I'm another 1st time poster, couple month lurker. D-Day was about 10 weeks ago. Made appt. with Steve for tomorrow afternoon, but I may blow-up tonite - need thoughts! I've Plan A'd and been pretty comfortable with being the W of old and H has been the H of old. We have been doing well as a couple and a family - other than my triggers that I try to squash. By checking H's cell phone calls, OW is still calling him even tho' he says "it's over" and that the contact is over (up until a couple of weeks ago, he would only say he's trying to end the contact). H does not call OW, but does take the calls (20 min!!). I don't want to mess-up with a big LB (snooping, not 100% sure it's OW # - don't even know her name), but I feel like I'm going to pop! I'm trying to push it aside, but the sadness will show thru tonite and I may say what the heck and throw down my circumstantial evidence. Any words of wisdom?

WT,<P>First of all, don't feel bad that you are snooping. Just be prepared for what you find, and if it validates what you are feeling, that contact is indeed ongoing, then your Plan A needs to be stronger. That letter needs to be drafted, with your approval, and the two of you need to send it together. I hate to say it, but the fact that the *old* W and H are comfortable, only means H is better at getting away with things and covering them up. You dont have to take that!<P>Your suspicions have proven to be true, so time to lock down the limits!! Make him accountable for his whereabouts, his time, his phone calls, emails...and if he has nothing to fear or hide, he will be willing to give you any information you need to *prove* his trustworthiness. I don't blame you for wanting to blow, just make sure you have taken every opportunity for Plan A to work. It sounds as if you have given him loopholes to exit through. Close them so he has no recourses but to be honest. You may want to read the section on the Agreement of Radical Honesty in this site, that will help to understand how to regain that trust. I wish you the best of luck with your session!!<P>*Out of our greatest fears, come our bravest deeds!*<P>Trueheart

Wearing thin,<P>I'm on the other side of the fence from where you are. I am the WS and Newme2001 is my wife. <P>Our circumstances are a little different but the feelings are the same. <P>You can get from the phone company a detailed listing of his calls. Snooping yes.. but deserved? your call. NM was worried about me having a PA and using my cell as the contact point. My sin was pornography and cybersex. She asked for me to get the listing and let her go thru it. I did.. 12 months worth! You can get the listings and see what numbers are what... call and verify.. once your comfortable then you can spot check.<P>As for contact... I didn't have any qualms about never emailing or IM'ing with the OW. She supposed had many cybersex dealings. Put the foot down. Tell him no more period. It is always easy to make excuses. If he tells her that he will have a restraining order placed if she continues to call... just a thought.<P>This board is a good one. I've found out things about me that I was feeling but couldn't explain.. Keep coming back. <P>Good luck and GB.<BR>Phantom

Yes! If you've lasted weeks and made it, please don't lose it the night before you talk to Steve. He can make sense of this all very well. I strongly advise you to do everything you can to hold off reacting, and get that call in with Steve.<P>That is about all I can say. Give the call a chance, and go from there.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Rick37 (edited July 02, 2001).]

wt:<P>Remember the rule of radical honesty: there is no concept of privacy in a marriage; it is a totally open joint venture. So you are not snooping, you are ascertaining information to which you have every right.<P>Your call to Steve tomorrow will be a great way to get a leg up on all of this.<P>So refrain from love busting tonight. Wait to respond appropriately after your consult with Steve. Keeping the information to yourself one more day won't hurt in the larger scheme of things. Letting it out of the bag in a hurtful way, however, could do a lot of damage that will cause needless fence-mending.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

Thanks for your replies - I held it together and after checking his phone for calls, did not see the suspected # on it. I have detailed cell phone records and can tell when the # was called and when the # called. My gut tells me H is trying to end the calls, but is weak. It looks like all calls are initiated by OW. He has just gotten a new phone & hopefully OW doesn't have his # (I don't have access to records, only phone). H is coming home on time or early, available on his phone, being a great dad to the kids, being attentive and supportive. We are not great communicators of feelings and H will not tell me details (not sure if I want to know anyway). H will say he is happy now and things are going good and that we're going to make it. H has told a friend of ours that things are going great and that he was stupid and realizes what he has. We are doing things w/out (and w/)the kids which we haven't done in years and we are making plans for the near and long term. So deep down I don't believe that H is going anywhere. I'm looking forward to talking w/Steve and getting his perspective. From all I've read it takes a little while for all contact to end, and by all other indications he's w/me. H has said he's ended it and I have told him it is difficult to trust, but that I will have to trust what he says at this point. I don't want to tip my snooping hand, and I almost want to stop looking at the phone and just read how H acts. If I see a change in behavior, then I will deal with it. Seem reasonable?

wt:<P>Have you discussed a no contact letter with your husband? It is an important part of the process and one that you should address.<P>Glad, however, that the rest of your marriage is looking up. Stick to EN fulfillment and meeting the four rules: honesty, time, caring and protection, and it is a solid plan.<P>By the way, if you are totally implementing the rule of honesty, he won't mind showing you the cellphone bill, you having access to his email accounts, etc. If the computer is a means of contact, consider monitoring software. I did those things and it went a long, long way toward meeting zorweb's (my BS) need for honesty.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

Luckily H doesn't use email - I have monitoring software on the computer anyway. Since he says he has "ended it" I'm not sure how to bring up the no contact discussion again. He doesn't have access to the new phone bills (co. phone) to show me and he could easily erase any #s off the phone before showing it to me, so I'm thinking my asking for access could be a small LB - if I want to continue snooping, he won't know! I have seen some great no contact letters and have printed off one that I would like him to read. I'm trying to figure out when a positive opportunity might be and show it to him as "something I hope he feels." (regret, let family and W down, move on, etc.). As positive as it's been lately I'm unsure how to bring it up w/out H getting defensive or thinking more about OW & A.

wt:<P>My W expressed her emotional need for me to do the no-contact letter (in addition to it being an important piece in the MB approach). Because meeting her needs is part of our MB implementation, it was done (took me a while, but I got it done).<P>The result? It fulfilled her EN and got rid of a problem area ... ka-ching go the love units being deposited.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

Thanks stl - why did it take you awhile to write the letter? Just curious - every situation is different (altho, it sure seems like alot are the same by what I've been reading!!).

wt:<P>A good question. Ultimately, it came down to how I was going to craft the words: the precise tone to set; to leave no ambiguity; to preclude any sense of continuance while expressing regret.<P>To me, words matter. Their flavor, their craft: all must be perfect for a purpose like that. I must have revised the letters a thousand times. If zorweb had not put a gentle foot up my backside, I would be dabbling still.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL