Hi Just Another Person,<P>In your last response you said "I never said I was a speller, just a writer. I also nver said I was an OW *now*."<P>The operative word here being "NOW". So I have a theory, JaP. I'm thinking maybe, just maybe, you were an OW and you married the MM you were involved with. And now, unfortuntely, he is having an A and has left you. <P>Am I on track so far, JaP ..... ?<P>BTW: I am very sorry for your marital situation. I pray that your H will see his A is simply a temporary fantasy and come back to his family.<P>Best,<BR>Jo<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited July 02, 2001).]

Resilient:<P>The light just went on for me. Great logic!<P>Just a Person, is that the case? If so, you have come to the right place.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

Sorry for the mis-communication. I was an Ow am now a W. Nope, didn't marry the other guy. Not the answer to anything.<BR>Seen the light - thanks for the kind words. <BR>To the rest, I just have to keep doing what needs to be done.<BR>I'm glad so many of you were able to work your marriages into beter ones. I am not so lucky.<BR>E

Just a Person:<P>Luck has nothing to do with saving a marriage. If you can, get Dr. Harley's Surviving an Affair.<P>Is it truly too late? Or is it that you are angry, hurt and bitter. And your H is totally lost in the fog?<P>Those are not insurmountable obstacles here at MB. Again, I would recommend highly that you read the material. The Basic Concepts Page ( <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html</A> ) is a great place to start.<P>Unfortunately, not all marriages are salvagable. But before you so willingly toss yours onto the ever-mounting emotional scrap heap of marriages-failed, please read and explore. Even if you cannot salvage your current marriage, most of what you will learn here will benefit you now and in the future.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

JustaPerson,<P>Well, I am glad that got straighten out. If you have been hurt and want support, you are definitely welcomed here. Though I must admit that initial post of yours sure didn't sound like a cry for help. <P>You know going through the D does not always mean that the marriage can never recover. There is a divorcing/divorce site here with those in various stages of divorce. They are very supportive there also. <P>Just a bit of advice?!?!? Don't go in with both barrels loaded pointing at us. While you have the right to be frustrated and angry, it is only fair to give the right background. State that at the beginning of your post. It will help the readers know where you are coming from and avoid a lot of the misunderstandings. This is a pretty good bunch here. We all have scars and been through a lot. All in all, whether we can actually save our marriages or not, the basic concepts, books, counseling sessions and even posting here help make us better individuals which in turn make us better parents, spouses and friends. <P>I wish you well on your endeavors. <P>L.

Just a person,<P>Wow! Are you the same person who wrote the original post! <P>Okay, your husband had an affair and left. Sometimes it is better to end the marriage rather than try to stay & fix it. That being said, your children will be the losers. I’m not telling you to stay, just to think about the consequences of NOT trying.<P>However, that does not mean staying is right for everyone. Your situation is very typical (in that it happens to thousands of people every day) and very unique (in that it is happening to you right now.)<P>Want support? You got it!<P>Don’t want support? Chop us down, call us names & ridicule us for doing what we feel is right (and hurts no one from our actions.)<BR><P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Hi, Just a Person.<P>I can really see where you're coming from.<P>I sometimes wonder if I'm working on my marriage or delaying my divorce. But the reason I still work at it is that I don't want to feel like a quitter. There may come a time (in the not too distant future) when I say "ENOUGH!" and my marriage will be over. <P>But I got married "for better and for worse" so I figure I'd better try to work through the "worse" and not just give lip service to it.<P>If you believe in your heart that getting a divorce is the right thing to do, then by all means, Do it! The folks here who are holding on aren't in some type of martyrs' club; we just think that our marriages are worth saving. No low self esteem (most days!), just an honest desire to work on the marriages.<P>You're right that you don't see a lot of "Oh, I'm such a bad person" posts. But one thing that everyone has to confront is Harley's principle that a marriage wherein all emotional needs are met is not subject to an affair. That is, if my husband were completely happy he wouldn't have looked elsewhere. I failed in some ways to make him happy. I can change that. But whereas I may be partially responsible for his happiness, he is 100% responsible for his reaction. He could have done a lot of things instead of choosing the affair.<P>Of course, this principle does not take into consideration personality disorders meriting psychiatric counseling above and beyond marital therapy. If that situation is encountered, the spouse has to determine when he or she has waited long enough for the afflicted spouse to get it together.<P>I wish you all the best. Please don't lash out at the folks here. We have been through so much that it's hard to find a way to speak kindly to someone who slams us.<P>Blessings.<BR>HBC

