This is my first post. My husband and I have been married for 20 years with 2 kids. I found out about his affair one month ago. The affair was mainly an emotional affair via email. They only met one time and he swears they did not have sex. The whole thing lasted less than 5 months, but there is a huge emotional attachment since the ow was his highschool girlfriend, "his first love". He came to me and told me he was unhappy and that our marriage wasn't working. We went to counseling and the ea came out after our first session. He has sent a note asking for no contact, and he has not contacted her. We have a great counsellor who is having us follow the MB principles. He realizes that the ow is not the same person that she was in highschool and he knew even during the affair that she was not someone that he would want to be with. My problem is that my husband says he is not in love with me and doesn't believe that he was ever in love with me. He says that being with her and talking with her made him remember feelings that he had back then and that he never had those feelings for me. He says that our marriage has always been more of a business relationship. There has never been passion. He doesn't want to work on showing affection to me because he doesn't feel like it. My question is, can working on our ENs help him to love me if he really never felt love for me before? Or, could it be that he really did love me and is just blocking it right now. He is adament that he never felt romantic love for me, but I know I felt it for him and I really think there was a time he felt it for me also. I admit it has been a long time. We have both been living pretty separate lives for years and it took this to jolt us back to reality. I could use some advice or other peoples experiences with this kind of matter. It is really scary to work on this knowing that he really doesn't believe it will work.

<BR>Hello and Welcome to Marriage Builders!<P>First, I would like to share two links with you. Just click on the underlined links here, and read –><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi10_tour.html" TARGET=_blank>Tour of Marriage Builders</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000553.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome</A>. <P>Please read everything you can on this site, post and read often!! <P>I have been betrayed and betrayer, so I have the dubious honor of knowing what infidelity does from BOTH SIDES of the situation. <P>I believe in the concepts espoused here, if applied properly. One idea that has worked *wonders* for some couples is Plan A. Read about it here –><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>What Are Plan A and Plan B</A>.<P>Use what you learn here to make your marriage a safe place where you do your best to meet the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A> of your spouse,and avoid <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A> whenever possible. . When a decision must be made, use the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>POJA</A> to determine the final outcome that you can both agree upon.<P>Many couples find that counseling is VERY helpful, and the counseling provided here is excellent for several reasons; but the most important is that it goes along with the concepts here. Check it out here –> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7000_counsel.html" TARGET=_blank>Counsel Link</A><P>Again, welcome to our community, and feel free to write often and ask lots of questions!<P><B>ABOUT YOUR POST</B>: Read about Plan A, and live it, breathe it. Your situation is NOT hopeless. There have been wonderful successes here!!!!!!<BR><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>And we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino

charliegirl - don't buy his blather for a moment. I'll bet he's still not recovered from the affair and he's saying this crap to soothe his guilt. Keep talking to your counselor and start looking inward to identify the problems you brought to the marriage. Fix the problems and demonstrate them to your H.<P>Keep coming back here with questions.<P>WAT

I don't have much advice, as I am a man and I'm having a problem with my wife. So it's kind of vice versa.<P>Have you read though all the FAQ's and Articles on the Marriage Builders site? There is a lot of useful information on this site which will help you.<P>It sounds like everything is too familiar for your husband. His affair is dangerous and exciting, but he is taking for granted all the warmth and love you give him at home. His i'm not in love with you, and never have been, just sounds like an excuse for his actions to me.<P>I would have to admit that us guys are pretty visually stimulated. I think you should put plan A into place, adding to the LB as much as possible, but also do something he's not expecting. I don't really know what ... maybe a sharp new haircut, or some red underwear!!! Maybe some of the other posters here can give tips that are much more sublte than mine. Sorry, I'm only young and unexperienced!<P>I will pray for you and your husband. I know it's tough, but there are other people out there going though the same thing as you.<P>Plec.

