My wife has requested I tell the truth about myself to you all, that my posts are riddled with lies. I know this is childish (on my part), but there it is, I just feel like saying this, maybe that will her off my back.<P>btw maine, after I posted a reply to bmw on your thread to me, I edited it and added reply to your stuff.<P>I know this is incredibly childish way for a 50 yo man to act, but I am so angry I can hardly see straight. Yes my wife is a saint, her behaviour is exempleary, I am a useless as*hol* (just ask anyone, including the folks at MB, who have now been added to her list of folks who know I am a jerk). I cannot have a rational conversation with my w, it is a never ending tirade of innuendeo, outright disrespect, slefish demands, and character assasination....why can't I just be what you want me to be terry.....well look in the mirror.

Do you think that you two could please quit trying to justify your every thought and emotion?<P>You are not helping yourselves, or your marriage...<P>I am all for both partners posting here, but this is one of the reasons it can be difficult.<P>I know, my ex-H and I both posted, and it was messy, at the best... <P>I did the same, by the way... defended myself at every turn, and so did he. It accomplished nothing.

By the way, s_a_l, I KNOW how hard this all is, and thinker, I know your side too!<P>Infidelity CHANGES things, doesn't it? <P>I don't mean to sound harsh at all... sigh... I just see so much anger directed at EACH OTHER and not a lot of MARRIAGE BUILDING going on...<P>I really want to see your marriage SUCCEED!!! Someone has to begin the work...<P>Best wishes.

I will not post anymore. Husband has gone off the wall, and is acting childish. Like I said before, this has caused great heat between us, I will sit on the sidelines like a good wife and not say anything. I will not like what he is saying, but I will say nothing. I am done posting, I feel this is a threat to my husband. The way he is acting today is so irrational. I can't take it any more. He won, I lost. Maybe this is for the better. It was nice posting, but I am done. There are things that need to be done around here and nothing is getting accomplished today. The whole day wasted on the computer. Everyone take care and see what you can do with Sad_n_lonely. I can't do anything, as you can see by the posts. He has just gotten worse with his attitude as I have posted more and more. His last thread on lieing, took the cake. He has gone off the wall, and maybe with me not posting he will settle down. I will have to find another area to talk with people. Please take care of my husband, and help him find the path. Goodbye from thinker.

OK time to GROW up to the both of you > I have seen NO WHERE where you have been called a a**hole. YOu are both doing the he said she said crap and it is getting tired you need to do this in COUNCILING!!!!!!!!! I think you both have good points and bad ones. We do not know you personally only by what you post. You are both HURt and UNHAPPY, First step COMPROMISE to a SOLUTION!! CAn you do that. AND SNL the only thing i have said about you is that you talk your way around answering a questions with deep thought and rambling vocab, never really saying what it is that YOU feel. STATISTICS are not what we need, truth quick concise and understandable answers are.<BR>Thinker, you are hurt too, and not without fault, You do seem to pick a point and fester about it. Why cant you two START a HEALING or make a compromise?? There i am down. Build your marriage, and be adults, and stop the he said she said stuff ok, noone inhere has PICKED a side, We are all trying to fix our lives and help you in yours. We cannot help if we do not know what direction to offer the help in.<BR>MAINE<P>------------------<BR>IN the words of BOB the BUILDER!!" WE can fix it, yes we can!!!"

Ditto Nyneve, <P>Enough is enough. Perhaps both of you need to look deep inside, find out what you have contributed to the state of your marriage and then start Plan A'ing each other.<P>Thinker, I know that you have been trying to Plan A and it is very hard with what is going on. But you need to pull back and focus on yourself. There is no need to stuff your feelings but you can express in a less teaching manner.<P>SNL, you need to either commit to your marriage and admit your own faults in it, or you need to just leave and let your wife get on with her life.<P>It sounds to me like your situation is spiraling to a dangerous level.<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

SnL & Thinker,<BR>Like a festering pimple, this issue between the 2 of you is rising to a head. <P>Options: Blow and pick up the blood?<BR> Keep picking at it and let it get bigger?<BR> Medicate it, keep it clean and dry it up then <BR> discard it?<P>Ok now you know how to handle a pimple. Fixing yourselves &/or your marriage is up to the both of you. Decide and move forward. Both of you need to make your actions match your words. <P>SnL, if you have lied then yes, fess up. If you have not then don't start by telling one. Face reality man. You still sound a lot like my H. Scary, you think my H will be like you in another 10 years? Ooooh..... <P>Thinker, have that frank discussion with your H, if he decides to leave, don't lower yourself. Keep your dignity in tack. <P>Both of you need to keep your dignity in tack and by all means respect each other. <P>SnL, would you like to deal with more problems? How about if your OW turns out to be a psyco path and claims to be preg? How about if she starts asking for money every month? HOw about if her H comes after you? How about if all this gives you a heart attack and you become fully dependent on a caregiver? Hm....caregiver right now that would be WHO? Is OW prepared to be your caregiver? <P>See the above issues? They are real. I personally am dealing with most of those and the last one even that could be a reality soon since my H has been having some type of heart problems. Would you like that to be in your future? <P>I am asking you is there nothing to appreciate in your family? My H wishes he never met OW yet we are still being torn apart. This is going to make me cry right now because I have just been informed that Psyco Babble (my pet name for H's OW) may still be pregnant. She panciked earlier this last week and claimed she miscarried but she only spotted and the dummy has not gone to the doctor yet. This prompted last night's phone call which I had to find out by checking H's cell phone. This in turn prompted an upset call from me. Where is all this leading? H said that he could call the police for me looking at his work cell phone without his PERMISSION!!!! Get that? No comfort, just threats. <P>Now, in my best calm manner, how am I suppose to feel? Take it like a wall? I am very shakey now. You could give your wife the same 'pleasure'. You and my H ereally need to talk. Bet you could both give each other some real pointers at wife bashing. Oh, I need to inform you that I am no longer calm but MAD! There feel better? <P>Keep it up SnL and you could be in this position also. You may have it better with your W than you think. <P>JMHO.<BR>L.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Orchid (edited July 08, 2001).]