JAP.....since you think that you know why everyone else posts to these boards.....what is your reason for being here?<P>Can you not agree to disagree without blasting people out of the water? Tsk, tsk.....whom is judging whom?????<P>------------------<BR><B>Time heals all wounds as long as you DON'T pick at them!</B>

I would like to address the idea of "manipulation"... <P>Manipulation very simply defined is using your hands to form, guide or move an object. In a less concrete sense, it is guiding or moving something the way you want it to go. Only when used in a NEGATIVE sense, is it conniving to get what you want out of a situation.<P>Think about it, folks - many of our interactions with other have an element of "manipulation" to them. When you want a job, you follow certain guidelines that have been shown to make your chances of getting the job better. You follow effective resume designs, you call to follow up when you send in your application, when you get an interview, you make sure that you have some facts about the company, you dress nicely, you bring your references ... you follow a PLAN so that your chances of getting that job are the best they can be.<P>Dr. Harley realized that direct attempts to change a spouse in an affair are fruitless and can even make things worse. A set of guidelines drawn from his experiences, successes and failures in his own marriage counseling practice became the Plans A and B.<P>There is nothing remotely BAD about the Plans. They are designed first and foremost with the salvation of the marriage and family in mind. <P>Plan A recognizes the fault of the BS in the disintigration of the relationship. It acknowledges that fault and it corrects it. And, it shows the WS that the correction of that fault is sincere - long term - not "just for today just to get you back"... It is consistent and strong - it is changing the BS into a better person forever. If the affair continues despite the changes made, then there is a next step... <P>Plan B continues with a written statement recognizing the fault of the BS in the deterioration of the marital relationship, expressing love and the desire for reconciliation ... and explains that continuing contact with the WS is painful and difficult. Separation or no contact with the WS will hopefully give him or her the opportunity to truly feel what life without the BS is like. This is actually the least manipulative of the two plans - how can one manipulate another if there is no contact between them? The truth is, Plan B banks on the foundation that the previously completed Plan A has built: Caring, consistency and compromise.<P>So ... in the sense that we are trying to influence the outcome of a situation in which we are not the only participants, yes, the plans are somewhat manipulative - but not in any kind of negative sense. We are not sneaking, lying and conniving to manipulate. And therein is the difference between what we are truly doing and what JaP is accusing us of.<P>IMNSHO... of course.<P>Respectfully submitted,<BR><P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

You guys are all tooooo good! Glad I'm on the same team.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by k9love:<BR><B>You guys are all tooooo good! Glad I'm on the same team. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well said, K! Ditto from me a hundred times over!<P>Now, then...I had this neat reply all set to post here last night, and couldn't send it. Now I know why! The board was alive with others trying to post and now I'm happy mine didn't come through. STL, yours cracked me up! Thanks for the laughter! Jo, the recipe sounds yummy. All of the others, I have to stand in line beside you and say "AMEN!" <P>I, too, came up with the conclusion that JaP was another person who is inflammatory and an OW and who posts here. Her initials here are HF--I haven't come across any posts yet by Princess, so who knows?? Maybe all 3 are the same person? <P>I just have one comment to add now: I really take offense at this person's claim to be a writer. Being a writer myself with an entire 30+ page website of my own, it is an affront to authors everywhere to see such terrible writing. Perhaps, JaP, you are really an aspiring writer, in which case, you need to do some hard work to perfect your desired craft. Trust me--You don't have moment to lose!<P>Sorry for sounding catty, but as you profess, JaP, I call 'em as I see 'em, too. Thanks for posting again and sounding a tad more human. <P>Good luck..<BR>Winny<P>