Thanks everyone for replying. I have looked at most of the info on MB. I have read SAA and ENs books and so has my husband. You say that I should try plan A, but I thought plan A was to use to help end the affair? Am I missing something? <P>Both of us are working on each others needs (except my need for affection, which he doesn't want to work on). Otherwise, it seems to be going well except for this nagging doubt that both of us have that he never loved me in the first place. He simply cannot show any type of affection for me. He can't even walk beside me, he has to walk ahead of me, is that weird or what??? Have any of you felt that way or had your spouse say they felt that way. Most of what I have read says they no longer love each other, not that they never did. I do love him and will continue to work on his ENs. I am just so worried that if he didn't love me for all these years, what will make him love me now?

OK charlie, why do you think the EA is over?<P>Plan A can be applied for life. It's primarily an introspective examination of the problems you have contributed to the marriage, and effort on your part to correct them.<P>WAT

I think the EA is over because he admitted to it, changed his cell phone, gave me access to his work email and every day I ask him if he has contacted her or she has contacted him and he insists there has been no contact. Should I not believe him?

<B>I think the EA is over because he admitted to it, changed his cell phone, gave me access to his work email and every day I ask him if he has contacted her or she has contacted him and he insists there has been no contact. Should I not believe him? </B>[/QUOTE]<BR>Hello, Charlie,<BR> My .02 here is that you CAN believe him if he has done all these steps to help you believe him. BUT, I must add a caveat here. A person's "first love" is a *very* strong attraction....in fact when my H first left, and I talked a counselor (friend from work, a professional counselor, nonetheless), her first question to me was, "Is this woman his 'first love'?" I was stunned....what difference does THAT make??? She said it makes a world of difference. There was an "awakening" of sorts with the first love....it is VERY hard to ever get over it....<BR> Your H is just still speaking "fog-speak" - IMO, however, so just be patient, but I believe he will come around. He has taken all the right steps to show you that you could trust him. Plan A, Plan A. Get counseling, talk, communicate, do the EN questionnaire. Time, patience, love him. It will turn around, he will see that he really does love you. Of course, NOT like his "first love." that truly is a special time, and over the years, we tend to "romanticize" that person, and think they could have been our everything. If they come back into our lives, it truly is "playing with fire" to get involved with them again. He will come out of it, just takes time.<BR>I'll be praying for you both.<BR>Lupo<P>

Gosh this is scary. I knew when we got an email from a friend of hers saying that she wanted to talk to him that it would be trouble. He has been going through a real midlife crisis and I could tell he was searching for something. Then this note comes. I told my friend and she told me to just delete it. I couldn't do it though and I gave it to him. He immediately sent it to his work id and the rest is history. Boy am I dumb. I could have prevented this whole thing. <P>But then we would still be in the same position. Not meeting each others needs and living separate unhappy lives. Second guessing won't fix anything though. I will continue to work on plan A. YOu're right about the first love though. I feel like I am competing with a fantasy. She was everything to him. All he remembers about her is the positive and all he dwells on with our marriage is the negatives. It really hurts when he says he never loved me though. I could handle I don't love you anymore, but never??? How do I work on that? I can't believe how scary this is. I guess I just have to wait to see if it's really true or if he is just "in a fog" as you say. I know he is definetely in a midlife crisis and is second guessing his whole life right now. Is there anything I can do to help him? Besides praying for him that is??? Thanks for all your help

charliegirl<P>he's going to tell you this after 20 yrs. Please!!!! Ask him can he come up w/ something a little more original. My husband is saying the same thing to me, but I have an 8 page letter he wrote to me 4 yrs ago stating the opposite before OW.

