So, my H wrote me back the other day telling me he needs to talk to me, it's important.<P>Yes, I did reply. I basically re-iterated the plan B and asked him to stop contacting me if he did not want to reconcile. I had to.<P>He wrote me back with this:<P>-----------------<BR>Look, we need to talk.  I won't say any more.  You pick the time and place. <BR>-----------------<P>So now I don't know what to do. Ignore it? I don't think I can. I'll keep wondering "what if?".<P>One thing you have to realize. There is no way in hell that my H is ever going to leave me a message or sending me an email saying he agrees to the conditions. Not gonna happen. If he agrees, the only way I see it happening is us talking and him doing it face-to-face. He has issues expressing feelings like that in messages, he would never admit he was wrong, even if he thought he was (if you think about it, it's sort of what it's like to a WS). He'll do it in person, but not over email/voicemail.<P>So, that's where I'm coming from. I like to think that he has that much respect for me that he wouldn't talk unless it had to do with us getting back together (since that's what I wrote). Given all I know and how depressed he is right now (I think he has truly hit rock bottom), I really believe that is what he wants to talk about but he just won't admit it. But, I really don't know for sure and he won't tell me.<P>So what do I do? It would be wrong to just ignore it because I will always wonder "what if?" and he IS making an effort. How do I find out what he wants w/o LBing??

Tough one,<P>I dont know what to tell you exactly. I guess you have to go and see what he wants, but he has done such a good job of manipulation just to continue contact that you need to go with low xpectations.<P>Can you work on a speech ,if you realize that he is not going to say what you are looking for, if he just wants to talk again, can you say something like why do you want to keep contacting me, why cant you respect my wishes and stop hurting me, Why cant you let me go, if OW is so imprtant to you that you can not give her up, then why do you need me? Tell him everytime he does that you feel that he does not love you or respect you. Ask him to repeat back to you why you want him not to contact you. <P>I dont know, sorry, maybe this is bad advice, but I think you need to state your felings in a non judgemental way. and get him to hear and undersand what you want.<BR>Lora

It sounds to me like you really do want to talk to him. Perhaps sending him one more email, asking specifically if his need to talk has anything to do with your reconciliation would be the thing to do. Just ask a question that requires a simple yes or no answer. And if the answer is yes, then meet with him. <P>I'm not sure how long you have been in plan B, but it doesn't always take very long for the WS to have it hit home. I speak for myself, in my case, I was only in plan B for less than a day!<P>If you have the choice of the time and place, make it somewhere public, where you can get up and leave easily. A local doughnut shop would work perfect for that.<P>Keep us posted on what you are doing! <P>Karen<BR>

I'm not a regular here, so I'm not sure of the Plan A and B stuff. I'm guessing that you are supposed to stick to your guns (good thing as I see it) UNLESS he wants to reconcile???? Is that it? <P>And, if I'm correct there, how do you know that he wants to reconcile? Is he supposed to commit to that on the email request for a meeting?<P>I'm not offering an opinion on this, just wanting to understand.<P>I hope that it is what he wants, and what you want (even more important). <P>Best of luck.

Hi everyone. Thanks for the posts.<P>Lora, great ideas. I've been wrestling with them myself. I want to say all those things but I'm not sure how to do it w/o LBing. I will practice and see if I can get it right. It will be very difficult to leave if he is reaching out for help (but does not want to reconcile), but I will try.<P>Topie, good idea on the email. Here's what I was thinking, think he will take it as an LB??<BR>--------<BR>H, Please let me know if what you want to talk about has anything to do with us and the possibility of us getting back together. Just a simple yes/no. If it's yes, let's meet at <insert stuff here>. If no, I've already explained why this cannot be, please respect my wish for no contact.<P>Love,<BR>HbH<BR>--------<P>Janet,<BR>Hi! Welcome to MB!! Yes, I am in plan B and the idea is not to have any contact unless the spouse is willing to reconcile and accept the terms of your letter (no-contact letter to OW/OM). There's nothing I can find that says HOW this must be communicated. Your questions are what I am wrestling with. My H likes to play mind games and is good at manipulation, I have no idea what he wants to talk about and can only hope at this point that it is reconciliation. I think most H's would sent email/voicemail saying they want to come home and are willing to do whatever it takes. My H, on the otherhand would need to say that face-to-face. <P>I think I will start a quick thread on how most WS's agreed to come back after plan B to test the above theory. Thanks all!!

