly and caused you to write<BR>such an article and most of us understand<P>We are here waiting for you to help us<BR>and we to help you<P>Hope to see you soon in a more<BR>open hearted having forgiven the one that hurt<BR>you, way<P>Carol

Hey .. "Just a Person's" profile says she has posted twice since July 1. Anyone find her second post????<P>Jo

thank you guys so much...i need your sense of humor and laughter right now. <P>after all the pain we are dealing with, it is great to think we can all get a huge laugh out of this.<P>i could use some great recipes for the romantic nites ahead. H loves italian and i love mexican. i will be sure to try the chicken torta montezuma. (did i spell that right?) if i didn't, feel free to bust on my spelling too, i won't take it to heart.<P>by the way, does anyone have a good recipe for humble pie?<BR>i think that might be a good recipe.....love bluegirl

Resilient:<P>The other post was a duplicate of this one on one of the other MB boards: I put a link there back to here.<P>It was a board that Cali posted to often, which furthers the JAP is Princess theory.<P>Bluegirl:<P>Humble pie is the preferred dessert for foot-in-mouth and crow. Gourmands state it is best served with red whine.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

Hey Resilient--her other post is in "just found out." Same exact post as this.<P>Don't you find it interesting that this post is the same date as my H moving out?<P>BTW--she especially loves cheesecake recipes. I made a Banana Split Cheesecake for a barbeque with both our families, and she kept talking about it.

Cali,<P>I'm so sorry, Hon. I must have missed it someplace that your H moved out. How are you doing? wait...hang on....now that you know OW comes here, perhaps it's not the place to disclose your feelings as yet. I'm sorry she (OW) has invaded your safe space.<P>I'm going to post to you in a bit, Cali. I have a mtg right now, but I will be posting. Stay strong, sweetie. <P>Love and prayers,<BR>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited July 02, 2001).]

Poor little "Just a Person" sounds like just another OW with sour grapes. Pfffttt.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Just a person:<BR><B>I You are cowards, who write into space rather than confront your own mistakes.<BR>I can take whatever you can give. No God Bless, I'm sorry or anything. <BR>E </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>If you have read hundreds of posts, you would have read a lot of soul-searching by betrayed spouses and a lot of discussion about the changes they have to make in themselves....most wayward spouses deflect any blame from themselves and onto marital problems or spouse. It is always 'you' did this to 'me.' I did have an "A" but I was miserable...do I have to stay miserable for ever? Don't I deserve a happy life? <P>Until recovery, wayward spouses do not confront or own their own issues....Confusion...Fog if you will is very thick.<P>And if you think we are such 'cowards' for writing into space, what does that make you...why did you use a <I>nom de plume </I>? What mistakes have you confronted? And, does confronting your mistakes mean you 'run away' from them? That you just cut your losses and move on? <P>I'm not surprised we didn't get a 'God Bless.' Only people who are talking with God and listening to God feel He has anything to do with our lives...<P><I> The words of a wise man's mouth are gracious, but the lips of a fool shall swallow him up. </I> <BR>ECCLESIASTES 10:12<P>God Bless and keep you, Just a Person<P>

Marriage Builders is not manipulation - it is not a means to manipulate, it is a plan to help. It is written by a man who has studied the institution of marriage and has a doctorate.<P>How can you say rotten things like you did to cut down the builder of this web site.<P>We are here to get support and rebuild our marriages - and yes, vent LB's so they are not passed to our spouses in anger - because we try to adhere to the principles of MB.<P>You are _______, I cannot say it. If you know the pain, you would be helping - not hindering.

