Well, it is late, we just got home...<P>First, his mom came over to sit with the boys and we left for "3 to 4" hours...for our talk...but no outing, lately, would be complete without a little 'house shopping.'<P>Yes, folks, we spent the first two hours going through model homes in our area...not, however, in our price range . Lots of talk about where boys would sleep, where his 'gym' would go, why he liked a certain floor plan or not...<P>Then we went to a 'neutral' place and had an early dinner and talked. He started by saying well...and I said well what...<P>H: where do we start?<P>Me: This was your idea, what did you expect us to talk about?<P>H: you told me that you had been learning some stuff...I want you to share it with me.<P>Me. Ok...you read the basic concepts what did you think?<P>H: Not sure about "The three states of mind in marriage," but the rest of it was okay.<P>Me: What about stuff about emotional needs...lovebusters...<P>H: I could see how it could work.<P>He also read some stuff that I downloaded from longevity.com about divorce and its effect on children...he thought it was all crap except where it said that when communication was good between parents effects of D were minimized and kids pretty much developed as they would in an intact family with little conflict....(he's still looking for justification that 'not being married' will not effect kids).<P>I said I know kids will react differently from me; but reality is there will be an effect however minimized...then I stopped because I didn't want to go there...<P><I>OK...I am trying really hard not to push, lead, teach, preach... I am going very slowly...weighing each word...</I><P>Me: Why don't you want to be married anymore? <P>H: I don't have the commitment I had before. I don't want to be attached to anyone. <P>Me: If you 'had' to stay married, how would you describe a good one? <P>H: I don't want to be married...I was not contributing to the marriage.<P>Me: If I had found this information 6 mths to a year ago, would you have committed to it...to working on the marriage.<P>H: I probably would have dragged my heels...<P>I repeated...okay...you are saying you don't want to be attached anymore because you don't think you were contributing to the marriage and so your commitment to the marriage is nil.<P>He said yes...in a nutshell.<P>Me: okay...that's what EN's are all about....you get what you want and need and you give me what I want and need...we both contribute to each other, to the relationship, to the marriage...<P>Then I said I'm not sure where to go from here...he said why...I said because we should be committing to meeting each other's emotional needs. What do you want the outcome to be?<P><I> I hesitated some before getting to this question...searching for right words...trying to go slowly...when H actually got 'mad' that I was going so slowly ! </I><P>He said better communication for the kids...won't meeting each others ENs help with that...<P>I said...yeah, when combined with not committing lovebusters...(which is the next questionnaire we are to fillout).<P>He also asked about the "policies." He made a sweeping statement about US not being able to fulfill them....I said why not? I am committed to change...Just because we didn't do those things in the past doesn't mean we can never do them....(basically...don't tell me what I can or cannot do...said nicely .)<P>So that's where it ended...we are going to read each others' answers...meet each others EN's and then meet again to go over lovebusters questionnaire...<P>I also gave him HN/HN book so that he could read each chapter on my 5 most important needs....<P>I have a feeling once he does this we will start having a different conversation...<P>BTW, you would be very proud of me, I made it through his rolling of eyes, huffing, not meeting my eyes, and general 'prove it to me attitude' without losing my cool. I was calm and matter of fact....<P>Then we came home and picked up boys and took them to buy some sporting equipment...need to keep them busy and active this summer or I will go nuts... !<P>What a night!<P>Cali

I am soooo proud of you!!!!!! Good job. Gray cells have been stimulated. Foot out of mouth, a real conversation. <P>Ok, no real commitment but progress is clear. You had a rational discussion with your H. H actually heard you. Is willing to read info and take questionnaire. Good. <P>Now he needs to let what you said settle in his head. H doesn't want to commit? Ok, then what part of being a father/husband can he skip out on? Which body part of his children is he not going to protect or provide for? Same for you? And what aobut himself? <P>See not commit is a dumb statement. Why? Because he can not undo his family. He can walk away from them, run away from them but never can he lose them. No matter where he goes in this world, the knowledge of his family will always follow him. Yet many a Ws makes this statement. Like it means something. Ask them what that means to not commit to one's family and they won't be able to give you a rational response. Because there is none. It is like saying I wish I was only half born. WHAT?!?!?! Not possible. <P>Anyway, for you Cali, you did good. <P>Get some rest, I should think you would be exhausted after all that. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.<BR>

Great Cali!!<P>I know it was hard but you done good.<P>Hang in there.<P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Really great job....doors are opening for you two. <P>Thanks for the update!

Happy to hear he is actually listening and thinking. hugs, aftershock

Cali - Wow. Excellent! I can't think on my feet that fast.<P>What is the best answer to, "I don't want to be married anymore. I don't want to contribute."? Is it Orchid's?<P>I know I'm going to hear this sooner or later. I bet others will, too.<P>Let's put our heads together and derive a short, eye-opening response.<P>WAT

Cali,<BR>You did a lot in only three hours! Hope you slept well after that, you sure earned it.<BR> -- Jeffers

Cali,<P>This is unexpected news, but wonderful! I haven't been on in over a week, so I am not up to date with what happened to bring this about, isn't he supposed to be moved out by now?? I'm very glad to hear that there has been such progress. Sounds like there are a few rays of light starting to poke through his fog.<P>Unfortunately my brother in law past away very suddenly of a massive heart attack at the age of 50. I have spent the entire week over with his widow (my H's sister), trying to help her with this horrible tragedy. She is just absolutely devastated. I know I would be too. <P>If there is any good thing that has come of his it has made me realize fully how much I love my H and made the problems we have faced seem like very small ones indeed. I am so grateful to have him here in my life. <P>In the end, where you worked, what house you lived in, what car you drove, whether you had an arguement last Saturday, whether or not your spouse was always perfect, those things don't matter. You miss the smell of their cologne, their arms around you, those stupid little things they did and said. You even miss the dirty socks on the floor when the one you love is gone. <P>What matters, and what will make your life worth living and remembering is our relationships with those we love... The things we do and the things we share and learn and struggle through together, the little things and the big that we say and do and give to each other. These are the things that when we look back on our lives in the end that count.<P>I pray that your H realizes that he has something so precious in you and your children, something that can so easily be taken from us in an instant. When it's gone, all those concerns he has now that seem so important, they don't matter, and time only goes forward not back. I pray he will learn to make it better instead of destroying and throwing it all away. A family, love, those are the things that life and true happiness are all about. Cherish it instead of running from it Efft. <P>Worry about how much can you give to those you love, and not how much you can take, and you will recieve so much more in the end than anyone who just takes for themselves can ever dream of.<P>God bless you and your family<P>NY<P>

Cali...<P>One lesson at a time still leads to graduation, right? Your self control is wonderful. Self paced learning is still just that...learning!! Interesting that we, as the teacher, can still learn to, huh? You did a wonderful job!! Best of luck with chapter two! Even the most stubborn students have a little light bulb that goes on and off!!<P>*Out of our greatest fears, come our bravest deeds!*<P>Trueheart