HI. I AM NEW HERE. I AM ANOTHER LURKER WHO HAS BEEN NOSING AROUND FOR A FEW WEEKS WAITING TO SEE IF I REALLY WANT TO SHARE MY FEELINGS WITH EVERYONE. SOMETIMES I THINK IT MAKES ME FEEL LIKE I AM A WEAK PERSON.<P>FIRST OF ALL, I AM A MALE OF 35 YRS. IT IS VERY HARD TO TALK ABOUT, I GUESS, BECAUSE I AM A MAN AND MEN DON'T LIKE TO TALK. MY WIFE AND I HAVE TWO KIDS 4 AND 5. I THOUGHT WE WERE HAPPY, I TRIED TO MAKE HER THAT WAY. BUT A MONTH AGO, I FOUND OUT THAT SHE WAS NOT. SHE WAS HAVING AN AFFAIR WITH SOMEONE SHE HAD MET ON THE INTERNET. IT JUST HAPPENED, SHE SAID. SHE WENT TO A CHAT ROOM AND WAS JUST CASUALLY CHATTING WITH A MAN SHE FOUND OUT LIVED VERY CLOSE TO US.(SAME CITY)<BR>SHE SAID IT JUST HAPPENED ONCE, BUT SHE HAS BEEN EMOTIONALLY ATTACHED TO HIM FOR ABOUT A YEAR. THE SEX THING WAS JUST ONCE SHE SAID.<BR>SHE SAYS SHE IS SORRY AND REGRETS HAVING THE SEXUAL AFFAIR.<BR>SHE SAYS SHE WAS NOT GETTING ENOUGH LOVE AND AFFECTION FROM ME. I TOLD HER I FELT THE SAME AT TIMES, BUT DID NOT GO LOOKING FOR SOMEONE ELSE. SHE SAID IT JUST HAPPENED. SHE SAID ONE DAY SHE JUST REALIZED THAT THIS MAN COULD GIVE HER MORE COMPANIONSHIP AND ATTENTION THAN I DID. I TOLD HER I WAS SORRY AND WOULD DO ANYTHING TO GET OUR MARRIAGE BACK. I WOULD GO TO COUNSELING, AND I NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD EVER SAY THAT. I USED TO BELIEVE THAT COUNSELING WAS FOR DISTURBED PEOPLE. I HAVE COME TO LEARN THAT ANYONE CAN BECOME DISTURBED AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT.<BR>MY WIFE SAID OKAY TO THE COUNSELING AND SAID SHE WOULD CUT TIES WITH THIS MAN. I AM TRYING TO BELIEVE HER, BUT I AM VERY SCARED. ANOTHER THING I HATE TO ADMIT.<BR>SHE DID TELL ME THAT SHE HAS A LOT OF OTHER MALE FRIENDS THAT SHE TALKS TO EVERYDAY ON THE PHONE OR THE INTERNET.<BR>THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN A DISCOURAGING THING TO ME.<BR>SHE DOES NOT GET ALONG WELL WITH OTHER FEMALES. SHE ONLY GETS ALONG WITH MALES. I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS BECAUSE SHE NEEDS A MANS ATTENTION OR IF IT IS BECAUSE SHE JUST DOES NOT GET ALONG WITH FEMALES AND FINDS THEM AS A RIVAL.<BR>I HAVE TOLD HER THIS BOTHERS ME AND I GUESS WE HAD A LITTLE BIT OF A TRUST ISSUE. SHE SAID SHE WOULDN'T CARE IF I WENT OUT WITH ALL WOMEN, BUT I THINK IT WOULD.<BR>I MARRIED HER WITH FULL BELIEF THAT OUR PLAYING DAYS WERE THROUGH, AT LEAST WITH MEMBERS OF THE OPPOSITE SEX. I GAVE THIS UP FREELY AND WILLINGLY BECAUSE I WANTED TO HAVE FUN WITH HER. I DO NOT THINK OF NOT GOING OUT WITH OTHER WOMEN A BURDEN OR HER CONTROLLING ME. I AM HAPPY TO DO IT. I THOUGHT IT WAS A NATURAL PART OF MARRIAGE TO STOP GOING TO DINNERS AND DATE TYPE STUFF WITH OTHER MEN. SHE HAS ON OCCASION GONE OVER TO OTHER MEN'S HOUSES, AND I FOUND OUT LATER, SO A TRUST ISSUE CAME UP. I DIDN'T KNOW THESE PEOPLE, THESE WERE PEOPLE SHE MET AT WORK. SHE SAYS SOME OF THEM ARE MARRIED, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT MEANS MUCH ANYMORE, AFTER READING ALL OF THE LETTERS HERE.