HBH - thanks for your message to me on my Plan B post.<P>You know the strict Plan B answer to this problem, but I understand your logic for wanting to stray from the rules.<P>How 'bout this for an e-mail reply: <P>"Like I said before, I am anxious to talk to you as soon as you agree to the conditions I explained in my letter. This will be the time. The place is not important. Are you ready? A simple "Yes" will do."<P>Now, just typing "Yes" is not the same as expressing feelings in detail.<P>What do you think?<P>WAT<P>Anything more than this will compromise your strength of position. You just got started. Please don't break the rules so soon.<P>

Honestly, if you are saying that he won't come to you, admit he was wrong with open arms and lay all his cards on the table then really nothing has changed, HE IS STILL CONTROLLING the situation with his power, not with love. I think WAT has a good idea of what to say, either it is about working on his marriage, beginning with no contact with OW or it isn't. There are no in between's of "Well meet me first and we can discuss it". Either he is ready willng and able or he isn't. Sounds like more manipulation for him to call the shots to me.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hurtbyhubby:<BR><B>--------<BR>H, Please let me know if what you want to talk about has anything to do with us and the possibility of us getting back together. Just a simple yes/no. If it's yes, let's meet at <insert stuff here>. If no, I've already explained why this cannot be, please respect my wish for no contact.<P>Love,<BR>HbH<BR>--------<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>Personally... I'd leave out the meeting <insert stuff here> info. If he answers you with a yes... then arrange it with him. If he answers no... then don't reply, period.<P>Let us know what you decide to do.<P>Karen<P>

SO has anything happened yet? Let us know. <P>If not, I think playing games over e-mail will just frustrate you and him both. Either ignore him and seee what happens, or just go meet him. Either way you'll get your answer.<P>------------------<BR>Faith1

Well, 3 hours after my H sent that last email (the one I posted about), he wrote me again (I had not replied yet).<P>This is what he wrote:<BR>-------------------------<BR><W>, what I have to tell you is very important. I looked at my schedules, and I have Monday after 5:00 free. That is it. Otherwise you will have to wait a long time to hear this, at least two weeks. I will only talk to you in person, not through e-mail, phone, or third party.<P>Let me know if you want to talk, otherwise I will leave you alone, except for seeing the kids. <P>By the way, we need to establish a new system for me seeing them. I am sick of talking to my mother. She still things I am mentally unsound. Thanks for that one. <P>I have next Saturday morning and afternoon off, and maybe I could do something with them. I would not be able to travel, not enough time, but maybe I could take them out to eat.<BR><H><BR>--------------------<P>Hmmm... So, I just replied yet again (I know email games). I said he sounded very angry, and I was sorry about the way things were with his mom. I explained that I wanted to talk with him but I need to know if what he wants has to do with us possibly getting back together, just to answer me with yes/no. I said Saturday was fine for the kids and for him to come up with a better idea on working things out with them rather than using his mother.<P>Of course, now I am all worried about what he wants to tell me. You knew this would happen, huh? Is it me, or was he threatening me alot? It seemed very controlling to me. What the he** is it he wants?? I don't understand... What could be SO important? I hope it is not that he went PA or that he wants a divorce... I will try not to think of it because it shouldn't matter now anyway, right?? <P>Will let you know what happens next. I hate mind games.<P>

I'm not an expert on Plans A or B, but I am well versed in the manipulative mind of a control freak. I think it sounds like he wants to get you alone to tap dance on your sympathy, create chaos on the home front, and maybe take a few shots at your faults. Personally, I'd take him up on that 2-week delay (or even longer) by saying, "You know, I'm glad you said that. I think I could use the extra time myself. Send me the dates and times you'd like to see the children, and I'll check my calendar." I don't know you too well, but your words (to us, not to him) sound like you feel insecure right now. Please don't see him unless you can show nerves of steel and a veneer impenetrable to his manipulation and deception. He knows your weaknesses, and he will exploit them next if he doesn't get his way.<P>Nell<P>------------------<BR>One faces the future with one's past.<BR>--Pearl S. Buck

HBH:<P>I like WAT's approach, if you feel you must answer. Very succinct and clear-cut in meaning. Not allowing ambiguity in minimal contact is a definite must.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

hurtbyhubby -<P>There is actually so little time to get the answers/advice you need, because he is pressuring you for an answer. Unless you've actually been in that situation - it is very hard to give advice, because one never knows unless they have the experience.<P>I've never had to Plan B - did you post over on PlanA/B? You should to get some experienced advice.<P>I will pray for you, hugs, aftershock