I know how painful it is to hear you aren't loved. My H had an affair with my former best friend 6 years ago. I just found out that it was a PA a week ago. He lied that whole time and it is so painful. When he was in the middle of his "fling," he also told me he didn't love me, never had, married me because he felt sorry for me, and patted me on the head (on his way out the door to start his new life) and said "Don't cry, I don't want to feel sorry for you."<P>Miraculously, we are still together after a 9 month separation. Turns out he was very depressed. He doesn't remember much of this at all, says he was in a fog. He feels guilty about it now, but continued in that state for almost a year. It was hard to hang in there, but I did. I know our marriage was worth saving. But it sure is hard to sit and wait when you don't feel loved. Good luck!

charliegirl,<P>Boy can I feel for you, we must be about the same age or at least married about the same time.<P>H has had an EA for past 2 1/2 yr with old HS girlfriend, 1st love, liked what lupolady said her counselor friend told her about 1st loves.<P>H and OW supposely were engaged and she ran off before it happened. I met H shortly after that when he first joined the AF, we even talked about OW, he went home to see her before we were engaged and she had moved. H says that I feel in love with him and we got married. Now says that he never loved me like he does her, even said in front of a counselor(last time that he went to one) that I wouldn't believe how romantic it is that he can be with her as he was never that way with me. UGH!!<P>We'd been married 20 yr with 3 kids. I knew that he had had some contact over the years with her as there were 9 siblings in the family and H was good friends with many of them, however he had a business trip to where she is and he came home and said that he wants a D and isn't happy with me and wants happiness in his life as life is to short (he turned 40 in Dec) Had not seen her since 96. Just e mails and phone calls. I knew of the contact but did not know that it had progressed to an EA. Duh!<P>I read an article today in Family Circle Aug 7th Magazine about Intimacy and contentment, and how fine the line is in contentment and boredom.<P>Just wanted you to know that there are others out there with similiar stories, not matter how much the H wants you to think that their situation is the most unique in the world. Someone posted yesteday about the profile of a WS onr behavior pattern, they are all the same with just a few twist in each.<P>Yopur husband is home and is seeing a counselor and that is a big plus for you and rebuildiing a better marriage.<P>My one suggestions is don't beat yourself up about passing on the e mail to your H you were being honest and trustworthy (You should be able to be this way with someone after 20 years), he should've worked harder to protect your marriage, that is on him but don't beat him up with it. Don't ask daily if he has contacted OW or she him, that would be a love buster in most peoples books. Don't want to do that.<P>Take care read and post, there is lots here to be gained. God's blessings, Dawn

Don't forget Dr. Harley's workbook on Rebuilding Romantic Love!<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6090_step.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6090_step.html</A>

Charliegirl,<BR>This is too weird. I thought I was alone and our situation was unique. Guess not. My husband said that he never loved me 'that way'. So I got out the dozens of letters he sent me when we were in college and it turns out the fog must be obscuring his memory. I'm lucky, I have proof. For those of you who don't have letters to prove that it was once there, remember that those in an affair aren't thinking straight and that love doesn't die.

Plecostomous,<BR>About guys being very visual. I started dressing nicely, bought some hair color, and even got my nipple pierced. He just said he wishes I'd done it a year ago. He says he loves me all the time and even hugs me now, but he is addicted to this woman. My husband and I both turned 40 this year and she is barely 21, 4 years older than our oldest child. How do I compete with that?<BR>

