Husband wrote e-mail last night. He wants to continue to be part of this family, come on his days off. However, he has found his new love and will continue his relationship with her. He says the kids want and need him to be around...he just doesn't love me. So, it is up to me on how difficult I want to be. <P>He wants to be "friends" with me. He will continue to help at the house and with the kids activities. He wants me to tell him when I need to have him here to help in August--so that he can bid his schedule.<P>I am amazed, I should have known that in his head this makes perfect sense. Now, if I don't agree with this, I am the difficult one. Doesn't matter that I have feelings..I will need to get over them for the good of the kids. <P>I wrote back to him with the following...probably once again not the MB way...but I didn't know how else to respond.From:<P> What is hard?<P> Went to the commisary today, but forgot to get milk. So my son and I went to <BR>Pigs and bought milk after his game. When we were putting it in the trunk,<BR>guess what son finds and pulls out.."Daddy's drugs". I was talking to a neighbor<BR> who was parked right next to us. I looked at son and said<BR>"What" It was so embarassing--he found you whiskey bottle in the trunk.<BR>H,you had better start addressing that problem. You are heading down the<BR>wrong path with your drinking and you know it.<BR> I read an interesting article today that was given to me. It has a lot<BR>of research behind it and it is in Minneapolis--if you want to get more<BR>info. It talks about alcohol dependency and nutrition. It has something to<BR>do with hypoglycemia (SP?)--They have had really good results with their<BR>work. They talk about the different types of alcohol dependency and what<BR>causes it. You might want to take a look. It would be great if you could<BR>figure out what causes your desire to drink. I don't think it is a<BR>psychological choice for you--but definitely provides a chemical need. The<BR>web site is <A HREF="http://www.healthrecovery.com/" TARGET=_blank>www.healthrecovery.com/</A> It is good. They also talk about<BR>tobacco and nicotene and how that affects your brain.<BR> Your drinking has had me worried for awhile now....especially when you<BR>are hiding bottles and drinking around the kids and us. That along with the<BR>tobacco makes it hard for you emotionally. Lots of varied mood swings.<BR> Again, I am not trying to make things difficult for you. We all love<BR>you. It is just hard having you bounce in and out of our lives. Of course<BR>the kids love you--all four of them do and need you to participate in their<BR>lives. However, first you need to decide what you want. You can't have it<BR>both ways. None of us are happy with your affair. It has hurt us all.<BR>?saidtonight that S &K talking "bathroom" talk. She<BR>said that they kept on for a long time. She was listening to see where it<BR>was going to go. They were talking about throwing "poopy" at your<BR>girlfriend's head. ?said it went downhill from there. She let the<BR>discussion go because Kaitie was mad about your telephone call from her<BR>yesterday.<BR> Your son wastill talking about your behavior yesterday. The cussing and<BR>anger bothers him....of course he loves you--he adores you....but he also<BR>knows that the behavior was not good. At least he is recognizing that it is<BR>not right. I don't know how we address that....it has always been<BR>there--smoldering under the surface. Lately it seems to be worse--probably<BR>because of the stress.<BR> I will have to think about August. This is my life too and I am tired<BR>of being rejected by you. It is hard to have you come home---but not be<BR>here. The little kids don't understand why there is so much tension. They<BR>don't understand that you are not going to be here anymore as my husband.<BR>They want mom and dad together--do you know what you want?<BR> I don't want you here like these last few months--it is not fair to me<BR>or the kids. I don't want that anymore--it is too hard. I don't want you<BR>for a friend. You are my husband. I can't freely love you because you don't<BR>want to be approached. I can't be myself around you at this time. If you<BR>want a divorce, then we will go through that and figure out your visitation<BR>rights. The lawyer said that it usually is every other weekend and 6 weeks<BR>in the summer. unless there is extenuating circunstances. That is the<BR>harsh reality of a divorce. I did not ask for our lives to go in this<BR>direction. I am tired of being hurt by it and I will protect myself and the<BR>kids from it from now on. I don't approve of your lack of respect in our<BR>marriage(affairs), alcoholism, or temper outbursts. I will protect the<BR>kids. They should not have to see your anger and cussing, they should not<BR>have to see you drinking with the irrational behavior that usually follows,<BR>they shouldn't have to watch you behave in an immoral lifestyle.<P> I realize that I have to make changes too. Your emotional needs were<BR>not being met. Have your read Surviving an Affair...it really is a good<BR>book. If you don't want it, I would appreciate it if you could bring it<BR>back to me. I want to learn more about building a great marriage. I hate<BR>to order another one. Sorry I have rambled on so long. I do appreciate your<BR>help..ie the garbage. Wish you were home for good so that we could build a<BR>new marriage. If not, we need to decide to divorce and proceed from there.<BR>This limbo stuff is not good.<P>Have to run to bed.<P><p>[This message has been edited by miserynmissouri (edited July 04, 2001).]