I agree that response to this post really is a waste of time. Just a Person obviously didn't read anything on this site, jumped to conclusions, made many angry judgemental statements and was just plain mean. (A foggy day...in...)<BR>STL's reply was great! Let's leave it at that.<BR>

Wow! Lots of different reactions. Thanks for all of the spelling corrects. I never said I was a speller, just a writer. I also nver said I was an OW now. Lots of assuming on your parts, that's o.k. <BR>Many of you had some insightful things to say, some applied to me, nost did not. I apprecite those of you who replied with humor and real words, instead of just slams. Very Cool!<BR>I only quoted you, Cali, because I had been in a similiar situation, however choose not to carry out acts of destruction. I knew they would do nothing for saving my marriage. <BR>For the record, I am connected to no one on this board, and from what I've read - I consider that a plus!<BR>I have been left by husband, have 3 kids, career (skimpy as it may be sometimes) and a supportive family and friends. He had the affair, not me and we are ending our marriage. Yes, it's sad, and difficult, but I refuse to spin my wheels making him want me. He doesn't, I think we'll both be happier, and he's still a great father. <BR>I know it's not the "perfect family" but the key is to define a new family that gives peace and love to us all. My kids are happy because they see that we genuinely care for each other and are respectful to each other infront of them. It's easy when you realize that they are forming their ideas about people as they watch you live your life. <BR>Yes, I know, "Than why give up your marriage?" It's complicated and too much to go into now. I only know that I'm doing the right thing.<BR>Yes, I was mad, offended, and had anger. <BR>I find it amusing that most of you feel that I had obviously been the cheating one because of my anger. Very Interesting.<BR>Anyway, thanks for all of your responses. You burned up my computer.<BR>I am not a hit and run and will continue to post here. . .carefully. . .with caution. . .and truth. I still feel everthing I previously posted, and will continue to take care of myself first and make myself better through truth, love, and respect.<BR>Thanks<BR>E.<BR>P.S. I think I got all of my words right this time.<BR>

We are not assuming you are an OW, you ADMITTED in your first post that you have been an OW! Like I said, sounds like the typical OW logic to most here.

Just a Person:<P>Glad you responded! A healthy discussion can only occur if everyone participates.<P>Regarding the supposition here by many that you were the OW, the premise was drawn from your own words:<P>"I have been both W and OW and have never seen the truth in making soemone be in a marriage or relationship that they did not want to."<P>Darn ... the Just a Person is Princess theory was so tempting. Well, like many theories, we will have to shelve that one for now.<P>I am also glad to see that you are willing to keep posting: the hurt, anger and suffering are apparent in your words. One of the advantages of these boards is that it provides you a forum to explore those hurts, and to grow. Many here can share their insights on how they cope with similar feelings.<P>Hmm. Well, being connected to no one on this board is only a genetic plus, I suppose.<P>As far as people's reactions (using Cali as an example, since that is the one you cited), sometimes the purpose of this site is to just vent. Sometimes members here give in to human emotion and deviate from the MB philosophy. In that case, we help pick the member up, dust them off and hopefully get them pointed back in the right direction.<P>There are many good resources on this site: please, please read them.<P>And yes, your spelling was much better (omitted an "e" in never in the fourth sentence) ... but this is MarriageBuilders and not Mavis Beacon typing.<P>OK, so now I will take slight exception to one statement: you said "I never said I was a speller, just a writer." That is akin to someone saying "I am a carpenter, but don't know how to use the tools."<P>Looking forward to dialog that furthers your healing.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

Uhhhh hemm ... "Just Another Person", did you not write the below paragraph in your first post???? And now in our response you deny it??? <P>So ... ummmmm, which is the truth? <P><BR>"I have been both W and *OW* and have never seen the truth in making soemone be in a marriage or relationship that they did not want to. I have seen you all write about vows and commitments."<P>-Jo<P>

