I have been reading and posting (a lot). This is therapeutic for me. Don't start charging me now .<P>I have noticed that we (BS) tend to hang on every word our WS's say. Sometimes we tend to overlook what they are doing in an effort to find something 'good' to hold onto. This often leads to disappointment. <P>I am guilty of that. I confess. Here is what I learned to help break that habit and reduce the hurt I was ultimately giving myself by listening more than watching.<P>When H would say anything, before I 'assumed' I knew what he meant, I began to ask Why/what/how? H would say he needed to move to be happy. I asked what he meant by being happy? Then H said even though he lived away from us, he still cared for his family. I asked how did he show it? <BR>H said OW made him feel good. I asked what did 'feel good' mean? H said he and OW had so much in common. I asked what are those things? <P>See the pattern? I could no longer assume he meant what I or any normal person would mean. Hm..... <P>See H could not really answer those questions. He would just arbitrarily make those statements sometimes just to get a rise out of me. Oh, when I stopped giving him a reaction and asked for an explanation, it started to sink in that those statements were made without much thought and no substance. Oh, an A that floats. No tie that binds. At least nothing with substance. Just a lot of hot air (talk) and fluff (sex stuff). <P>What are your thoughts?<P>L.

Orchid:<P>Therein lies the danger to BSs: if you accept the words of a WS at face value, you will be engulfed with smog.<P>What logic goes on in the fog, defies logic from those without. Unless you are adept at fogese, the smoke the WS blows in their fog will engulf the BS in smog.<P>Smog, of course, cuts off oxygen to the brain, and one risks having their brain damaged.<P>Remember, Plan A is your smog filter. Use it liberally.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

Good stuff! Ya'll are great!<P>------------------<BR>Faith1

Hi Orchid:<P>I agree with you...and did you ever notice that they use these off the wall statements to serve as conversation stoppers....effective because they are usually hurtful.<BR>But you're right...we take them at face value and never question whether there is any rationale behind them.<BR>My WS use to say things I know came right from OW's mouth through his ears and out his mouth...without his brain even processing them....he wanted so much to believe in his fantasy.<P>Now he's carefully walking the line....I really sometimes feel sorry for him because he really can't say much of anything without putting his foot in his mouth...in a way he's paying for all the thoughtless things he's said in the last few years....because now he cannot say anything without my questioning whether it has double meanings or not or whether he really means it. Cried "WOLF" too often. <P>This would be a good practice for me...give me some exercise in delving into his statements a little more throughly...the whys and wherefores and hows might help to rebuild a little trust by helping to break down the protective shell of distrust I've built up. I really want to believe again....but it's just so hard.<P>Faye

buffy, et al.:<P>I have used this analogy before: the wayward spouse must win back trust one bloody inch at a time. Just like the Marines on Iwo Jima in WWII ... inch by bloody inch. The reward, of course, is hoisting the flag when the goal is reached.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

STL:<P>I know you're right...and I do admire him for continuing to try in the face of the fact that this is very difficult for him...and he does...again and again...comes back for more...and that in a way is reassuring to me.<P>Faye

buffy:<P>If that is the case, tell him so. One strives harder when one gets positive encouragement for their actions.<P>zorweb articulated her happiness when I endeavored in this department. It served as a goad to achieve higher goals. Eventually Mt. Shuribashi is scaled and up the flag goes.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

STL:<P>Thanks, I will...to tell the truth I just realized that as I was writing it...how much courage and love that expresses in itself...how much easier simply not to try.<P>Faye

Orchid, I totally agree. My H would say things like that and when I question it, he says "I don't know", "I can't explain it", "it just is", or my favorite is when he tries to cover it up with an even MORE unbelievable statement....

Orchid:<P>Sorry for taking over your thread. Do STL and I owe you anything....Will a {{{{{Orchid}}}}}} do for a start?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B><BR>I am guilty of that. I confess. Here is what I learned to help break that habit and reduce the hurt I was ultimately giving myself by listening more than watching.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>Hey, I was wondering what you meant by "listening more than watching"....are you talking about actions rather than words....that you are learning to see what he does being more important then what he says? In a positive or negative light? <P>This is important to me because I have problems dealing with actions as opposed to words and the interpretation of the actions based on my own perspective and how damaging that can be.<BR> <P>Faye <P><p>[This message has been edited by buffy (edited July 03, 2001).]

Perhaps the proper way to interpret what a WS in the fog says is to repeat to yourself (IN YOUR MIND ONLY - to avoid LBing).<P>WARNING: WS statements approved for amusement purposes only.<P> -- Jeffers<BR>

Thanks for all your replies. They were thought provoking. <P>Buffy,<P>"I was ultimately giving myself by listening more than watching."<P>You asked why I made this comment? Because when I listened and reacted to H's words instead of watching his actions, I often got slammed. H would accuse me of misunderstanding him. At the same time, my 6 year old would say: "You don't know mom". When I did not do what he wanted. <P>Then one day BINGO!!! I got it. My H & 6 year old were on the same wave length. Both said I didn't know when what they meant was that I would not do what they wanted. H wanted me to let him go in his words but his actions (continuously coming over and intruding in on my life for piddly reasons) while I was in plan B, meant don't let me go but I don't know what I want to do. More fogese logic. <P>Since it is virtually impossible (at least for me) to deal with fogese (I have a hard time comprehending other languages - H is pretty adept at learning other languages), I should have and finally later in plan B, learned to watch his actions more. This finally gave me more peace of mind, a few laughs and a calmer heart. <P>Still when I see H revert to fogese (he still speaks it some), I have to watch. It is so sad but necessary for my santity. Is any of this making sense?<P>We had a very hard night last night. H babbled in fogese while going to sleep. This kept me up most of the night and now I feel the need to separate. Even watching has it's limits. Will post more about that later. <P>L.<P>

Orchid:<P>Ditto buffy (the hug is optional, just in case you find it inappropriate).<P>I like Jeffers approach. Also, remember car mirror warnings as well: Objects in mirror are closer than they appear.<P>Unfortunately, fog objects are lot harder to interpret. Might be a lovebuster, but you can mentally tell yourself (ala Bill Engvall) ... here's your sign!<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

Orchid--I think I know what you mean.<P>words--<P>I don't want to be around you.<BR>I don't want to be married anymore.<BR>I am not 'in love' with you.<P>actions--<BR>calls me a lot.<BR>took 2 mths to leave.<BR>only took a few clothes.<BR>wants to be able to 'drop' in at will.<BR>still is intimate with me.<P>I 'hear' in his words and see in his actions that he is riding the fence pretty hard. Whenn others see us together, their mind is blown because you would NEVER know what was going on...<P>Thanks Orchid for your insight.<P>Diva

Orchid,<P>Good stuff,<P>I will use it today.<P>Today my W cancelled our plans for the 4th because she didn't want to give anyone false hopes. I asked, Whose false hopes, She said everyones, Daughters, Yours, mine, asI know we willnever be together again.<P>I will call her back to validate her feelings and respect her decision.<P>Gotta go.<P>JK