<P>I USED TO RECEIVE CALLS FROM AROUND THE STATE AND COUNTRY, EVEN SOME I THINK WERE OUT OF THE COUNTRY. I AM NOT SURE THOUGH. THEY WOULD ALWAYS SAY WRONG NUMBER, BUT THEY WOULD CALL BACK EVERY FEW DAYS.<P>NOW, I FOUND THIS CHAT ROOM THAT MY WIFE HAS BEEN GOING TO AND THIS MAN SHE HAS BEEN TALKING TO FOR A YEAR. SHE SAYS IT IS INNOCENT AND NOTHING HAS OR WILL COME OF IT BUT SHE SAYS SHE IS UNWILLING TO GIVE UP THIS MAN OR ALL OF HER OTHER MALE FRIENDS. SHE SAID SHE HAD GIVEN UP PLENTY OF FRIENDS(ALL OF WHOM WERE MALE) AND SHE WILL NEVER DO IT AGAIN BECAUSE THAT MAKES ME CONTROLLING AND BELITTLING TO HER. SHE SAYS I SHOULD TRUST HER NOW AND ALWAYS SHOULD HAVE OR ELSE SHE WOULD NOT HAVE HAD THE AFFAIR. I DON'T KNOW IF SHE THOUGHT HAVING THE AFFAIR WOULD MAKE ME GAIN TRUST? I DO NOT UNDERSTAND THIS REASONING. IF ANYONE DOES, PLEASE HELP.<P>WHAT I FIRST WANT TO KNOW IS, IS IT NORMAL FOR WOMEN TO ONLY HAVE AND WANT MALE FRIENDS? SHOULD I BE VERY SUSPICIOUS OF THIS BEHAVIOR AND SHOULD SHE BE WILLING TO GIVE THEM UP? OR AM I CONTROLLING? SHOULD SHE GIVE UP INTERNET TIME AND PHONE TIME WITH THESE OTHER MEN? <P>SHOULD SHE CUT CONTACT WITH THIS ONE "TRUE" MALE FRIEND, SHE SAYS IT IS COMPLETELY INNOCENT, BUT I DON'T THINK I BELIEVE THAT. THIS IS NOT THE MAN SHE HAD THE AFFAIR WITH.<P>SHOULD SHE TRY TO FIND FEMALE FRIENDS? I REALLY HAVE NEVER SEEN A HUSBAND WILLING TO LET HIS WIFE GO OUT WITH OTHER MEN NO MATTER HOW INNOCENT IT WAS. IF I LOOK AT GIVING THESE THINGS UP AS A PART OF MARRIAGE, AND NOT FEEL DISPLACED OR ANGRY ABOUT IT, BUT HAPPY TO DO IT, IS THAT NORMAL? I REALLY THOUGHT THE DATING OTHER PEOPLE DAYS WERE OVER. I WOULD NEVER GO TO ANOTHER WOMANS HOUSE WITHOUT MY WIFE. I THINK IT IS HIGHLY INAPPROPIATE. ESPECIALLY WHEN I KNOW NOTHING OF THESE PEOPLE SHE IS HANGING AROUND.<BR>WHY CAN'T SHE JUST LOVE AND I BE ENOUGH COMPANIONSHIP FOR HER? I HAVE TO SAY I HAVE NEVER REALLY CRIED UNTIL THE DAY I FOUND OUT ABOUT THE AFFAIR. I DON'T THNK I AM A TYPICAL MALE, I WAS JUST NEVER AROUND PEOPLE WHO CRIED.<P>I REALLY NEED ANSWERS SO I KNOW IF THE AFFAIR IS MY FAULT AND IF I SHOULD LAY OFF THE OPPOSITE SEX FRIENDSHIP CASE.<BR>MAYBE OTHERS DO THIS, BUT I HAVE NEVER MET ANY. I FIND IT STRANGE. ALL OF MY FRIENDS ARE MALES, THE ONLY OTHER WOMEN I TALK TO ARE ONES AT WORK AND THE WIVES OR GIRLFRIENDS OF MY MALE FRIENDS WHO HAPPEN TO ANSWER THE PHONE WHEN I CALL.<P>PLEASE HELP TO EXPLAIN SOME OF THIS ODD BEHAVIOR, WHETHER IT BE MY BEHAVIOR OR HERS.<P>THANK YOU. <BR>CROUTON(THIS IS A NAME WE CALL OUR KIDS SOMETIMES SO I THOUGHT I WOULD STEAL IT, BECAUSE I HAVE NEVER MADE UP AN INTERNET NAME.)