>>>I have been both W and OW and have never seen the truth in making soemone be in a marriage or relationship that they did not want to. >>><P>There are some women here who have been both OW and BW and are trying to rebuild. However, on most other boars the statement "I have been a BW and an OW" is usually the beginning of slamming the betrayed wife. It is then followed by somehting along the lines of "My husband didnt' love me and he left for the OW who he was madly in love with. They are now blissfully happy and I rebuilt a full and glorious life. I am now involved with a MM who is my soulmate and he loves more than life itself. Of course he doesn't love his wife. She should just let him go so we can all be happy." Blah blah. I dont' think anyone thought you were having the affair, we inferred from the statement "I have been W and OW" that you had been/are an OW.<P>>>On the other hand, you can't make someone feel some way they do not. Why would you fight for something that is not there?>><P>Lol. How come no one told that to my H's exOW after he decided he didn't really love her? Sometimes people think they feel a certain way and then some time goes by and they realize they feel completely differently. Feelings of being "in love" ebb and flow in a long relationship. Often when those feelings do come back they come back wiht much greater intensity than before. I wa snever as close to my husband as we are now.<P>>>I also nver said I was an OW now. Lots of assuming on your parts, that's o.k. >>><P>We made that assumption because when active, unrepentant OW post here they usually sound exactly like you.<P><BR><<< Yes, it's sad, and difficult, but I refuse to spin my wheels making him want me. He doesn't, I think we'll both be happier, and he's still a great father. <BR>I know it's not the "perfect family" but the key is to define a new family that gives peace and love to us all. My kids are happy because they see that we genuinely care for each other and are respectful to each other infront of them.>>><P>And that is your choice. I thank God every day that I didn't give up on my marraige and so does my husband. We built something completely new and wonderful from the wreckage of his affair. Now instead of 2 divorced parents trying to be "amicable' to each other my kids have an intact family and 2 parents who are in love, happy and in this for the long haul. W eboth realize what we almost lost and never want to be in that position again. If you dosn't want to save your marriage, then fine. That is your completely your choice, nothing wrong with that. But why try to discourage others who don't want what you want?<P> <BR><<I find it amusing that most of you feel that I had obviously been the cheating one because of my anger. Very Interesting.>><P>You didnt' sound at all like a cheater to me. You sounded exactly like an OW. You have every right to make your own decisions about your marriage as does everyone else here. And marriage builders will work for a lot of people, as it has for me. This site after all is dedicated mainly to the purpose of BUILDING marriages. It can work, and it can be better than you can imagine the second time around.

Hmmm . . . interesting. Feeling a lot of anger over your predicament today? I agree with SeeTheLight - we are here because WE DON'T WANT TO BE COWARDS. Believe me, as a wife who currently has her husband cheating on her, I've come to believe that separation and divorce would be the cowardly way out. It sure sounds easier to leave him and move on with my life than to try saving my marriage. Every day, on my "Plan A" I listen to my husband, try to undertand his feelings (even when they are about OW), and try to be the best wife I can be to him. IT'S NOT EASY! Many days I'd rather throw in the towel.<P>So what if we made mistakes marrying our spouses? It does'nt mean we should automatically divorce then and start over. Two wrongs don't make a right.<P>I think most people here would admit that there marriage problems are partially their fault as well. Not just their wayward spouse's fault. The reality is that when someone cheats on you, you face such a great deal of anger and grief at the initial shock of finding out, that you have a hard time thinking rationally about your own contribution to your marriage problems. Once that shock wears off and people decide to save their marriages, most do look at how both partners can change in order to make their marriage better. <P>I hope that you are able to use this site as a positive resource as you move through your relationship problems.<P>- WLE

WLE:<P>Bravo. Quitting ... no matter what in life you are quitting at ... is generally the coward's way out.<P>In a marriage, it may come to pass, after all other avenues have been exhausted, that one can honorably say, "I gave it my all." Until that time, our self-honor, sense of self-worth, and, yes, even our ego, demands that we give it our all.<P>However, I do not judge another's "all" against my own: as humans we all have different limits. Only you, JaP, can answer that question honestly to yourself.<P>Again, we look foward to hearing further from you,<BR>Godspeed,<BR>STL