The password change was not part of our initial POJA =(<P>I made that decision in the midst of emotional distress because of her betrayal of our POJA and regret it now =(<P>But the question now is... do I go and change it back? She seems to be very happy today. She has called me several times at work and its only 9am! She is doing yard work, and going to go shopping later, to keep herself busy. I really think she has a slight internet addiction problem and has almost been looking for a way to escape. Even if this decision to stop her internet use was made poorly, it might be a positive thing since it is going to help set her free.

GodlyMan:<P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A> is a plan to respectfully negotiate the ending of an active affair. So it's effectiveness isn't diminished by the affair still going on---that's part of the strategy of dealing with the affair, from your perspective.<P>If you haven't already, please order <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>Surviving an Affair</A>. It's Harley's book on Plan A and B, and what you need to be doing (or not doing) to get through this time.<P>I don't agree with unilateral "changes" that you make in her life to prevent her contacting the OM. Because if she wants to, she will. All you're training her to do is be dishonest and sneaky. She's going to have to give up the affair for herself---you can't "make her".<P><BR>

Oh God, I don't think I can do this. <P>I made another mistake that morning (Saturday)<P>I installed a program to record chat conversations.<P>I pulled it up this morning and found her conversations with him yesterday. She *promised* me over and over that she wasn't speaking to him anymore. She promised me that she loves me. <P>But the things I read are beyond LBers. I can only take so much, and I feel I have reached my limits. I found out about yet another guy.<P>She met this guy last year. She became friends with him and with my over-trusting demeanor, I let her borrow my car and drive to see him. When she got back, she said they just went shopping and ate lunch. But she got into a little fender bender. It was raining, and she said she was driving and fishing through the glove compartment for a map and lost control and hit a curb. <P>In her chats yesterday, she made fun of me for believing that lie and told this new guy that the truth was that she had her hand up his shorts. This new guy laughed and called her his little slut and she loved it. <P>I always knew she was a little wild, we both are. But this was like I was listening to a completely different person. I still love her, but I don't know if I love this person I was reading about. I don't know if I can.<P>What next? I know I made a mistake in betraying her trust but I would rather know the truth than to just let her keep on living this life apart from me.<P>But I've decided to be a floormat for just a little longer. I don't even sense she is struggling to keep our marriage. But I am going to give it a little more time. I am going to respect her and love her, but if she doesn't make any effort within 2 weeks to start telling me the truth. Then it is time for Plan B.

I may get some flack on this.. but you didn't betray her, she betrayed you. Part of the MB principles is to know EVERYTHING about your spouse; it helps to maintain a wonderful marriage... when BOTH spouses are sharing openness and honesty with each other.<P>By telling your wife that you know about this new OM would most certainly be a major LB. But she does need to know that you know. What you have to decide, is how much information do you still need to confront her with? Can you handle any more emotionally? If not, then approach her with your newest discovery. If you can handle getting more info, then stay calm and quiet, and save what you find, print it out, whatever works for you.<P>By the sounds of it, she is very much enjoying sitting on the fence eating her cake. You need a strategy to cope with all of this, and as you've already been advised, Steve Harley is the one to help you with this.<P>You have already discovered that there are 2 OM. Prepare yourself to find out about more. Always prepare for the worst. I'm not saying that there are any more, but in case there are, you want the hurt to be less (if that's possible).<P>It is very possible that your W does want to work things out with you, but just doesn't know how. Until she can figure some things on her own, all you can do is plan A your heart out.<P>I went through quite a bit of this same 'waffling' with my H. He was telling me how he wasn't seeing anyone else, he needed some time alone, he was willing to 'see what happens' between us, etc. All the usual fog talk. I now know that during that time he was dating at least 4 different women. 2 of which he slept with for sure, one with whom they did all else but, and the other one, well, apparently they didn't 'click'. Whatever!<P>I don't know what else to say. Just keep on reading and writing posts. We'll help you as much as we can.<P>Karen<BR>

GodlyMan:<P>You'll find that I am well-known around here for sounding like a broken record. This is typical behavior for an affair. When you told me how "happy" your wife sounded yesterday---that brought back bad memories. A sure sign of renewed contact.<P>Please make the call to Steve for counseling. You need an experienced pro helping you through this. He's the best thing in the world right now for your marriage (888-639-1639). You're not making a mistake in not "trusting" your wife---she's clearly not worthy of an ounce of trust. But what you do with the information, and how you <B>choose</B> to behave is critical. Please get the coaching and advice you need.