MNM:<P>Well, no one can fault you for violating the rule of honesty.<P>Whatever we might say: it is a done deal and sent. See what the response is and proceed from there.<P>Happy 4th of July to you and your family,<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

miserynmissouri,<P>Yep, honest it was. And for that it was good. <P>Be prepared for a backlash and how you are going to handle that. My suggestion is that you have ready an email that lays out the rules you need to keep your sanity.<P>He has set out his rules. He has left your marriage, is no longer available to you as a husband, is no longer available to the children on as a full time father, he will give you domestic support as it suits him.<P>The things up for negotiation are his visitation with the children. There is no way I’d allow him to just come and go. If he is drinking heavily then perhaps supervised visitation is necessary.<P>On his coming by to “help” you or just dropping by. My XH wanted to do this too. I paid dearly for it every time the “helped”. In by book this is out. Do you want him to call before he comes? So do not want him to drop by at all. These things are you call.<P>Just some thoughts on it. Your letter, though honest and forthright, does not lay down your rules and parameters.<P>How long have you been Plan A’ing? Are you close to implementing Plan B?<P>z<BR><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

I have been Plan Aing since I found out about the affair on April 1. H knows what he has here. He does not want to give that up. However, he says that passion is missing from our marriage. My question to that is, how do you develop passion when he is having an affair? An affair doesn't help build passion in a marriage.<P>When I look at our relationship over the last ten years...my H has been continually looking for relationships with passion. He has had 4 other affairs. Guess I have trouble understanding why he needs to look elsewhere. Sometimes I think he views me as his mother...it is bizaare. <P>I am coming to the realization that I don't want to live like this. If he doesn't want to find passion with me...then our marriage is dead. I deserve to have someone who wants to be with me and values me. I have a lot of love to give. I am getting tired of excuses. Also, as I am away from him more...I am realizing how self centered he is. The boating trip this weekend was an example. He lost his cool and then doesn't care about anyone else's feelings...it doesn't matter that he screamed and yelled at my youngest daugher as she was learning to ski, doesn't matter that he was cussing and swearing in front of my son...which upset him, it doesn't matter that his behavior at McDonald's was embarrasing to my 2nd daughter and her friend. I find myself being in the position I have always been in this marriage....that of smoothing over what he does to us. <P>I don't think he wants to face the problems he has. I don't think he will address them. I don't know if I respect him anymore...and I think that is big on his emotional needs list. I think that is what is causing him to reject me...the lack of respect. I still love him...but what he is offering is unacceptable to me. I want more than that.<P>I don't know how to implement Plan B. At this point I don't think he cares if he doesn't have any contact with me. I will have to think about how I want him to interact with us. Financially, I can't make it without him. Logistically, I don't know if I can do without him either. With my working and the kids schedules...it is tough. So, how do I do that?

Also, I have to say that we are heavily in debt. We would have been ok after this first year with the airlines. His pay jumps dramatically and we would have gotten our debts paid, new cars and appliances bought, and we desparately need new furniture also. I have a daughter that will be going to college in a year and another two years after that. I teach...but my salery is nothing. <BR>The breaking up of our marriage changes our lives dramatically. It really frightens me.<P>For that reason, he has to be still involved here. It makes it hard. As I said before, he bought thousands of dollars of material to finish an upstairs family room and also our basement. It is all just sitting there. Our house needs to be painted and repair work done. The deck needs a lot of work...and realistically we can't afford to hire anyone to do it. He has me over a barrel there. I have thought about selling this house or the one up in New York(our retirement house)...but for me to buy a new house here would cost just as much as this one did...and it would be much smaller. So much to think about. <BR> I don't know what to do next. I don't like the position I am in.