Well Justa ---<P>I guess you need to join up with us over on the Divorce forum.<P>If it's going amicably, good for you! Many of us aren't so lucky. And there are a fair number of us who are here because we *don't* want a divorce, but are powerless to stop it; and are frustrated, depressed, etc. as a result.<P>My stxbH had an affair with a married woman before I ever met him....and he didn't tell me about it until well after we married.<P>I did have an affair, with his permission, and we went on to reconcile and have a daughter.<P>Now he's the one off having the affair. He left without warning or any signals that I could really discern (which was fairly easy to do considering the Depression that I was in). We've been separated for nearly a year. And we're working slowly towards our divorce. (We're in Houston and the Family Court building is still closed -- structural damage in the basement from the recent flooding. We don't really know when this will be over now. All cases are on hold.)<P>It's been really difficult. Total refusal on his part to work on our marriage at all. His family are the one's who came through and got me the medical help that I needed for my depression....not him. <P>He's been very rude to me. He hasn't followed our temporary court orders on basic things like visitation. He won't communicate with me on basic things....like issues concerning our daughter and my concern for her well-being when she's in his care.<P>The OW tried to get me fired at work, and probably prevented me from getting interviews for several positions that would have been promotions for me.<P>I've been forced to fall back to the written orders and my attorney on several occasions to get him to do things properly.<P>It's all been a battle. A costly battle, in terms of both emotions and money. <P>And it all could have been so different......<P>~Amy

Just a Person,<P>So we now find out that you have been lying to us, you are Cali's husband's other woman. <P>Your husband is on here now as "Just a Person Too" harassing Cali.<P>Now who should be ashamed of themselves?<P>How dare you invade the one, private corner of her life that you have not already helped to distroy. You are proving yourself to be a very vile individual.<P>To quote your husband "So shoo" and let Cali heal from the pain you helped cause her.<P>Z<P>staring with<BR>wide open eyes<BR>at the inhumanity<BR>humans heap upon<BR>each other<BR>in the name of<BR>"love"<BR>vile love<BR>that tares<BR>her heart<BR>from her chest<BR>while still<BR>beating<BR>still wanting<BR>to love<BR>look<BR>the blood <BR>is on your hands<BR><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

copied from JAP2's post<P>I just want to say that Besides the fact that OP disrespect us enough to have affairs with our spouses, it really Fuct up that these OP have the BALLS to post here to US.<BR>If u feel the need to get HELP on this site least have the courtesy to not talk to us. We dont come here for your input<BR>and we dont really want to hear what you have to say anyhow<BR>as far as OP spouses..... i commend you for defending your WS reguardless if its true or not<P>OP do a favor for yourselves and get over it GET A LIFE and post to someone who wants to hear your woes not someone whos marriage you got involved in

JaP<P>Is not your posting here manipulation? Is not tuff love manipulation? Is not every change in human behavior manipulation of events, strategies, thoughts and processes in order to change ones directions or actions? You seem to sit on a seat from *above* and cast down aspersions unto the very same people you have hurt with your insensitive acts? Was your A not a manipulation of anothers marriage and life in order to change yours?<P>You cannot speak of one without realizing the other. You are what you accuse, and to do it in disguise? Another manipulation?<P>Trueheart

Zorweb -<BR>How do you always figure this stuff out????????<BR>I guess I would too, if I could stay on these forums 24/7. Is this Just a Person, and Just a Person too, attached by the OW / OWH relationship???????? If so, where to go for the posts of Just a Person too. Thanks.

after shock<P>There was this post<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/010250.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/010250.html</A> <P>And then there was this one<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/010250.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/010250.html</A> <P>Then there as this one from Cali.<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/010273.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/010273.html</A> <P><BR>Wish I could say that I have some special sluthing power, but no just read the posts. And SeenTheLight (my hubby) was on all day (again for work.. lol) so he filled me in on what I missed.<P>Am I on 24/7? Probably looks like that. I work on the computer all day. So I keep a web window open. For research and for entertainment. During the period of dealing with my H's affairs, the MB window has been open a lot because it helped me find my sanity.<P><BR>z<BR>