I'm not sure if this is the appropriate place to post this. In a way I feel kind of whiny because so many of you are dealing with far more intense situations whereas mine only has potential energy right now. But I thought that maybe your experience might help me? I also should point out that I posted the gist of this on the "Other" board as a response to my own post about honesty.<P><BR>Anyway, this week H and I talked - a progress check we promised ourselves 3 months ago when things first blew up with us.<P>I think he found it liberating to be able to talk freely and intimately with me but oh what a burden I now have to deal with. Nor do I know how to react exactly yet because I don't want him to perceive this openess as dangerous and go back to not letting me know where he stands.<P>Nor do I regret knowing the truth - better to have the light on than fight shadows in the twilight. But just like eating from the tree of knowledge, something innocent has died in our relationship and I don't know yet with what it will be replaced.<P>It isn't past indiscretions that are as hard to face as current situations. He revealed to me that he really loves me and realises what a great thing we have going but when he is away at work during the week (he works out of state)he is so lonely for companionship that at some point he fears he will cross the line and seek it out elsewhere. He wants to find a solution where I can be by his side but that won't happen for a while yet. Should it be so hard for him to maintain a sense of connectedness and focus with me? Am I so easily replacable? Is this really a genuine love for me or am I just filling in a need for him?<P>We have worked really hard on our relationship recently and things really did turn around. But there are limits to what I am able to do to keep the relationship humming and I feel close to that limit right now.<P>He also revealed that he does fantasize about making love to women he sees in movies etc and that he had considered subscribing to playboy but the clothing catalogues we receive are "more than adequate" so why pay? So now, whenever we see another woman who is beautiful I think he must be thinking about all the pleasure he is missing by being stuck with such an "inadequate" female as myself. It is hard to feel romantic and desirable when there are all these other images to contend with on a daily basis.<P>If it weren't for the children I think that not only would I leave him (despite loving and admiring him dearly) but I would also avoid all close contact with any male. No matter how wonderful the total person is, men especially seem so driven by their most primitive impulses that it seems almost a miracle if they avoid hurting all those closest to them. You have to understand that my H is a thoroughly "nice guy". He can be very gentle and sensitive and quiet - very into his family and being supportive and taking care of them.. I would never have dreamed that he had any of this going on inside of him. In fact he was utterly devastated by his ex-wife when she left him for someone else and he has observed how traumatised his first children were as a result. He even told me that he feels like an "inadequate man" to be so distracted in this way and he knows he would be the biggest idiot if he were to lose us. But not only do I feel like a complete human being and don't appreciate being viewed as an inadequate female but I also find the uncertainty of my life right now so hard to deal with. Will this be the week...etc. And more than all this, I feel so much pain at what my children might have to face at a moment's notice. I know life is uncertain but given my choices again I'm not sure whether marriage is worth it.

sealf:<P>Why should you be out of touch just because he works out of state?<P>I travel frequently, and my W and I converse via Instant Messenger and via telephone (there are a ton of low-cost long distance plans). It helps us remain connected even when we are apart. And it helps me remain focused on my wife and marriage.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

SeenTheLight,<P>We have the internet and H has taken to calling me in recent weeks. The internet doesn't work for him but he does enjoy calling on the phone. But apparently this is no longer enough for him. I think a large part of all this is that he is just getting fed up with travelling all the time. He has been doing this for at least 3 or 4 years now and always finds it totally disorienting. He explained it to me as a longing for companionship - at least in the evenings - and I don't think he means that in the sexual sense alone - more of an emotional support and connection. And yes, I know the obvious solution would be for him to find other work. But that is complex too and won't happen over night. He told me that while he has a choice to be in this job he can probably deal with it but that if it ever got to the point where he was absolutely forced to do this then the situation would be unbearable for him and that he would more than likely capitulate. Something hard for me to hear.

<B>Nor do I know how to react exactly yet because I don't want him to perceive this openess as dangerous and go back to not letting me know where he stands.</B><BR>That’s great. It is okay to not be happy when he discusses things with you. It is how you react. If you blow up, stomp off crying & yelling, he will likely clam up. It’s okay to let him know you don’t like what he tells you or it hurts your feelings. Do it in a loving way so he does NOT get defensive about it.<P><B>but when he is away at work during the week (he works out of state)he is so lonely for companionship that at some point he fears he will cross the line and seek it out elsewhere.</B><BR>Does that mean sex? He can’t wait a few days? Why not call him up and “talk dirty” to him?<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