Godlyman,<P>I was a WS. And I can understand where your W is at right now. She is deep inside a fog that will take lots of time to break free of. Once inside this fog, lying comes very easy. A person does whatever is necessary in order to meet that OP. to have any contact. So now you have to decide if you can be patient enough to give her the time she needs to come around again.<P>Talk to Steve or a counselor of your choice. Get the questionaaire for emtional needs and find out what needs your W has that some how aren't being met. It must be more than just flowers and chocolate and a clean house. Find out what she needs. You can get those forms online here.<P>It took me 5 months after d-day to come around. And when I was happiest during that time it was when I had some kind of contact with the OM. When I had no contact, I was moody and mean, and wondering if this was all I had to look forward to in my life. So she is pretty much doing the typical wandering spounse thing. And yes, I even laughed at my H behind his back. So that is nothing new. But while in that fog, white seems black and black seems white.<P>My prayers are with you.<BR>debbie

Well, we are officially in Plan B.<P>First of all, there aren't 2 OM's right now. She ended it with the first guy long before she even met this guy, but I didn't know about it. <P>Well, she called me at work and said that she called him and told him she needed some time off to try and mend her marriage. I told her I was SO happy that she did that and she asked if I could come home so we could talk. I left work immediately.<P>We got home, and sat on the bed and talked, and talked, and talked. About everything. All the things we've done. She told me about yet another guy that she had phone sex with. I was SO blind. I confessed about flirting with some girls online while at work. We were both so very unhappy at home and just never talked.<P>So I thought, this is great, we are getting this all off our chests and now we can really begin to repair our marriage. So I asked her if she would do a POJA to not speak to the OM again. She said she wasn't sure. She said that her love for me has been weakening over the past 6 months and that she just wasn't sure of what to do. I've heard it on here a dozen times before already... she said she loves me but isn't "in love" with me anymore.<P>So I asked her what does she want to do? I told her I am not an unreasonable man and I am not asking her to be perfect. But I am asking her to try. To take it a month at a time and give us a chance. I asked her again if she would go to counseling and she said no. I asked why and she said she wasn't sure. I said, are you afraid it will work? And she said, yes, that's it. <P>So I calmly and lovingly explained Plan B. I told her that it is just not possible for her to keep living with me if she continues her relationship with this man with fervency. She said she understood that, and that is why she has been so confused, because it is unfair to me. So I told her that it would be best if she went and stayed with her mother until she was sure of what she wanted to do. She said yes, just for a couple days. I said "No, until you are sure. I don't want you to go, but if you stay, all we will do is LB all day until we are hopeless. At least this way there is a chance for us to make it."<P>So she started packing, and crying, and asked me for a hug before she left. I said it wouldn't be fair to do that. She said she understood. I went back to work and now I am wishing SO badly I took the hug.<P>I miss her already =*(<P>About couseling, I can't afford $120 for 45 minutes. I just don't have the money. My Health Insurance covers wellness counseling and have a 24 hour phone number I am going to call tonight. I am going to need all the help I can get. I am so confused and SO alone right now. I don't know have any friends except my wife's family. Pray for us. Please.

Godlyman:<P>I hear you about the finances (back in the "olden days" when I was counseling with Steve, the rate was half). If there's any way that you can swing it---please do try.<P>If not, I'd strongly urge you to buy a copy of Surviving an Affair, either from the website here or Amazon.com.<P>In my opinion, you've moved to Plan B much too quickly---a good Plan A is needed as the setup for Plan B. If you feel the need to be in Plan B, then you need to understand exactly what Plan B is---a no-contact separation, started with a loving letter to your wife explaining the reason (primarily to preserve your love for her), and letting her know that you will be ready to reconcile when she is able to end the affair.<P>As of today: no chatting with females online. No opposite sex friends to share your marriage problems with. You talk to your counselor, and perhaps one or two close male friends who will support you. It's tough---but you've got to do this right.

I agree that Plan B has come WAY too quickly. I had hoped to give Plan A a chance for at LEAST 6 months before even thinking of separating. But she just refuses to let this man go. She won't even try. She doesn't want to. And as long as she still talks to him day and night, we will get nowhere in reconstructing our marriage. She *needs* to let him go.<P>I had my letter all written out, but then we met at home and I pretty much said everything that was in my letter face-to-face. I still have the letter, even. I explained that the primary reason for it was to preserve my love for her. I told her that it was too hard to watch her still in their relationship, while I was trying so hard to reconcile. Way too many LBers.<P>I told her that I hoped she would figure out a way to let him go and come back to me, truly ready to start over again.<P>To be honest, I have no one right now. No female friends or male friends. How I got into this mess? I don't know. But I am going to need counseling, bad. And I can't wait to get home and call and have someone to talk to.<P>But like you said, this is tough, but I got to do this right. And both of us pretending that everything is ok just isn't the "right" thing. We've been watching movies, and eating out, and all the while she is still professing her love to him at night. That's not what I call marriage building. <P>I hope I am doing this right.<P>

You misunderstand the intent and execution of Plan A. My wife was involved with her OM for six months AFTER I discovered it, while I was in "Plan A".