S_n_L and thinker...<P>Honesty is not a one way street on a post at MB...it is something within you. I agree with Nyneve that you are both looking for justifications and people to be *on your side* and tell you that you are right. Would you rather be right or happy? Recovery means being honest with each other, not us. Recovery means working together, not tattling. Recovery means you commit to doing it with each other, not in spite of each other. Look deep and search your souls for what it is you really want, both individually and as a MARRIED couple!! Take an inventory of yourselves and your marriage. Could it be that you are using MB as a vehicle for self pity, pointing the fingers of blame, and justification rather than truly learning the rules, guidelines and principles to put things back together? What is your goal? <P>*Out of our greatest fears, come our bravest deeds!*<P>Trueheart

Sorry to hear about your difficilties orchid. I am sorry anyone has to have these problems, and I don't understand why we do actually. Cripes just let people do what they want it seems, but instead we try to control each other. I will say if folks follow all the MB stuff, that is as close as it seems to come to the most productive behaviour. But we don't, we get mad, controlling and such. So why not just let ones spouse go, forget the love stuff, one wanders, and just say goodbye and start over. If love is a decision, why not decide not to love? (ok, there are kids and financial security issues, but is that love?). Anyways, I know there are no answers to this stuff, we just do what we do, which is try to persuade each other to remain in marriages, mostly cause that is what "we" want, so it does all boil down to memememe, and when we don't get what we want, we get mad. I suspect that is why you are mad, plain and simple you are not getting what you want, and you think you deserve what you want...correct?<P>well, off to get some work done today, that will help my wife some at least, she is the organized working one in the family, (which is a very good thing, someone is), maybe she will calm down some....as for me, I am one who can't sustain anger for very long, so will just go back to being depressed, guess that is better than angry. And no, I have not lied about anything on the boards, but it truly amazes me how my wife sees things so differently, I don't know what to make of it.

snl,<P>okay, i'm going to be harsh here but from what i've been reading on all your posts, it seems as though you are really miserable in your marriage and you're blaming your wife for it. you're saying that you feel like you're a hostage. you know what, quit whining and if you really are unhappy and want out, get some cajones (balls) and leave the marriage. nobody is making you stay. that is your decision. if you can't live with it move on and let your wife out of her misery as well.

SnL,<P>At least I have your attention. You can see issues based on my post. My H has not posted here so maybe I am making all this up? No, but you still have not seen my H's side. Yet you feel sorry for me. <P>Is it easier to feel sorry for someone you don't know? My H finds it easier. I don't I hurt both ways. Oh boy, I could be in constant pain right? Yes, but I choose not to. I feel pain and am satisfied that I help where and when I can. <P>Now that I do have your attention, I would like to reask my question. When does the caring for one's family stop and being in-love begin? The family unit is likened to a whole body, each has their function, responsibility and benefit. When one hurts, the entire body hurts. Now to separate a body part and throw it away (not a peice of hair or toenail), but a vital organ (brain, heart) something we only have one of, what does that do to the rest of the body?<P>Ok, there I go with my illustrations again, but I am trying to make a point. Can you explain that to me? Remember I am not your W, just another one of those confused BSs and for now a bit more fisty than your W. <P>This is not meantto get you angry just to think and respond with honesty and respect. <P>L.<BR>

SNL<P>My gosh, what is wrong with this freak'in world!!!!! Why are you continuing to hurt your wife. What has she done but be there for you. I don't understand anymore. Have you ever read the bible??? There is so much you can learn. All I hear from you is, I'LL do things when I'M good and ready!!! You must of had a terrible childhood. How does one stop loving another person after so many years? So much hurt going on in this world, why would anyone inflict pain on another person is beyond me!!! The only way you'll ever find out who really loves you is when GOD-forbid you become ill, lets see who will be there for you. OPEN YOUR EYES!!!!!

Whew!<P>I'm gone for a little while....<P>Okay SnL and Thinker...ya gotta change those tapes...one of you has to have the courage to do it or you will stay this way...<P>And, yes, it only takes a decision...and a follow through...each time you do it, it gets easier.<P>From JustPlainCali, in just plain English...<P>You have to move forward to get out of the pain...<P>Cali