sealf,<P>I am SeenTheLight's wife. Our first anniversary was 6/6 of this year.<P>There are many similaritis to our stories.<P>My STL travels about half the time now. At the time we became engaged in April 1999 he lived in MD and I in NM. So until he moved to NM in July 2000, we saw each other about twice a month for long weekends. Sometimes we managed to sneak in a week or two vacations. On moving here, he started a job that required that he travel half the time. It was not until d-day, March 22, 2001, that I realized how much trouble he was having with the separation. He had built an entire life around women he met on the Internet. Here’s the brief story.<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000730.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000730.html</A> <P>Both of his previous wives left him for other men and alternative lifestyles. He now has custody of his children from his previous marriage. I have custody of my son from my previous marriage. They have suffered terribly.<P>Since D-day, using the MB concepts, we have put in place measures that now help both of us handle these separations much better. He is always home one the weekends now. That alone is so much more then we had before. We have started to have dates every weekend making the weekends so special that we both look forward to it. Sometimes life gets in the way of this but we keep getting better at putting that time aside. We seem to have drifted into the habit of having a Friday night “reunion date” to reconnect. These usually involve a bath in the jet tub, pampering, perhaps wine and music. This is our time to reconnect after being apart for the week.<P>While he is gone we use the phone, chat and email to stay connected. At one point this was getting rather boring because we had quit trying to make it fun. But we’ve spiced it up recently. One time I found a web site with some very suggestive poems. I read the poems to him. The phone and chat are also great places to play out fantasies. <P> I know you way that you’ve been doing some of this. But I thought I’d throw out some of the extra stuff we’ve been doing. It’s the stuff that helped us fall in love over a long distance to start with. We just rekindle it and spice it up, have more fun with it. I now look forward to our chats and phone calls. I spend time and thought about fun, playful things I can bring to these times.<P>RE: “I would also avoid all close contact with any male. No matter how wonderful the total person is, men especially seem so driven by their most primitive impulses that it seems almost a miracle if they avoid hurting all those closest to them.”<P>I can understand your feelings here. However, if you stay on this web site and read the postings you will see that there are plenty of women who behave in the same manner. And so what if men are different. Is it not that difference that makes us love them so? Instead of fighting it, find ways to make it work for you.<P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

sealf,<P>This is a good place for your posting, please continue to post in this forum if you need help. You are definitely allowed to be whiny here (or angry, or sad, ...). We understand. And yes, this is a very intense board sometimes. Those intense situations you see involve some of the strongest, most understanding people here. They are often on the A-team when it comes to helping newcomers. It's very theraputic to be able to help someone else!!<P>I saw your post this morning and have been thinking about it all day. I also looked at your earlier post in the "Other Questions" forum and would like to add to one of the suggestions:<P>Please, please, please read *ALL* the material on the MB web site (not just the forums). Especially pertinent in your case is to do the Emotional Needs Questionaire. If you can, it really helps to get the book "His Need, Her Needs".<P>From the info you've given it's not clear to me which need(s) your H is missing that you can't satify via long distance. He needs to help you identify exactly what he's missing when he's away (using the questionaire).<P>I also travel. I'm often away for a week, but I haven't had to do it too often lately (thank goodness). Your description of your H's disconnect sounds so familiar. I haven't worried about it much lately because I travel infrequently enough that I just deal with it and reconnect when I come home. But, about 12 years ago I was travelling every other week and basically I was just numb when it came to my W and family. Fortunately (???) I was only sleeping 4 hours a night and was so tired that I wasn't interested in fulfilling my needs with anyone else anyway. I'm lucky my W survived that emotional separation.<P>On my last trip I basically followed Zorweb and STL's example and communicated like crazy via email while I was gone (thanks Z and STL). Not only did I stay connected but my W stayed up late waiting for me. I don't understand your comment that the internet doesn't work for your H. This could be a marriage saver in your situation.<P>I'm getting a funny feeling from your response that your H is considering giving up on the marriage because this travel stuff is too hard on him. Did I interpret this correctly? <P>If your H really wants to work on this stuff, you might suggest that he visit this site too. There is a solution to your problem and very likely someone here can help.<P>There's a lot to learn on this site about why people behave the way they do romantically. For instance, I never would have thought I could make my W fall in love with me by just sending her sweet email (it works!!!). That would not have the same effect on me. You have to learn what makes *YOUR* spouse tick.<P> Please keep posting.<BR> -- Jeffers <P>P.S. I know you also had questions about "brutal" honesty. I focused on the problem that really seemed to be more immediate. If you read the web site stuff you might understand the honesty issue more. Then, come back and ask your question again.<P><BR>