crouton,<P>Hi, and welcome to MB!<P>First off, I'd like to ask you a favor. Turn off the caps lock key. All caps in email or on a bulletin board means you are shouting. I don't think you meant that, but most people on these boards can't help but read it that way (myself included) <P>I've got to make this kind of brief, but read all the articles you can at this site. I think you'll find that these internet relationships, if they turn into affairs are just as dangerous to your marriage as the ones that take place off the internet.<P>As for the male friend thing, I had the same experience with my wife and it bothered me too. I believe that there are women who crave male attention. In my case, I was unable to get my W to tell me what here emotional needs were, and so I was stumbling around in the dark. I think EN's are the key to helping a woman like this focus on their spouse and not other men, but in my case I did not and do not know how to make that happen. It sounds like your wife may be more open to talking to you. Read Give and Take by Harley, and read it with your wife. I think this will help you.<P>Take care and best of luck to you,<P>Ish

sorry, ignore<p>[This message has been edited by Ishmael (edited July 02, 2001).]

crouton:<P>Welcome to MB. There is a ton of information here to help you and your wife get your marriage back on track.<P>Fundamentally, it boils down to this: any behavior, emotional or sexual, that takes energy out of the marriage constitutes an affair.<P>I, too, got hooked on the Internet, etc. To make a long story short: it is not "harmless."<P>Counseling is for anyone who has life issues that they cannot handle based on their life's experience or emotional state.<P>This site is a resource for you and your wife, to explore, exhange ideas and thoughts, and to seek support.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

The behavior of your wife is totally unacceptable. You do not have a marriage if your wife wishes to conduct herself as if she was a single woman. The fact that she has a sexual affair (she claims once buy why would you believe anything she says) and goes over to other men's homes and is constantly talking to other men is ridiculous for you to put <BR>up with. What a joke that she says she wants you to trust her while she continues this behavior after being sexually intimate with a chat buddy. It is absurd her comment that you are controlling because you do not wish to have her spend all of her time communicating and going over to other men's home.<BR>My friend if she will not change her behavior and refuses to go into counseling then you really do not have a marriage.<BR>The question you will need to ask is how much are you willing to accept this disrespectful, cruel and hurtful behavior by your wife. You may need to think what you want in your future which may not included your wife. Most men would never tolerate this behavior. I think you deserve better because this is not what a marriage is all about. <BR>Don't let her destroy your self-esteem. She is a cheater and <BR>clearly is not making an effort to make you feel secure.<BR>If she refuses to get help and change her behavior then you should seek out an attorney and see what your options are.<BR>Good Luck

It's normal a woman wants to just have male friends. Some women don't like other women because of jealosy or other reasons. However this is the behaviour of an unmarried woman. Your wife still wants this lifestyle. She already had an affair so it is hard to trust her. My wife also likes males only to talk to and also had an affair but she reralizes that the talking only to men is wrong that she is married now (still has te urge). And yes it is very hard to trust a spouse that just had an affair. I think you need some stronger action instead of getting used. How can she love you when she does that?

crouton:<P><BR>Interesting choice of name:....does this mean you're "in the soup?".<BR>Me too, TURN OFF THE CAPS PLEASE?<P>Male friends that you do not know, is a huge problem, esp. if there are trust issues since PA.<BR>PLAN B, OK? Go and date, and tell her it's OK for you. Call her bluff. She'll do an about turn, ( which is what you want, right?), or carry on regardless, which means you can consult an attorney, as BryanP suggests.<P>This is as uncomplicated as I can make it. Try to be tough, it's the only thing that works. The more you make excuses for her, the more damage you will do to your own self-worth, and the worse you will feel all - round. You may even come to despise your W for this. Take care of yourself, and ignore her goings on. Act indifferent, as if you don't give a hoot what she does...just go and do the same. ( you don't have to have a PA ), just date.<P>If this doesn't serve to bring her around, nothing will, my friend. By that time, ( if it comes ) you will have a social life, and most of your pride intact. I've been there. Save yourself some grief, and learn from others' mistakes.<P>Much strength<BR>muzohead

crouton:<P>Some good things here for you to think on. But I would say ixnay to going out and dating. Huge, huge lovebuster. Unless, of course, it is your goal to end up divorced.<P>Read the material here, incorporate it into a good, solid Plan A and see what happens.<P>Click on the "Concepts" link at the top of the page, there you will find the rudiments of what MB is all about.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

Well, I personally believe that ALL affairs start with talking. And soon you cross the line and start telling things you haven't told your spouse. And the other person is ALWAYS a better listener because they have absolutely nothing to lose with you. <P>My H's affair with my best friend started out as just talking, working together, etc. I found out the truth about it just last week and have been numb inside. All the lies and deception is almost more than I can bear.<P>She always dressed extra nice for him at work, acted like he was sooo important, etc. Real nice best friend.<P>So anyway, having friends of the opposite sex is okay. I have 2 close male friends. But I never send them email out of an account that my H doesn't see. He knows when I see them and why. I know I'd be crossing a dangerous line if it went any further than that.<P>Good luck.

Dear Crouton,<BR>I am older than you, married, and have mostly male friends. Part of the reason is that I work graveyard with no women coworkers around to gravitate toward. 5 guy friends are married, one is divorced, and one is single. All of them are coworkers, except for the single one who is a neighbor. 1 is recovering from an affair (still loves the OW), 1 has had an affair (gave his wife a STD) and the other married one is currently involved in an longstanding affair. Only 2 out of the 5 who are married are solely devoted to their wives--1 has been married for 12 years and the other one has been married for over 25 years. The divorced one also had an affair while he was married. The single one is 60 and never married. We talk about our lives, our relationships, exchange recipes and e-mails, I go out to lunch with one & take turns treating, work out at the gym with another, etc. I ask them all a ton of questions as if I was talking to one of my girlfriends and they seem to open up to me? My husband has met 5 of them and knows all of them by name through our conversations. I also have female friends--five whom I consider close but I don't talk to them as regularly as I do my coworkers.<P>I don't believe you are wrong AT ALL to feel the way you do in your relationship. If your wife understands how much her behavior is hurting you and yet she refuses to make adjustments, then I see how that can be a problem for you. You cannot control her.<P>I once heard someone say that if we don't meet our spouse's needs, then we are just begging someone else to. Perhaps looking back, there are some things we could all have done differently, but the only thing to do with the past is to forget about it because we can't change it. We all could do better and we all should do better. It sounds like you are trying to do better by seeking counseling and I think that is great! Don't give up on yourself!<P>One time, my husband questioned my male friendships. He sounded irritated that I had "all these friendships with MEN!" So, I listed each of my male friends' names on a sheet of paper and one by one, I read off the names and asked him whether he wanted me to get rid of them. As I read each name off, I asked him, "Do you want me to get rid of so-and-so?" Each time, he answered "NO." <P>I couldn't really explain to my husband why I have these people for my pals but I guess the fact that I was willing to get rid of them for him, helped him to feel more comfortable? I do have female friends too, but because of my lifestyle, it's "normal" that I run across more males than females.<P>I don't believe I could get anything from ANY of my friends that I can't get from my husband--companionship, conversation, affection, affirmation, sexual fulfillment (of course)... I don't agree with going over anyone's house alone, or riding in anyone's car, but I have met for lunch with my husband's permission. I make it a point to let people know how much in love I am with my husband and how open our communication is--in other words, he knows and approves of said lunches.<P>The bottom line is that if your wife knows she is hurting you because you have clearly expressed your feelings to her, and yet she continues to hurt you, that's not good. Since you cannot control her, then you must take responsibility for yourself and get a grip on your insecurities until/if she changes. If she never changes, but YOU change, perhaps you can reach the place where her stupidity won't bother you, and God can intervene and reach her. It's useless to bang our heads against a brick wall trying to convince someone of something only God can convince them of (THEIR BAD BEHAVIOR)...<P>In any case, my heart goes out to you. I just wanted to speak for my married female self having mostly male friends who are good friends to me, and who love their wives OR not. I learn something from all my friendships, probably because I'm at a point in my life where nothing shocks me anymore.<P>Keep the faith! Be strong in the Lord because His strength is made perfect in our weakness. HE is faithful! He watches over his Word to perform it. He rescues us however many times we need rescuing. You're going to make it!