MNM:<P>Don't want to look to far forward ... better that the Plan A/B works for now.<P>But as for finances: if it comes to divorce, you are entitled to 50% of his military retirement; in addition to alimony and child/college support based on his current income. As I said, worry about that when the time is appropriate. Just mention it here to allay those concerns for the time being.<P>Who knows, stranger miracles have happened.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

Dear MnM,<P>This is a hard day for you but I will start by saying that your letter was from you heart. If you believe what you said then you have the right to say it. How your H takes it is his resposibility. <P>IMHO, I thought the letter was justified. Similar to what I have done myself. <P>You have expressed that you have love for your H but that his actions are not reflective of love or care for his family. Also you stated that being a parent and spouse belongs together and to expect 'friendship' without being a spouse is difficult for you. Eventually you can ask him can he be a friend and father without being a spouse. Don't do it now, one you will not like his fogheaded response and two he may not be able to truthfully answer you. <P>Also the letter pointed out that others do not appreciate his actions so if this is only suppose to be directed at you, then he does need to know that his conduct is not one even his children approve of. However, if this is his life's choice, then the rest will learn to live with it and so must he. The consequences of that choice is reality and all will need to live with it. In other words, he can't come out of this smelling like a rose if he is already rotten or hanging around rotten people. But if he likes to smell rotten then you and your family along with others who do not share his choice will distance yourselves from him out of a need for self preservation. Right? Keep rotten meat around long enough and everything else spoils. <P>I used this logic with my H. Hard but true. MnM, you are in plan B with this letter are you aware of this? Now are you prepared for the consequences? <P>1. Finances, if you are dependent on his income at this time, what options are available to secure that income for your family and work on providing some of it on your own?<P>Advice of a lawyer regarding legal separation/divorce is good to know. There are sites to check that show what laws are applicable for each state. <P>Be prepared. I did some research and even went to the family court system here. Took a walk in the courthouse to get a feel of what it would be like to go through a D. Oh, yes I needed to be prepared. H did not do that, he had and has no clue of the pain of doing even a 'simple d'. <P>This is hard, I know. But at this time you can not predict your H's actions. Doing this will also keep you busy in being productive. Down time during times like this is depressing and not healthy for you or the children. <P>2. Keep active. Do research. <P>3. One day, your H will need you 100%. He will know that he needs to be there for you and that the giving and taking needs to be a shared thing. <P>MnM, even if the D does happen, you will are and becoming a better person. You nor anyone else can not answer all the questions now. Be patient, you will be able to handle all your issues in time. Please pray for a calm heart and a clear mind. <P>As hard as it seems, I am letting you know that you are doing fine and going to be ok. Been there done that. Ok?<P>Try to find a bit to enjoy today. H & I are in the midst of major discussions. You know like union negogiations, they are long and hard. But due to all the background (the stuff I said above and more), I am more sure of myself and my decisions than I have ever been and now I am able to deal with an H that is more sane (he is still unsure) but that anger has dissapated. Now he is reaching out to me and I have to decide whether I want to reach out to him. <P>Tables have turned in this household. Hm..... part of the consequences. My H said he is having to work harder now for the little things than when he went and slept with OW. I said because I expect more of him now. Before I just said he was 'out of his mind'. You know what? H did not disagree about that statement. Progress.....<P>Well enough of my 2 cents. Have a nice day and a little. <P>L.<BR> <BR>

Thanks for all of your comments....I have to finally go and get back to real life here. My daughter wants the phone, I have to get my house cleaned up for my mom's arrival tomorrow(a monumental task--it is really a mess. I have been in such an emotional state these last two weeks--haven't done anything...and she will notice), and I still haven't packed for our trip on Saturday to Europe.<P>Thank you all for your support these last few weeks. It is so nice to have people who will listen. Hopefully, this trip will get my head so that I can think clearly. At least it will be a change and I won't have to deal with him for awhile. I won't be able to do anything about the home situation...so, I guess I will go and have fun !! Have a great 4th of July