<B><BR>We'd been married 20 yr with 3 kids. I knew that he had had some contact over the years with her I read an article today in Family Circle Aug 7th Magazine about Intimacy and contentment, and how fine the line is in contentment and boredom.</B><P>This is amazing! So many similar stories.... we are married 20 (3 weeks before he moved out) my H;s A is with old G/F - I don't know HOW old - he just described it as that, someone he had a "fling" with many years ago & "it didn't work out" DUH!!! AND NOW IT WILL?!?!?! Is it me, or is it the Moose Brain Worms???<P>Just wanted you to know that there are others out there with similiar stories, not matter how much the H wants you to think that their situation is the most unique in the world. Someone posted yesteday about the profile of a WS on behavior pattern, they are all the same with just a few twist in each.[/b]<BR>Exactly my point! We are here all in similar situations. I have racked my brain trying to see if "a fling years ago" could have happened while we were married....I don't know. There was one time when he was "sorta" infatuated with someone, he was running to her house, doing things for her, he told me about it all....I didn't take it to be much (never any large blocks of time I couldn't account for). In fact, I thought the whole thing was funny at the time! His sons lived with us at that time (they were teen=agers then) and they were SO angry at him!! They would say to me, "L, look what he's doing! Stop him, or tell him he shouldn't go there" I just laughed! Hey, if he wants to go, LET HIM GO!! (I was younger myself, and believed that if my H ever had an affair, I was OUTTA THERE). It was never a full-blown EA, or anything, he just enjoys helping people, and she let him. Then, he tried to do a big job, like laying tile in her house, and F***ed the whole job up, and she got pi$$ed off and kicked him out of there! He came home w/tail between his legs.....funny to me!<BR>Anyway, the point of my story, now I think it was HER, and now she wants to try again?!? I guess she's older and lonelier now. But what a LEECH!!! She STILL can't find a guy after what? 10 years? YUCK.<BR> And he forgot how abusive she became to him when he couldn't do things exactly the way SHE wanted it done?!? DOUBLE YUCK.<BR> Let the "first lovers" go at it!! Times have changed...they have changed....maybe gained a little weight... teeth in a jar, or farts in bed, or hacking, yacking cigarette coughing -spitting up, whatevers....it'll disgust them, cause it's not so new and exciting and invigorating as they remember! It'll happen. <BR>Lupo<P><BR>P.S. I agree - don't beat yourself up about passing on the e mail to your H you were being honest and trustworthy (You should be able to be this way with someone after 20 years), <p>[This message has been edited by lupolady (edited July 09, 2001).]

It sounds like your husband is having a midlife crisis to me. I know I never really believed that there was such a thing. But our counselor insists that my husband has 2 things going on. One, the marriage problem, which both of us need to work on. Also, a midlife crisis, that I cannot really help him with. He needs to resolve that on his own. It will take time. My husbands crisis escalated when our 19 year old nephew moved in with us. This kid looks just like my husband did at 19. He acts the same too. My husband started wanting to do everything with him, leaving our family out. Then the old girlfriend made contact. Timing couldn't have been worse. <P>I think that they are just looking for something to make them feel happy and young again. For your husband it was a young woman. For mine it was the first love. We need to work on fixing what we did wrong in the marriage, but it is up to them to work on their emotional and mental stability. <P> My husband does understand that he is in a midlife crisis, but he really doesn't believe he ever loved me and he wants to be happy and doesn't think he can ever be truly happy with me. Not like he was with her! I try to remind him that he was 16 -18 at the time and his hormones and emotions were heightened then but he still thinks he is settling if he stays in a marriage that doesn't give him those feelings. He is trying though, and hopefully some feelings will come if we work on it. <P>

<B>It sounds like your husband is having a midlife crisis to me. </B>[/QUOTE]<P> Oh, yeah, MLC time! My H is also having his...he's 55. BUT not working, and feeling not-so-good about that....not bringing an income. Even tho I never bothered him about it, we knew about a job opening in just a few months that would be perfect for him, if he would just hold out for it.<BR> So now what? He's with HER and he's still not working!! AND THAT'S OK WITH HER?!?!?!? I don't get it. I was willing to work with it, didn't bother me, I understood what had happened....he said he didn't want ME to support him. But now SHE IS?!?!?! What did I miss?<BR> Also, not paying HIS bills, which will eventually affect my credit, since we are still legally married. Talk about being in the fog. He seems to think he can just ignore all his bills, and they'll go away??? Only because when he was here, I took care of all this....I know she's not, cause I have checked up on soem of them, and they're not being paid. Also, he had his phone # changed to her house, so bill collectors will call him there, instead of here. I don't mind that, BUT HOW could he?? I mean, isn't she gonna CARE about all those overdue calls? You KNOW how those collectors get when they want their money....what kind of sick game is this? He's gonna get worse in debt, and she's gonna abuse him over his lack of income? <P>Am I missing something?<BR>Lupo