Thankyou so much for your responses!<P>Before I replied I had hoped to check out the EN questionaire but I have an ancient pc which crashed after I downloaded it.<P>Anyway, to try and answer some of your questions. I have really tried to see what role I played in H feeling like this. He seems to suggest that there isn't really anything that I can do to change the situation. He assures me that when we are together things are more than fine and that he loves me and doesn't want to lose me. He seems to feel that even if I were to morph into the body of a model, the brain of an Einstein and the heart of a Mother Theresa it still wouldn't change the situation he is dealing with.<P>He blames much of the problem on biochemistry - his. He's 44 and says that for all his life he always felt a huge bonding with any woman he had sexual relations with - even with one whom he could barely be aroused by -which in turn made him very committed and loyal to that person. He had tremendous feelings of loyalty and commitment to me so long as we had made love the weekend before and this carried him through the week. Now he feels tremendous hormonal changes going on and has completely lost that feeling even though he still says sex between us is still very meaningful to him. [if this hormone really does exist and they could isolate it and market it...!] He also admits to the more well known complaint of missing his youthful vigour.<P>We spent some of today looking at relationship books in the store. He came across a book of emotional needs which another author said were essential to be met daily and he told me which ones he sorely missed when away from me. But he said he only felt deprived of these when away from home - more a sense of being in a wilderness away from everything and he didn't see how I could fill them in absentio. But I will try to do the EN questionaire here to see if that turns anything else up. As I understand it, he craves physical contact - not necessarily sexual - while he is away.<P>As for the phone/pc contact. I have tried to initiate stuff but he doesn't seem to want that [maybe I should try harder?]. H tends to be unpredicatble in that area. Most of the books I have that tell my how to please a man don't do anything for him. Yes, he does know about this site - I discuss what I learn from it with him and he wants to find the time to check it out also.<P>Thanks once again for your responses which are truly valued. It is so helpful to learn about other people's experiences and put my own into some broader perspective. No doubt I will eventually be a regular here as time permits.<P>------------------<BR>

<BR>RE: [if this hormone really does exist and they could isolate it and market it...!] <P>Actually I've read about a bonding hormone. I'm going to have to go find the book again and write down it's name. It begins with the letter "O". <P>Your husband may be experiencing mid life hormonal shifts. Perhaps a visit to the doctor is in order.<P>Progesterone or testosterone supplements might be in order. Also check with the health food store. There are some supplements like DHEA that really help men in this area. <P>Z<P>------------------<BR>

well, we both did the EN questionaire. Most of it, on both sides, pointed to lack of time together/travelling every week as being the major culprit. Most of the rest of the stuff he blamed on himself for being unable to communicate or open up freely (everyone acknowledges this about him - not just me). <P>However, H did reveal that a major issue for him was feeling valued for the work he does at work. He ranked admiration as his number 1 EN.Women at work know firsthand of all his projects etc and praise and admire him for it. I'm totally hi-tech illiterate and proably wouldn't have a clue about what he was doing. He thinks he could make more effort to share with me the trials etc that he's undergoing at work etc but I remain sceptical regarding how well I could appreciate something I don't understand too well. His dream is that I could somehow work alongside him so I could see his work firsthand.<P>Also, he revealed to me yesterday that he is drawn to the professional, strong woman who has authority and when they praise him it becomes heady stuff for him to deal with. This was a huge thing for me to deal with because I gave up any chance of a career track to homeschool our 3 kids, supposedly with his enthusiastic support. Even though I have a degree from Oxford and almost went to lawschool I'm 'just a housewife' I guess.<P>His number 2 EN was Sexual fulfillment followed by Affection. Again, he felt deprived of these - not at home but when away from me and he confirmed he has no interest in cyber or phone sex at all. He craves the physical contact. You have no idea how completely non-verbal H is. EN number 4 was attractive spouse - again he wants someone to be made-up/dressed up immaculately in dresses only *all* the time. He constantly sees women at work dressing professionally and that's kind of hard for me to do while I'm scrubbing the toilet and burping the kids, even though I do make an effort in the evening. But apparently that isn't enough for him. He realises this is all irrational but it still doesn't change the way he *feels*.<P>So, my best hope for now is to see if we can stop the weekly travelling and whether that by itself will resolve the situation. After that there is counselling and after that it would have to be seperation so he can decide what he really wants from life.<P>Thanks for letting me 'think out loud' so to speak.<P>------------------<BR>

sealf,<P>Just currious. Have you asked your husband if he has interest in someone else. I am sorry to ask this but it almost sounds like he does. Perphaps the fog is settling in?<P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

