Message Removed. Ken THINKS he Is Smart (always NICE to be one up)!!!<p>[This message has been edited by gz1234 (edited July 11, 2001).]

my initial reaction was to tell her she can have her divorce and she what she does after that. I was wondering if it works both ways--- see, when I betrayed wife tells a wayward husband that ( from all the cases I've seen) it's like a bucket of cold water and the reality of what the MM could be losing is suddenly up close and personal and they do a complete turnaround and try to move heaven and earth to save the marriage...IF they really want to stay in the marriage. The MM usually turn on the OW and call her worse names than the BS could think of. Maybe it works the same way with wayward wives as well. <B>But don't go on what I say!!! I'm not married, just an xOW.</B> I know that my reaction would probably be considered a major LB, I was just stating my opinion and will probably get slammed for it.

I am all for saving marriages too especially if there are children involved. But the longer this affair lasts the less likely I think that the marriage will eventually succeed. I think there has to be some limits. Why are the WS's getting off so easy these days? It's amazing the abuse the BS's are putting up with. I guess sex is one of the strongest drives we have. Once you get turned off with your spouse, maybe it's too hard to spark up the engine.

gz1234,<P>You are right that this is getting to be too much. How are you doing? Do you have anyone near you who can be supportive?<P>Hopefully you will not read this after the fact. When she gets home be sure to not love bust. Love bust does not mean to roll over and put up with anything. But it means to set your boundaries with as little yelling, incriminations, laying guilt, etc as possible. <P>Perhaps when she get home you can offer her plan A .. to agree to have no further contact with OM and to agree to the MB concepts to rebuilding your marriage. Or she can choose Plan B. <P>I know that others here will tell you to Plan A her till the cows come home. But in your case I really think that Plan Bing her will do a lot of good. Let her have some time to get all of her EN’s met by OM. Since he is still with his wife, it will be impossible. You see he has some of his needs still met by his wife. Your WS will not be happy to share her OM with his wife. So the pressure will be one. And so the affair can die in the light of day. <P>Just MHO.<P>Please keep us posted.<P>Z<BR>

gz1234<P>I would recommend to plan A if you can. Stay in it as long as possible before going to plan B.<P>When I found out about my WH's A I asked him to move out, hoping to shock him into being sorry. It backfired. He hardly argued a word and was out the door to live with her. Not a good idea!

Message Removed. Ken THINKS he Is Smart (always NICE to be one up)!!!<p>[This message has been edited by gz1234 (edited July 11, 2001).]

gz1234,<P>Again this is probably too late. There is no way you should let your FIL take your children. This will only serve to confuse them more. Meddling family is exactly why I never told anyone in my or STL’s family about his affairs. As you said, her family is overly involved in this.<P>Since he is married to he OW perhaps he hurt his family in much the same way your WS is hurting hers. So maybe he is motivated by guilt.<P>Talk to him calmly without the kids present. He sees his grand children hurting and wants to undue some of the damage he caused years ago. Tell him that you appreciate his concern. One of the best ways to defuse a person is to ask for their advice and input. It is a complement for one man to ask another for such things. This could make him feel better and more in control. And who knows, he might actually have some insight that will help. Let him talk and vent if needed. Be careful not to love bust with him. You don’t need anything more coming at you. You are already dealing with enough.<P>Z<P><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

gz<P>You are right that you are living in hell. It's a hard place to be. But you are doing fine under the circumstances. Perhaps you can ask to wife to implement something like the POJA towards your children. That way you are not asking her to give anything to you, only to protect your children.<P>Just a thought<BR>Z<BR><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Message Removed. Ken THINKS he Is Smart (always NICE to be one up)!!!<p>[This message has been edited by gz1234 (edited July 11, 2001).]

gz:<P>I've been a similar spot and I am still not completely sure what I'm doing. I've been told by my FIL that "the love's just not there..." and that was the extent of it. He and my W's mother know that they can't change her mind for her -- she-d just resist even harder -- so they're just staying out of it.<P>I can tell you that my W has said very similar things to me about not being able to fix it. She told me it was flat out unfixable and impossible. Since then, I've been learning more and more MB and I feel like I learn even more each day. I've been trying to Plan A as best as possible, but our separation is looming... less than two weeks now until it happens... I still don't know if I'm going to Plan A while separated, or switch to B. I can tell she wants me to keep filling ENs when we separate.<P>Oh, and my W's separation is also about figuring herself out. I LB'ed the other night because I suggested that it was really about getting time with the OM, but I've recovered.<P>She's no longer being so adamant and pessimistic, and I believe that it's because my Plan A efforts are working. If you Plan A correctly and consistently, she will eventually notice and this WILL impact her. You've got to have faith in the process.<P>If you can, take some time to read more about Plan A, especially this post from Redon:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/010345.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/010345.html</A> <P>All hope is definitely not lost. If you can think about this enough, and realize that Plan A and B are as much about you as they are about her, you may be able to reach a stage of enlightenment that will allow you to Plan A even more effectively. My life these days is working to get to those stages... I can get there but then can slip back out.<P>Take care,<BR>zen

Message Removed. Ken THINKS he Is Smart (always NICE to be one up)!!!<p>[This message has been edited by gz1234 (edited July 11, 2001).]