but this time, I listened to what he had to say. Said he had been on vacation the last two weeks and he and his family went to the beach and the zoo and just all over the state and he really enjoyed that time with his family. He said that if I had not decided to break things off with him, he would have stayed at home and tried to see me as much as he could. But since he spent so much time with his family, he realized that THAT was what life was all about, how much he missed when he shortchanged his family and divided his attention. He said that he was closing the store tonight but he was not going in until 7pm. I asked him why so late and he said so he could spend more time with his wife and new son. He thanked me for being strong enough to do what he couldn't do and said that because I did that for him, he considered me his best friend and hoped that we could still remain friends down the line. I just said It's possible, but we still shouldn't see each other face to face for a while. He said he understood and he thought that was best because even though his wife means the world to him, he wasn't completely over his feelings for me. Then I told him I had to go to sleep because I had to get up early to go to school. I didn't go to sleep though. I called E and talked to him for a long time. I think if there was no E to divert my feelings for MM, it would have been a different story.

Just me, but when OM called me last week and said "this has kind of served as a wake up call and really made me realize what I have at home" ... that makes me laugh, HE IS STILL CALLING ME!<P>Just be careful, I think my OM is a bit more manipulative than most maybe, but he is just poking around to see how I am "doing" and "feeling" and he is still thinking of me, etc. etc. he is a big fat liar to say he realizes what he has at home, if he did he wouldn't be calling me. Just my thoughts. <P>Be careful, the person that I am would love to be happy for him for "seeing the light" but I think he is just seeing if there is any possibility to start this up again after he feels me out ... just be CAREFUL and really think about what MM is doing by calling in the first place.

You are stll being manipulated by this guy. As a guy I can see the tactic right away. You keep making the mistake to keep contact open. He is hoping for another affair and is setting you up for it. In time of weakness or if you are feeling low or if no E then it is highly likely.

Rodger,<BR>What tactic? Please excuse me if I sound stupid or naive but I thought that since he had such a great time spending time with his family and even decided to stay home later today to spend more time with them that he had finally gotten his head on straight, priorities in order, and was on the right track.

hi "NOT"...<P>I think if you continue in a friendship with MM, at some point it has to include his wife & family, or there are still secrets. If MM wants to restore love in his marriage, there can be no secrets...his wife has to resume her rightful place as his best friend. If this idea hurts, then you are not over the A. Take time for yourself.

It is basically the same as my MM who I had tried to be friends with told me this the other day. "Some things can only be done a certain way.....and this is one of them. If you ever change your mind and decide there are some things you're willing to keep secret, let me know."<BR>You see I tried to be "just friends" as he was willing to also at first and then when I told him "oh I forgot to tell you that if I am questioned by my spouse if I still speak to you I will not lie and I will pay for the consequences"<BR>well from seeing his response if you will notice it was ok to be friends as long as he doesnt have to pay for the consequences and besides what kind of friendship is this that "can only be done certain ways"?<BR>I have been lurking here for a couple of months and while I am a WS as you can tell I am moving out of the fog and after this ridiculous note I think I will stay out of it.<BR>KitKat

Robyn, <BR>No, what you said didn't hurt at all, and I don't think I would have a problem with knowing his wife, but it's doubtful if we would ever be friend's---how many BS's become friends with the XOW? Besides, I've never been the type of female that has a lot of female friends ( ironic, but after I was dogged out so many times, I never really TRUSTED females to be my friends and I've developed more platonic male friendships and to me personally, I think guys are better friends [to me]) Right now though, I don't even want to be in a close friendship with MM. I think the type of friendship where you call each other maybe once every other or every 3 months or so and say "Hey how's it going, what's going on with you, how's the family" that type of thing. That's not really a friendship if you think about it. I don't want to go out to the movies or to a club or bowling or anything like that with him/them. I still think that would just not be a good idea.<BR>Even if I'm not with E, I'm a college student ( even though I don't get out much and live the typical "college life" because I'm not still a teenager and prefer to stick to myself more) and I just found out I passed my test for the Department of Correction and will be going to work full time as a corrections officer, I'm sure I will be too busy to think about MM as often as I used to. They say absence makes the heart grow fonder but in this case it's more like out of sight, out of mind. Does that mean I didn't love MM as much as I thought I did?