I like WAT's approach, but his emails smack of controlling and manipulation. He is putting conditions on your Plan B. He doesn't want to answer you directly, because to do so compromises his position, in his mind. <P>Be careful that when you meet to talk, he doesn't give you the rules and conditions for him coming back. I think I have seen in other posts, that sometimes, you have to bend a little to move forward. This may be the case here in seeing him and talking to him, but whatever you do, make sure that YOUR EN are met and that YOU set the tone for any reconciliation scenario. Do not settle for anything less than what you deserve under any circumstances. <P>*Out of our greatest fears, come our bravest deeds!*<P>Trueheart

Dear HbH,<P>While in plan B these types of discussions can be productive as long as the ground rules are set and respected. Your H has said he wants and needs to talk to you. You obviously have questions also and need answers besides being anxious. <P>Here is what I believe needs to be done. <P>1. Let your H know that you are willing to talk as long as both sides can be civil. Feelings and emtions are running high for you now and possibly even him so out of respect fo reach other, can this talk be done as calmly as possible?<P>2. Let him know that how others are perceiving him is not within your control just as his actions are not within your control. So you do not have the ability to make him look bad or good. <P>3. Prepare yourself for the worst. If he is coming to ask for a divorce then plan your reaction as best as you can. It is ok to cry. Make sure he agrees to do it not give you the responsibility. <P>4. Don't let him force you into making any hasty decisions. Even if they are headed in the direction you want. Make sure you give yourself the opportunity to think things clearly. <P> Remember you may want him back, but as your H not a man only partially committed to you and your family. <P>Above all else, RESPECT YOURSELF!!! Make sure that he does also. Right now, he doesn't have to like you but he does have to respect you. <P>Take Care, <BR>L.<BR>

ditto both Nell and Orchid - although they have diferent answers.<P>Personally, I'd call his bluff and take him up on the two week delay. Make the arrangements for seeing the kids - just as you proposed, via e-mail, and let him stew about the "important" stuff.<P>Keep coming back to us, OK?<P>WAT

Thank you everyone. This is very difficult. I am sick of playing email games, he won't give in and agree to anything. For me to continue with not answering or questioning him would just be me promoting the mind games. I hate them, I need to make them stop. I can't live like this for another 2 weeks.<P>Whether right or wrong, I have agreed to meet him tomorrow night (Monday). But I told him if his intention was just to hurt me that I would appreciate it if he cancelled.<P>Thank you everyone for your support. I will try to expect the worst. How does he keep managing to do this to me even when I am in plan B? I am anxious/worried/on the edge again. I try so hard...<P>I feel like I can't win. I can't get what I want (my H and my family back) and I can't even get what I don't want (to get on with my life while I wait for my H to work out his demons).<P>Sigh.

Sounds like your H is STILL trying to control the situation. I agree with Worthatry. As difficult as it is, I would wait the 2 weeks.<P>If it were SO IMPORTANT, then I believe that your H would bend over backwards (tell you in e-mail, whatever way was possible) as to what is so important.<P>Even if it is a mind game, I would still call his bluff and let him stew in it.

Ok everyone, our assignment today is to work on boosting HbH's ego so that she feels stronger about that meeting tomorrow. Ok? Ready set go. <P>Here is my power boost to you:<P>Ways to improve your self confidence:<P>1. Know that you are not the causing the A. This was his<BR> choice and decision. <P>2. Your interest is not selfish, it is to preserve the <BR> family. <P>3. Focus on the reason for the meeting, to hear and agree<BR> on reasonable improvements. That is your goal and <BR> while not being able to control your H, convey that<BR> you want it to be his goal as well. <P>4. Practice a bit in your mind but don't do it all day. <BR> Get out and enjoy something. The sun, water, kids, etc. <P>5. Eat light but frequently. Don't have a heavy meal today.<P>6. Drink lots of water. Squeeze a little lemon juice in it.<P>7. Take your vitamins. <P>Ok, those are my suggestions...... next?!?!? <P>I need to go out for a meeting this afternoon, but will try to watch the board. If you need to talk, let me know. My address is on the JFO listing and I can send you my phone number. <P>Take Care you are not alone in this. ....<P>L.<BR>

Whatever happens,be strong and know that I am thinking of you.<P>((((((((((((((HbH)))))))))))))<P><BR>SAD (no longer alone)<P>