I posted this on the Just Found Out list as Stayhome (can't find my password). I hope it's not a breach of protocol to ask here too -- this list seems more active.<P>My H stays out late and sometimes lies about where he's been. Recently I found 2 condoms in his drawer. <P>I confronted him about the lies and the condoms. He says his therapist suggested the condoms when he said masturbating was uncomfortable.<P>Can this be true? I want to believe him, but this is a stretch for me. We have had a very rocky year; I almost moved out last summer but he threatened a custody battle. I stayed and I thought we were supposed to be working on the marriage. We share no intimacy on any level. <P>Has anyone ever heard of such a use for condoms? My sister says no man has ever bought them for this reason.<P>I just want to know whether I'm being lied to. (Not sure what I'll do with the information. I also discovered he made a purchase at Match.com -- an online dating service.)<P>Dori<P>

Dori, <P>Welcome, first of all!!<BR>I, personally, have never heard of such a use for condoms, especially *prescribed* by a *therapist*. I have heard of lotions and creams, but condoms? I think your H doesnt think much of you. I would ask him for the prescription or the therapists name and number. Maybe the three of you could have a session together so you could get some answers as to this *prescription*?<P>Seems to me, if he is *threatening* things like custody battles, that he likes things status quo...ie...having his cake and eat it too? I dont know much about your situation, but he obviously likes having a mother for his children, and Lord knows what else? If you share no intimacy, it is my guess that you probably dont share much of the truth either. <P>I hate to sound cold and callouse, but I think the wolf is trying to pull the wool over your eyes. If you have caught him lying before, chances are he thinks you are falling for his stories and has continued his behind the scenes activities. It may be time to get a few more answers and the real truth?<P>*Out of our greatest fears, come our bravest deeds!*<P>Trueheart

Trueheart,<P>Thanks for your response. Some of the lies have been amazingly easy to check up on. Either he's stupider than I can imagine, or he thinks that I am.<P>I do know who his therapist is. He has been seeing her for some time already. I suppose we could go back to couples counseling. We gave up on it after months and months.<P>We are still together now only because of the kids. The lying on his part goes back to the very beginning of the marriage (14 years). A year ago I became a WS, but gave up the A in the hope that Harleys are right and a dead spark can be rekindled. He was begging me to stay -- I emphatically wanted out. [For what it's worth, I disagree about some of the wisdom about "the fog." I don't think this is a one-size-fits-all diagnosis.]<P>He is financially dependent on me and does not like change as a general proposition. The kids are very close to both of us and seem really well adjusted. A separation could only make their lives less happy (I think.)<P>I was finally starting to feel the slightest little shred of affection for him when this happened. I'm not sure I can allow it again. <P>

Dori, <P>You have hit on a couple of things that I was feeling, but out of respect didnt want to say....<P>A) I was right about his being financially dependent on you...strange that we can recognize a meal ticket in these conversations. He is dependent on you and doesnt like change...No offense, but if I had a W paying for most of my life, I wouldn't want to change it either, especially if I was free to come and go as I pleased and get away with lies?<P>B) Your children are smarter than you give them credit for. They feel and see the underlying tension in a disfunctional family situation, even if it is not spoken. You are not doing them a favor by staying together, if indeed, there is no love being shown to them. Think of the lesson they will learn someday if indeed, there is no love in this household and they are trying to build relationships of their own. What is the response when they say, *Well, you and dad did it for years, right?*<P>C)My gut instinct was right in that, he thinks you are the stupid one and that he can get by with things without you either asking questions or checking up on him. I think a broad based radar scan of his activities, friends, work, and whatever else may be in order. If this M has any chance of survival in the next year, you need the total truth about who he is and what he has been up to. My guess is you will be more than surprised at what he has pulled off, even as well as you know him. I believe it will go deeper than you know because up to now, hes been allowed to without you questioning anything. If indeed, you are feeling some affection and want this marriage to last, read the section on the Agreement of Radical Honesty and let H know it is time to come clean with everything. (And by the way, if he is financially dependent on you, he has very little chance of winning any custody battles. That is his way of intimidating you into not changing status quo for him. My belief is that he thinks you fear him.)<P>Get to the bottom of the well before the water dries up!<P>*Out of our greatest fears, come our bravest deeds!*<P>Trueheart<BR>

dmarie4349,<P>I responded to your post in Just Found Out. Your H is sounding more and more like my XH. I asked my H (SeenTheLight) about the condom excuse last night. I’m sorry to say but he also thought it was a lame excuse.<P>As for the Match.com thing. Why not put tracking software on his computer (www.iopus.com). That way you can find out what he is up to. You need to know for your sanity. Once you have conclusive evidence though, you might not want to continue because too much detail will only serve to hurt you further.<P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Zorweb,<P>Thanks for both your responses! I just looked at the iopus website. I didn't realize such a tool existed! Thanks for the tip.<P>As for the condoms, I found a website about male masturbation -- kind of embarrassing to read, good thing H is out of town -- there were some suggestions regarding condoms (and even a balloon), so maybe that little piece is not totally impossible. But I know there have been other lies too, so I'll get the tracking software.<P>Trueheart,<P>I'm sure you are probably right about the extent of deception. The one thing I've learned is that lies and truth sound exactly the same to me. I don't get any second sense that I'm being deceived; I only discover the deception because of the inconsistencies.<P>I'm not sure about the effect on the kids though. I don't think they see what goes on outside this house (yet), and I'm not sure that having a loveless marriage as a model makes them any more likely to end up the same way. It certainly didn't work in the reverse -- my parents are each other's best friends. While there certainly were some challenging times, their marriage has been about as good as it gets. But my siblings and I have botched more than our share of relationships anyway.<P>In this state custody depends on "primary caregiver." I'm trying to make sure it would be me, but if I'm the one who's working, it's a scary concept.<P>Dori