Robyn's Clues,<P>Do you really believe that it would be possible for “NOT the weakest link” and to be included as a friend to her MM’s wife and family? I don’t see how that is possible. I guess that in very rare occasions it would work. But this would be too painful for his wife. Because for there to be full honesty in his marriage he and “NOT the weakest link” would have to tell his wife about the affair and about her involvement in it.<P>There are very good reasons for the no-contact rule.<P><BR>NOT the weakest link”<P>Weakest, what do you mean by “dogged out so many times”? I’m assuming that you mean your friends ended up with your boyfriends. You have said in the past how badly so many guys have hurt you. Yet you continue to have men for friends. If that’s the case, then Remember that the guys did it too. Perhaps you have a real rivalry with other women. You said a while back that you don’t know why you keep getting into these situations because you were loved and all growing up. Well, one of the reasons women get into affairs, or triangular situations, is to prove that they can win, that they are better and more desirable then the other women. That would make sense in your current relationship with E. Shoot if you win him; you are winning against two other women. What an ego boost. Unfortunately, your feeling about other women is not uncommon. There really is not a “sister hood”. Many women do not like or trust other women.<P>I was discussing how women fight with my counselor this week. She said that the problem is that women have no rules for fighting as men do. Men do not kick, bite, spit, etc. But between women anything goes. I think that’s why we see so many OW, like Just a Person here stalking their MM’s wife. I have yet to see one man do this. It, quite frankly embarrasses me to see women behave like this. Maybe we should just start fighting like men; at least there are rules there.<P>Sure guys are better friends to you. Male friends will always have the possibility of getting into your pants in the back of their mind. <P>My take on our MM’s call was that he wanted to hurt you back a little and to test the waters. He’s been calling you for some time and you’ve been ignoring his calls. So he has totally ignored your no-contact letter. That shows no respect for you. Then he goes on about his wife and how wonderful – rubbing your face in it. So tell me how much remorse did he show? If he really wanted to work on his marriage he would tell his wife of his affair and never, ever talk to you again. He is still playing games with you. And perhaps you still want to win. Now that you have broken your very own no contact rule, expect him to call more and more and want to start up with you again. He’ll probably use some stupid excuse about something being wrong at home. <P>I feel so bad for his wife and children. They deserve more then this. I wish you, or someone else would call her and let her know of the affair. <P>RE: “in this case it's more like out of sight, out of mind. Does that mean I didn't love MM as much as I thought I did?”<P>Yep that’s what it means. If you had truly loved him, you would not have been able to jump right into E’s bed.<P>Z<BR>

NTWL,<BR><B>What tactic? Please excuse me if I sound stupid or naive but I thought that since he had such a great time spending time with his family and even decided to stay home later today to spend more time with them that he had finally gotten his head on straight, priorities in order, and was on the right track. </B><BR>I think what Rodger is trying to say is,he called YOU after he got home to share his “good news.”<P>Sharing your life with someone you had an affair with is NOT something you would/should do if you are committed to repairing you marriage.<P>As long as there is ANY contact between you & him, you will always be on his mind which means his wife will be that much less on his mind.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

NTWL:<P>The biggest gift of friendship you can give the MM is the no-contact rule.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

zorweb,<BR>you were right in assuming what I meant by "dogged out". The few times that I HAVE become friends with females, they all did something very trifling. I see your point about the guys having done it also, but it just seems so much easier to be "one of the guys" than to sit around and "girl talk". I have guy friends that sit around and talk about female problems with me and I been around a few conversations that would make a sailor blush, but I guess that came with being in the army. Anyway, when you say "yep it means you didn't really love him, if you did you wouldn't have been able to jump in to E's bed" ---I gotta say hold up on that one. It's not like I broke up with MM on Tuesday, met E on Wednesday and was sleeping with him on Thursday. I met E over a year ago during one of me and MMs "off" periods---where we were both busy and moving in opposite directions and barely had any contact at all for like 3 months or maybe even longer than that. When MM called me again after our "off" period ( we weren't mad at each other) he asked if I was seeing someone else and I told him YES. He got a little jealous but coouldn't really say anything about it. MAYBE two weeks after that conversation, E told me about him trying to work things out with his XOW/baby mama. About 2 or 3 weeks after that, me and MM were on again. We've known each other for 3 years and it's just that now that he's out of the picture, I don't find myself NEEDING to talk to him, or see him like I did 2 years ago or even 6 months ago. I've thought about it and I know I'll always care about him but it's time for me to move on, with out him. I just got tired of hearing the " If only I had met you before I got married" and the "If only there were two of me" or "if only it would be ok to have two wives". That did neither of us any good because we both knew that NONE of that was going to change and he wasn't going to leave home. I once asked him how did he act when he got home after seeing me and he said, "I kiss my wife, i kiss my daughter and talk to them for a little bit, but when I get in the bed< I think about you and that I miss you, and I wish things were different" He told me the relationship was "emotional torture" because he wanted to be with me but knew that couldn't happen because he's already invested so much into his family. I wasn't trying to torture the man!<BR>Also, If he was supposed to be rubbing his happiness in my face, I REALLY feel bad because I didn't even see it as that and it didn't make me feel bad or jealous or upset at all to hear that he and his wife had such a good time together. OOPS