zorweb,<P>Yes, I've asked that quite a bit. There was a russian lady working as a consultant at one of H's client sites. Apparently she was extremely beautiful and all the men there commented on her beauty. H told me that about a year and a half ago he was wondering if there was any way polygamy could work. I had no idea about this. Apparently nothing happened except that after she went to work somewhere else she sent H an email asking how he was. H tells me he didn't keep the email and that he didn't respond. But when 3 months ago our marriage hit rock bottom he found the idea of leaving me to find such a relationship just about irresistable. Had we not done some major marital surgery at that point he'd be gone. There's also another lady at work who brings him Indian food who I think he was intreagued with at one point even though he tells me she isn't so physically attractive to him - it's just the attention she gave him.<P>I did ask him if he had anyone specific in mind when he told me that he sometimes longed to seek "comfort" at any expense. He said no and there's really no way I can verify that at the moment. But the big thing that worries me with H, and we have discussed this together, is that often *he* is in denial about his true feelings/state of affairs. He suppresses things very deeply until they burst out uncontrolled. So there may well be definite feelings for someone specific and he hasn't even allowed himself to realise it yet. I know that sounds unlikely but that seems to be how he is and has proven the case in other instances. Like I said, right now I can only see if a)he agrees to eliminate the travel (at enormous financial loss to us) and b) does that have a tangible effect. If not, I want him to talk with a male counsellor (not that I'm denying my part in the problems but that he might open up more to another impersonal guy and figure out what exactly is happening)- because I'm doing somersaults to find out and not getting very far. And failing that then I will let him go to sort out what exactly he wants by himself. I know that's a risk but nor can I perpetually live with this kind of shadow understanding of what really is going on. For now, I have to believe him or I'm not sure how I could proceed with what we're doing right now.<P>P.S. I would be interested to know what specific things made you think he might have someone already?<p>[This message has been edited by sealf (edited July 07, 2001).]

sealf<P>The reason I asked if your H might already be involved in an affair or have someone picked out for one is that what he says just sounds like typical fog talk.<P>I cannot put my finger on any one thing; it's all of it. To me it sounds like he is starting to explain why he has no control over his need to stray. I for one would not be surprised if he was already involved. <P>I guess that one thing that really hit me is how he explains thing at his work. He does not mention how the men at work make him feel good about himself when they praise his work. I am an engineer. I work mostly with men. We all praise each other about equally. If any male engineer started to praise me and fawn over me unduly I would get uncomfortable with it. That is not what goes on in a healthy coed working environment. My bet is that there is really only one woman at your husband’s work who is praising him and making him feel good. He mentioned her to you. And then there was the one some time ago.<P>Your husband should be able to get all of his professional stroking from the men and women in his job in an appropriate manner. This is not your place as you are not involved in that environment. However, you husband has told you now that admiration is one of his top emotional needs. You perhaps you can evaluate how you are meeting that need and step it up. There is probably a lot for you to admire about him as a person, husband, and father. How often do you praise him for the things he does for you and the children? Double or triple that. Just make sure it’s sincere.<P>Your point about him needed to give up the travel, no matter the cost, is a valid one. But I can see him fighting this. I am sure it is his identity. This will be hard for him to give up. But it will also be essential for your marriage.<P>Can you move to the city where he is working?<P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

zorweb,<P>Thanks again for your candid reply! I guess I understand why you'd think he was already in an affair. There's also something nagging at me about all this. But after giving it careful thought and even reading your last post to him and discussing it I don't think he is having A at this moment. I would *really* like him to talk to a counsellor to help him get things more out in the open in his own mind. <P>After spending a great week together H went off to work today. Before he left I asked him whether I had any reason to be concerned. He said, not so long as he didn't start to feel emotionally 'neglected'. I asked him what if he did and he said he would call and tell me. I asked if that would help and he was unsure. When I asked what he would do if it didn't help he said "I won't do anything - just immerse myself in t.v. I suppose".<P>I think the most frustrating thing for me is that I feel like I'm being 'punished' for something I can't control. He wants me there with him and I can't be there no matter how badly I want it too. Right now he doesn't have a single client site (otherwise we would have got a 2nd residence there a long time ago) but travels all over N. America and Mexico. You're right about it being hard for him to quit. Although he hates the travel he loves the job. Probably the closest he can come to being a knight in shining armour, riding in to save the day. I hate that he has to give that up. I'm not wild about losing about half our present income to take a less glamorous position in Minneapolis where neither of us really want to live. But neither see an alternative if we want the marriage to survive. I'll have to see if he goes ahead with it though.<P>

sealf,<P>Sounds like the two of you are making some ground. As long as he will call you when he is feeling lonely there is hope.<P>It may be hard to give up the income, but you will be gaining a full time husband and he a full time wife. That is worth all the gold in China.<P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare