I asked my WS to please remove the cell phone from our house. I asked her on several occasions and its still there. How do you even do a plan A while she still lives in our house and has his cell phone in her purse. She really has disengaged from her children; our oldest knows his mother is never around and realizes what is happening. Just sad. I told him we'll be just fine and gave him a hug. This morning was interesting, woke up at 7 am, got out of bed and she asked where I was going. I just looked at her." Why"? I went to get my kids ready for camp.<BR>I think she responds to my indifference rather then my affection.Tonight will be strange its friday, does she expect to go out to dinner with me ?. Should I do that or just stay with our children. I will be retaining an attorney this week.<P>

adamsol:<P>In the matter of the cellphone, her ignoring you is a huge disrespect within your home.<P>I would be tempted to take the cellphone battery with the caveat that she can have it whenever she leaves the house. But that approach would be a huge LB. Not entirely sure what course in Plan A to take when it comes to blatant disrespect. A noggin scratcher, for sure.<P>As for a Friday night out, that is up to you. How much will that go toward making the requisite love bank deposits? How much will not going subtract? What is the state of the account? (I know, it is a hard currency to count in the midst of fog.)<P>Hmmm ... you win the Occham's Razor question of the day <smile>.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by adamsol:<BR><B> How do you even do a plan A while she still lives in our house and has his cell phone in her purse.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Plan A is best done when you're still living together. Do you need assistance with this?<P>Having OM's cell phone in your house is totally ridiculous - she must have private quarters on the Mothership. You can ignore it or make her PO'd with it.<P>Maybe you should just use the phone to call all your friends in say, Sydney?<P>Seriously, she sounds so screwed up that you may be best to not try to reason with her at all. Having the phone is bizarre. What are her intentions regarding remaining in your home?<P>WAT

Listen, The cell phone is just to much for me to deal with. I'm trying to plan A when all I really want to do is Plan Z her out the window. "I won't"<BR>I think its time to kill the charge cards and put her on an allowance. Listen she wants this D sooner then later and she really earned it. Whats your advice ?. "I need it"

Well, I do believe that she just may need to get out of the house. Less of a stress for you and her. Or is she just there to make it easier for the both of you to still know what each of you are both doing to some extent?

adamsol - the cell phone IS too much.<P>What has she told you about her intentions?<P>Please consider having a session with Steve Harley. He's the pro.<P>Will she leave? It's likely you can't force her out, but your attorney can advise you on that. It could be that her demonstrated level of disrespect requires a separation. You can still Plan A while separated. You probably can't Plan A correctly with a Plan Z mindset.<P>You can take steps to lay the groundwork for a separation by opening your own bank accounts, getting rid of jointly held credit cards, etc. You know how to do this.<P>Again, don't try to reason with her. Treat her like a drug addict. Please get Steve's advice.<P>WAT

I sense that your W. still wants her account at the Bank of Adamsol, but not the husband that is attached to it. I HOPE I'M WRONG...you sound like someone who has alot of love to give. <BR>If she is carrying a cellphone belonging to OM, and you know about him, the phone, the whole works...then the phone itself is immaterial. The phone just represents the pain. Personally, I would ignore the phone, and ignore her. You can make the phone go away, but you can't make the disrespect go away.<BR>Make it clear to her what you are prepared to offer her financially. This way she will no longer try to manipulate you for money. <BR>Good luck...keep us posted.<BR>Robyn

Just called the house to see that the children came home in one piece. She answered and proceeded to tell me what she's up to. I told don't bother. The cell phone is preventing me from plan A. She asked if I spoke to an Attorney today, I told her that she was pushing me and I had to go. I'm sorry I can't stand to look at her better yet talk to her. The credit cards will be closed on Monday. Things will be changing this week and I will start a plan B while she in the house. What do you think?<BR>

Adamsol,<P>You are getting good advice here. This is a tough one as I do not think that any BS should be putting up with this type of disrespect. I know that some people give the advice that the disrespect is there whether or not she has the phone in the house. But I feel that having the phone is a huge leap above having an affair outside of your home.<P>There is a part of me that says to ask her politely to keep the phone out of your house as a person has the right to some peace and respect in their own home. <P>Then if she continues to have the phone in your home and receive phone calls on it at home, I would smash it. But we all know that sometimes I go off the deep end. There are some things that I would no put up with. I would do this as calmly as possible, probably with a smile on my face. <P>Or is there a way to disable the phone? Remove a few screws and disconnect some wires? Is this imature? Probably.<P>So don't do these things without speaking to Steve first. I'm sure he has a better approach. I'm at a loss with this type of behavior. I've read so many posts here where the WS is doing things like your cell phone problem. I just cannot imagine doing this to my husband, no matter how angry I was at him. <P>My heart is with you. Hang in there.<P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

So: Is this a relationship I should be subjecting children and myself too? Listen from what you are all saying she has crossed the line beyond what should be tolerable. I don't see this marriage ever being any good. I have a poison living with me. She should move in with the OM and give us all a well-earned break. “Being married to a narcissist is not fun”

Hi Adamsol:<P>My understanding is that Plan B, or cutting off contact with your WS, is intended to preserve whatever love you may have left for your W. Plan B usually includes a letter suggesting that you are willing to work on the marriage, if and when your spouse is willing to join you in doing so.<BR>Is that what you are feeling?<P>I've never heard of this being successfully done with both parties in the same house. Ignoring her indefinitely will only lead to increased hostility, in my opinion. Either do a true Plan B and separate yourselves physically, or consider ways around the phone issue - there have been some good suggestions here.<BR>R.

adamsol - let's start at the beginning.<P>Do you want to salvage your marriage? Not, do you think it's salvageable.<P>Based on what you've described, she's not much different from any other WS out there. They all have their extremes. Yours has the cell phone. Mine had denials not even a two year old would believe.<P>If you want to salvage your marriage, you need to first examine what problems you contributed. Then fix them. I'm not saying that you caused the affair - only your wife made that decision - but all of us had some contribution to the fertile environment for it to occur.<P>If you want to apply the MB principles, you cannot jump right into Plan B. That's no different from the knee jerk reaction to "throw her out" (your Plan Z).<P>Ignore the phone. If you can't, use it to call OM and tell him you intend to salvage your marriage. Is OM married? Does his W know what's going on? If not, find her and tell her.<P>Make your financial preps for seperation. At the same time, Plan A, Plan A, Plan A. This means find and fix your problems, kiss her butt, and don't piss her off. It takes a man to do this, not a doormat, because you have a long term goal. Doormats think and feel short term.<P>Take care of your kids. It takes a man to do this, too.<P>When you're alone and tired and frustrated, cry your eyes out. It takes a man to admit your pain.<P>Make an appointment with Steve Harley to get real advice.<P>Keep coming back to us to let us help you.<P>Now, do you want to salvage your marriage? I am not speaking down to you. I am with you. Let's do this together.<P>WAT

Is it a VoiceStream cell phone? If it is, open it up, take out the battery, and behind it you'll find a little plastic chip/card. Take it out. Put the battery back, close it. . . Voila! Cell phone is inoperational. Put chip where you like--microwave, trash, your pocket, garbage disposal, etc. Just a thought. (FYI, returning the chip to its place makes the phone operational again. . .)

WAT and gz1234,<P>Please note that I was not suggesting that adamsol smash the phone. That part of my reply was sort of tongue in cheek. I said that he should speak to someone like Steve to get some advice on this because it's a tough one.<P>I'm keeping eye on this thread and on Zen's about the same topic because I do not know how I would handle it except in what many would concider a love buster. I am flabbergasted that someone would do this. Yet we see so much of it on this forum.<P>So I'm trying to learn from all you good people. WAT as always has such a good approach. <P>And gz1234, I like what you did. Yes, you still know she is talking to him but you have set some boundaries. What would you do if she did not respect your request? It seems to me that Adamsol has asked his wife to stop using the cell phone in the house and she continues.<P>Again, just trying to learn here.<P>Z<P><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Well I'D smash the phone. She must have a lot of nerve to contact the police (or him for that matter) for busting up a phone. And what are they going to say to her? Why don't you make the phone "dissapear", or drop it in the toilet or something. <P>I'm sorry but I think she is walking all over you. I think she needs a confrontation with how you feel. You can take this plan A stuff too far - some measured anger is necessary to break open her fantasy world. She needs to realise what damage she is causing. <P>PErhaps this is LB but I don't care. I have held back a lot over the past ten months, but when I found she had photo's of him kept in a drawer, I tore them up, threw the bits in the air, and thoroughly destroyed the negatives. I could only laugh when she said I had no right to destroy her property. There is only so much one should take.

