his top 5:<BR>Affection<BR>Conversation<BR>Recreational Companionship<BR>Family Commitment<BR>Admiration<P>mine:<BR>sexual fulfillment<BR>financial support<BR>domestic support<BR>affection<BR>honest and openness<P>H's questionnaire indicates that I am fulfilling Family commitment and admiration EN's. I could improve Recreational companionship...I am totally missing boat on affection and conversation.<P>I have asked him "what more can I do" for recreation and conversation...he couldn't give me much...<P>As to affection...he couldn't give me anything...just said he'd try to point out when what I did was something he liked.<P>Any suggestions?<P>BTW...before we read these we were going to talk...but he got very angry after reading mine and couldn't talk about it...I think he was surprised that while I love him, he is not meeting my needs and I am and have not been happy with some things as well...<I> but this is just speculation </I><P>I think it makes him mad that I am still committed to working on it and am not just willing to 'walk' away to something new because it is not working right now...<P>I am waiting for the 'right' time to discuss these 'musings' in such a way that they are not LB's.<P>Any theories, helpful hints, etc. would be greatly appreciated.<P>Cali<BR>

Cali,<BR>Step in the right direction - that he took the time to think this through, and get into the EN Quest. Think about it, look at where you guys were - and where you are now. I am impressed that you too did it, I am at loss why he would get mad - clue me in.<P>My d-day was June 9, 2000. And, we are still working things through. I get no SF, and little affection. My H just isn't there (he is here in the house - but he is not there - get my point). It is better to Plan A and keep them in the family, than to have them go to the OW. If they do that, do Plan B. Just like SAA says. It is a battle.<P>hugs to you cali, aftershock<BR>p.s. I am a California Cowgirl (Ha, born in Oklahoma (we are friendly there), but transplanted to California in the 1st grade - San Diego area). My H and I moved back to California on July 3rd.

Hi Cali,<P>I had read somewhere, either here on MB website or in the books, that if you are meeting at least the first top two ENs of your spouse, your marriage isn't Affair proof but less likely to experience one.<P>After reading your H's ENs, I'm very interested in the idea he has Family Commitment as one of his first 5. I think this is a good thing! And knowing that you meet that need is a very good thing!<P>You're doing a good job, Cali. Just taking baby steps and going slow with this isn't easy.<P>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited July 08, 2001).]

Cali, okay, sorry I missed it - I see why you think he got mad.<P>Hang in there - don't give up!!!!! There are people here who are making their 3rd year mark - it can be done. an A can be survived.<P>hugs, aftershock

Cali,<P>It sounds like he did "play some of the old tapes" again. But, you still came away with something positive. You now know where to point your Plan A.<P>There is still a lot of anger there and YOU can't make HIS anger go away. That's what time and Plan A do.<P>Conversation and affection are "gentle" needs (I like that word). It sounds like he's around enough to work on these. Don't try to converse about weighty matters (like relationship, ENs, etc). Affection can be lot's of things: please, thank you, a fleeting touch. These are things you don't have to get in his face to do. (Sorry, obvious suggestions {-: ) <P>You say YOU want answers- that will only help you right now, not him (as you suggested chance of LB to get answers - probably stressful for him even if not an obvious LB). You might just need a cooling off period while you do plan A for a while. Things seem REALLY tense. Maybe even taking a break away from him for a day might help. (What do others think about this?)<P>He's probably going to watch you now to see if you're obsessing about meeting the needs he identified. Don't smother, please.<P>I read somewhere that anger and passion were two sides of the same coin. Someone with the ability to express intense anger also has the capacity for incredible passion.<BR>Don't give up.<P>-- Jeffers<P>P.S. Looking back at your post I realized that you could have meant by "missing the boat on conversation and affection" that you thought you were doing a good job with those, but don't know why your efforts weren't acceptable. I thought you meant you hadn't realized they were his top needs. Hmmmm.

Yep...<BR>His answers were, for both, that I did not do enough (affection and conversation)and I did not do it 'right.'<P>But he could not tell me what 'he' wanted for both...I'm not sure if it's his way of making sure I can't be able to meet that need...<P>Just a thought...<P><BR>Cali

{{{{{{{{{Cali}}}}}}}}}<P>I debated a bit on whether or not to throw in my honest opinion here. It's likely to piss off your H, (but what doesn't? hmmmmmmm) I know he is reading and I certainly do not want to do that. But in the end I decided that if I am going to try to help you understand I can't bite my tongue on my opinion here, besides, I could be wrong, and if so he's free to say so. Efft, nothing personal intended by the following, just an opinion as to where you might be based on my experience.<P>He says your missing the boat on these and he can't give you any suggestions whatsoever as to what he would like. Likely because of several reasons, and one big one that stands out to me; Have you ever noticed that if you focus on the negative to long it becomes worse than it really is? It gets hard to see the forest for the trees. <P>He's been focusing on why he is miserable and justifications for being so completely self serving and angry for so long now that he is absolutely convinced that what he sees through the fog is real, but when he stops to think about it with a questionaire that gets so specific he really can't tell you why. Well, that tells me your really not doing so bad in reality.<P>It also tells me those are the needs that he feels the OW is filling better than you and he is still in a selfish enough place I don't think he wants to give up OW, or admit that his problems or catostrophic proportions in his mind now are actually minor and fixable. <P>Telling you how to fill those needs would be like telling you how to make her not seem as wonderful anymore. Also make him feel pretty petty and shallow and guilty when he starts thinking about specific reasons why he is doing this to Eff up all your lives, you know?<P>He says <"I could improve Recreational companionship...I am totally missing boat on affection and conversation."> Well, thats' more than I had to go with from my H when I started trying to A without a questionaire at all from him. Run with it baby. Take all the ideas you can come up with yourself to fill those needs better for him, if you still want to A that is. <P>Personally at this point I'm thinking that a good B is not out of place to be honest. This guy thinks he can have his cake and eat it too. A dose of what life is like without the probably 80% of his needs or better you are really providing for him might help him get a clearer view of his "wonderful" OW and unmarried life.<P>

Cali,<P>ScaredinNY has a good point. He told you his needs, but he's not ready to let you meet them yet, so he gave you no further help.<P>Maybe it's still all about LBs and anger. He's still not sure the new Cali is permanent and he continues to test to see if old Cali comes back ("old tapes?"). <P>After a while (how long?) the anger may dissipate as he no longer gets a reaction from you. Then you get a chance to meet needs. <P>You get to pick the theories you like best.<P>--Jeffers