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by K:<BR><B>You misunderstand the intent and execution of Plan A. My wife was involved with her OM for six months AFTER I discovered it, while I was in "Plan A". </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I suppose I do not understand. I thought the very core of Plan A was a POJA and a no-contact agreement? If she won't even agree to not see him again, how would that be any different than before I knew about the affair?<P>I need to re-read the basics

Have you tried plan C[onfrontation] yet? It worked for me. I contacted OM and told him what would happen to him if he didn't back off [I don't think I actually would have done anything but I sure as hell meant what I said on the phone].<P>You'll see how much OM cares about your W if he thinks he is going to have to suffer some consequences himself. Or he might actually be a basically nice guy [yeah right!], shocked by the damage he is causing. <P>Even if it doesn't help, a confrontation may make you feel stronger. It helped me. <P>If OM is married I'd ALWAYS contact the spouse. She deserves to know as you do, and it may cause him to put his attentions elsewhere. <P>As for timing of this confrontation: either on or near D-Day when such an emotional outburst may be excused, or when you are in another D-Day type situation. Such as now, probably. <P> <P><BR>

My wife has a cousin that has been VERY suspicious of this affair for some time. She knows the OM and has probed him on MANY occasions about it. <P>Right now, that cousin is threatening to call the OM's spouse and tell her what she thinks is going on. And my wife is flipping out about that, that she would hate her forever if she did that. <P>So if I exposed this affair to the OM's spouse, and hurt them, wouldn't that be a MAJOR Love Buster? I mean, you have NO idea how much I would love to do it. I want to call his wife, and tell her what he's been doing, but if this would turn my wife against me, I am not doing it.

IMO, by you or your W's cousin NOT telling the OM's S, only allows their fantasy world to continue. Of course your W would be upset! You know how it feels to have your world torn apart.. you're going through it right now. Call it an eye for an eye if you will.. but the OM's W has a right to know what is going on.<P>Again, IMO, your W has had the opportunity to stop it. She cannot. I think it is up to you now. If you think it would be better, then perhaps get her cousin to do the deed of telling. The longer they can keep their secret, the more hurt there will be. <P>As far as plan A and B goes.. there isn't any real short version of what it's all about, but I'm going to give it a try <P>Plan A:<P>You fulfil as many EN's as you can towards your spouse. More likely than not, it will take a long time for any of your EN's to be met. Plan Aing is what you do all the time, unless you are in plan B. It is not just something for recovery, it is something forever. It is also about making changes in you. Those changes vary from person to person. Usually, those changes derive from the list of 'problems' that created the environment that led to the A in the first place. In order to plan A, you have to be aware of YOUR part in the A situation (that environment that was created). You have to be totally honest with yourself. Then you have to do something about it. Those are the changes. A HUGE part of plan A is to avoid Love Busters at all costs!! You know, those selfish demands, hurtful words, etc (basically, those things that feel so good at the time, but you regret after). Ultimately, being in plan A will make the WS want to work on the marriage. Once that decision is made by the WS, THAT is when the POJA and no contact stuff comes into play.<P>However, the BS can only take so much.. or shall I say GIVE so much. There comes a time for many, that it is too much to handle. You cannot bear being a doormat any longer. That is when you plan B. This is also where the 6 month suggested time frame comes into play. If your plan A doesn't work in that length of time for the WS to end the A, then the BS needs to knock 'em off of their fence.<P>Plan B:<P>To be done right, is only to be followed by a great plan A. NEVER plan B on a bad day. Plan B is like a divorce. There is no contact between the BS and the WS (by the BS's choice). But it is done out of preserving the love for the WS, not as an effort to hurt them. That is what is to be explained in the plan B letter. It is during plan B that the BS cannot fulfil any of the EN's of the WS. If you did a great plan A, then the WS will feel the impact of what he or she is missing out on. And ultimately, will finally decide to work on the marriage. HOWEVER, should that not be the case, then that's okay too. When you get into plan B, your love bank is at such a low level, that you need that break anyways. Again, if you have plan A'd well, you will have made changes in you that make you a better, stronger, happier person. <P>Is that enough information? I know I'm missing out on some things. Anyone else care to chime in? I hope that helps to clarify plan A and plan B for you.<P>Karen<BR>

With my wife being apart from me right now, and susceptable to not coming back, I don't think it would be good timing to tell the OM's Spouse just now. Maybe you guys are right and I definitely should do it, but upsetting my wife right now is not what I want to do. I've catered to every EN she wants and we've talked about everything she wants, and it always comes back to the fact that she can't let him go right now. I am almost regretting going to Plan B already, but it just wasn't fair to keep pretending everything is ok, knowing full well she was still talking to him.<P>So is it my place now to stop it, when I've just told her to go and make her own decisions?<P>I am so confused. I can't wait to see a counselor already =(<P>