You need to do this at your pace. Perhaps you can come up with a stepwise plan that will eventually get you to your goal. And probably a goal with two possible paths it the way to go. I think that’s what you have been doing anyway. <BR>One path is to take actions that will eventually lead to your independence.<P>The other path is basically Plan A him to death until perhaps he decided to come home to you. But this again has to have some limits for your sanity.<P>I believe that Plan Am with the limits serves either path. This is about you growing as an individual no matter the outcome of your marriage. <P>Have you considered doing the remodeling work yourself with the help of your kids and perhaps some friends? When my H and I split our home needed a lot of work. I had a girlfriend who was going through a divorce in the same situation. We ended up helping each other finish the work on our homes. We did have help from our children and an occasional friend or relative we co-opted. She has 3 boys. I have one. They were all under the age of 11 at the time. We had sleepovers at one house or the other. The kids would have a blast and she and I did the work. We knocked down walls, tore out old carpet and tile, etc. Actually the kids helped with the demolition work. They loved it. They took out the old tile with sledgehammers and demolished walls that way too. In their eyes the demolition was pure fun. To up the fun factor we let them color and write on the floor and walls first. Then they got to do the demolition. They laughed their heads off that they had such cool moms who let them do the demolition. They did so much work and never ever even saw it was work. it was a party. Bragged to their friends about their demolition parties. Some of their friends begged to join in. With their parent’s supervision we let them.<P>We wall boarded and plastered (she did have to hire someone to do the final detail on the walls but we did all the other work.), laid ceramic tile through almost my entire home and much of hers, refinished all of my kitchen cabinets, refinished wood floors in her house, painted, did yard word – fixed sprinkler systems, landscaped, etc.<P>Yes it was an enormous job. In the end I spent $5k on the work in my house and it sold for $20k more then it was worth when I started. The $5K included supplies and paying my brother for some help. It did help that we found a good, inexpensive source for ceramic tile in El Paso.<P>I gave me an enormous feeling a of control over my life. <P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Orchid: Thank you for your encouragement. I still get amazed at how strong you are...I hope I get there. I will start doing more research. I have talked to a lawyer once, will probably make another appt. for August before school starts. Am pleased to here that you and your husband are negotiating. It must feel good to be confident. <P>SNL and ZORWEB: I really appreciate you taking the time to comment. You both do a great job of encouraging people. Thanks for your help and concern. Off I go!!!!<BR>

I am stalling. Am supposed to be going to a friend's for a 4th celebration. Sent the kids over earlier. Have been cleaning all afternoon...cannot get this off of my mind. I hate being so depressed. <P>It is hard facing people right now and trying to look ok. I feel like crap. The kids are all doing fine--but I am not. Lord give me strength.<P>Thank you all for your posts today. They really help. Zorweb, will have to look into doing some of that stuff. I am really not very "construction oriented", but maybe I can learn. That would help build my self-esteem. It would be great to get that room finished. <P>Well, I guess I have stalled long enough. This will be the first time we haven't lit off our own fireworks. I didn't even buy any. The kids are disappointed. Oh well. Have a safe 4th!!

miserynmissouri,<P>Yea I know what you mean about not being construction oriented. But boy were we proud of the work we did. And our x's were in big shock. I think they thought that we were going to shrivel up and die without them.<P>I suppose they thought we were supposed to put up with their meanness and affairs because we were so “helpless”. HA! The best revenge is living well. <P>As for you not wanting to go out because it’s so hard to act happy, boy do I know that one. Does anyone there know what is going on in your life? <P>Since I told no one about STL’s affairs it’s been a problem for me. Though today my mother and sister are here and I’m doing ok. Think I’m moving past it all.<P>Hope you had an ok visit.. that it took your mind off of things for at least a little while.<P>Z<BR><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

We just got home. Went to my friends and then to the community fireworks. It is so hard because we have been here so long and everyone knows us from the base--we trained most of the pilots and I worked with their wives, and then we have lived in this community for 8 years.<P>This was tough night for me. In fact, I can't stop crying now. The fourth was always such a big occasion. I ran into about 100 people tonight that want to know where Jim is. This is so very hard. I am loosing it tonight. Please help.

MnM,<P>How are you doing this morning?<P>L.<BR>