Hey Adam, <P>Just my $.02 worth here...I think what you are going through sux!! I think that your wife is using what love and forgiveness you have to LB YOU, let alone being disrespectful to you and your kids! As I see it, there is no plan A, because she has decided there isnt. I agree with you...she should be Plan B'd to OM house and they can talk on cell phone to each other all they want! (If in fact you are finished with the relationship!) If you are not, then she has to agree to Plan A, totally, completely, and unconditionally. This is your game, you are the umire and she is definitely OUT of options and time! Again, depending on whether or not you are convinced you are done...if not, then punting is always a good option on fourth down! I agree with Zor, in that talking to Steve is an option, but it really boils down to whether or not you are ready to end it all or still want this worked out. You do have some ambiguity in how you speak about it in terms of what we all think and in terms of how you feel? I sense you feel one way, but believe something different? Could that be true?<P>*Out of our greatest fears, come our bravest deeds!*<P>Trueheart

Well I thought this would turn a few stomachs. I will handle the phone issue without Harley. But the common consensus is that it’s beyond the line. She is very much like a drug addict and when I took it from her last time it was flash back from the 70's when drugs were taken away "withdrawal". It was the first thing that came to my mind. I will be killing the charge card and closing my bank acct this week. She asked me to go to her father’s birthday party two weeks from now and I was in shock. Why? Yes I love her but no not at this price, remember this is number two and years of hell. Do things really ever change? I have beautiful children that fill my life up with out regrets. I believe that once she losses the children and her home and permanently her husband a different reality mindset might occur. It’s a gamble and I have no down side. Ideas?

Adam...<P>A dose of *reality therapy* could be in order. I think Plan B could a way for you to see what her true direction and commitment is. I am not a veteran here, but it sounds to me like a radical approach, well thought out plan, and some time to focus on you are necessary! Be ready for what you are about to do, though. It is the toughest challenge of all I think!<P>Trueheart

adamsol - we all can feel your frustration. I still don't think she's any different from other WSs described here. Her disrespect is just more visual.<P>Please refer to my previous reply for my ideas which I still think are valid - especially the recommendation to contact OM's W if he's married.<P>Regardless, your first decision if whether you want to try to salvage this. If you've already made the decision not to try, by all means, follow your emotions and take care of yourself and your kids.<P>Good luck,<BR>WAT

I am not sure this will be much help, cphone is a bit of an issue here. I own mine, it is not "someone" elses, but the issue is the same. Because my friendship with ow is long distance the phone is used, my w feels threatened by the phone itself, and wants physical control of it (to check logs, and have possession anytime I am home, she does not want me to check a vm, much less take/make an actual call). <P>While I can understand her (and bs) mindstep, it runs smack into my feelings of being treated like a child. She is not my mother, I am an adult, and doggone it will talk to whoever I darn well please. I know the psychological issues here, that one wants to stop the ws from contact with another person, but when that extends to involuntary control of their rights as human beings you are gonna have trouble. She is an adult, it is her home, and you have absolutely no right to dictate anything to her, much less fool with her stuff. This is the hardest thing for bs to "get", yeah we were wrong, we know it, and we may not fully participate in the MB effort at first (or ever), but when bs starts trying to actually control us in inappropriate ways (like interfereing in the choices all adults have) you do absolutely no good, and just encourage us to pull further away from you. You are making aggression and control part of your relationship (for her own good of course, yuck).<P>Your issues are emotional, and fully understandable, but you are stuck with them. Your only choice is the other set of options, asking her to move out, or serving her with divorce papers, and that's it, anything else is working against your efforts to rebuild (even if successful, she will never forget you "make" her do stuff, and she is the child). Or of course you can "negotiate" along poja guidelines the phone issue. Maybe she will give it to you while you are both home, but she can do as she will when you are not, or she is gone. Or maybe she can agree to go outside whenever it is in use. I know how nuts this can make someone, but the ultimate point is always the same. We (ws) have to decide on our own, what to do, no one can successfully make us do anything.