I don't know if I LB'd or not but I didn't respond in anger. I simply told him I loved him and wanted him to recommit to our marriage and to our recovery. He says he doesn't believe in the marriage or recovery...he went on to say that he's so angry at me, deep down he blames me for the A and driving him to it. I simply nodded and asked him again to reconsider the option of recovery. I'm out of energy right now and sinking fast. I even asked him for a year to commit 150% to the marriage. He says he's through with any more effort to our relationship. We have a 2-year old who loves her father and I'm fervently trying to save our family but it just seems hopeless. HELP?

Hey, keep your chin up. You know that he says this today and tomorrow it will be different. Is your H still living in the home? My H, tells me the same thing, he loves me and cares about me, but he's not ready to come home. He also says he's not ready to try and that he doesn't care anymore. I know it's really tough to deal with, but remember he's not thinking rationally. Don't respond with anger just keep cool and try to be calm about it. I know it's easier said then done.I only wish I could heed my own advice. <BR>Good Luck to you,<BR>Cybil

Hi Cybil, Yes, my H is still at home but not for long, I don't think. Thanks, you're right, they do "waffle" well but I need to be reminded. It is so hard to keep up with them and now, I think he's still in touch with the OW (although she's overseas). When was your d-day?

I think anger is often at the root of the marriage problems. I know my H was mad at me about things that happened along time ago- we've been married 15 yrs. I thought our marriage was okay though he was acting distant. Come to find out OW pressured him to leave me and marry her! So out came him telling me,"I dont love you anymore, I 'm going to leave you" He moved out for a month to 'think' he ended up staying at OW's condo.(she's a single coworker desperate to get married how convenient huh? Anyway he moved back in a month later then waffled back and forth for 2 more months before finally saying he wanted to make our marriage work out. During that time he even filed for divorce on me then cancelled it. OW pressured him to do it but he claimed it was all for his own reasons at the time. We even ended up 6 mo with no intimacy or kissing. Yet now we are reconciling. Hang in there- it aint over till the very fat lady sings. lifeismessy

Dear LIM, Anger is definitely the problem which H says he can't resolve or get over. Although I'm in Plan A, I get really needy sometimes which isn't good and I'm sure pushes him away. I want him so much to tell me that he'll try. I just don't want to hear that "he and I" are at different stages at which point I just sit there and smile. I continue to say to him that I hope he's wrong about everything. Is that LB? I applaud you your strength to get through your ordeal and being able to share your successes. Good luck with everything.

Terrified- thanks for your kind words. I tell what I've gone thru to encourage others- because believe me when I was going thru it I often saw NO hope some days. I know how that feels.My H denied he had any long standing anger towards me but I knew he did because when the A was developing over the course of this last year he grew increasingly critical and disrespectful to me. He is not one to express his feelings to me very much so I think he buried this anger and didnt even realize how much it was affecting our marriage. He would say our marriage is 'hopeless' and that it was 'over in his head' before the A turned physical with his coworker. That he was ' not in love with me anymore' that SHE woke up his true feelings etc etc! One time I even caught him telling her on the phone in our laundry room- "I love you but I have to work things out at home." Then he opened the door and I was standing on the other side!!!! I was too shocked to even yell at him! I too was too dependent on my H- As part of plan A I tried to be more independent and re-did my clothes and makeup and tried not to ask him too many questions during his confusion. I hung out with my friends alot for emotional support and came here. There is a book from the library by Dean Delis- called The Passion Paradox- it would be good for you to read. It goes into alot of specifics about how power imbalances can be improved upon. I found that what helped me with my H was emphasizing to him that he was CHOOSING to stay out of our home and that love is a CHOICE, not just a feeling that you either have or never have again. I dont think telling him he's wrong will convince him- in that kind of fog they are so confused they go strictly by their current emotional state. Thats how my H could file papers on me one day claiming he was SURE Thats what he wanted and counseling couldnt help us- then the next day be crying and tell me he was making the worst mistake of his life and he went to counseling that day! See how their emotions rule their thoughts? Our counselor urged H to get control of his thoughts because they lead to his feelings which lead to his actions. lifeismessy PS I would tell your H that counseling CAN help him get in touch with his anger and work thru it in an effective way- he's probably got it buried way down inside himself

<B>My H denied he had any long standing anger towards me but I knew he did because when the A was developing over the course of this last year he grew increasingly critical and disrespectful to me. He is not one to express his feelings to me very much so I think he buried this anger and didnt even realize how much it was affecting our marriage. He would say our marriage is 'hopeless' and that it was 'over in his head' before the A turned physical </B><BR>LIM - this is exactly what is going on w/my H. He had played out the whole "our M is over" tape in his head, and listened to OW and family telling him to D me, until it seemed the most natural and RIGHT thing to do. <P>He is now gone 7 1/2 weeks, and NO desire to see or talk to me. That's how angry he still feels towards me. The only "good" sign was that he was genuinely surprised to hear from me (during our ONE and only talk in all this time) when I told him I needed him, loved him, he responded he "didn't think I'd care" if he left! He didn't ask me, though before he did this how I'd feel. He had it all worked out his head, and was sure this was his only option.<P>Sometimes I think my H will NEVER come back and say he wants to work on our M, cause he thought and thought it through before he left, and was SO sure he wanted out of our M, and now wants D. He is the kind to really THINK carefully before doing anything. Even maps out a route to take, and what time to leave the house, etc. if we are going on a trip. I KNOW he worked long and hard on this before he actually went to an attorney, packed and left. I'm so afraid he will never see the light - just keep running farther and farther away when he realizes what a monumental mistake he made.<P>At least I should be glad he never said very mean things, like "I never loved you" Ihate you, or others. He is too kind to do that to me. He thought this was a good thing (to just pack and leave) for both of us.<P>BTW - LIM - you say "it ain't over till the 'very fat lady sings'?" Well my OW IS THE *VERY FAT LADY* and I DO mean VERY!!!!!!!! LOL - what IS that man thinking????<BR>Lupo<BR>

<B>My H denied he had any long standing anger towards me but I knew he did because when the A was developing over the course of this last year he grew increasingly critical and disrespectful to me. He is not one to express his feelings to me very much so I think he buried this anger and didnt even realize how much it was affecting our marriage. He would say our marriage is 'hopeless' and that it was 'over in his head' before the A turned physical </B><BR>LIM - this is exactly what is going on w/my H. He had played out the whole "our M is over" tape in his head, and listened to OW and family telling him to D me, until it seemed the most natural and RIGHT thing to do. <P>He is now gone 7 1/2 weeks, and NO desire to see or talk to me. That's how angry he still feels towards me. The only "good" sign was that he was genuinely surprised to hear from me (during our ONE and only talk in all this time) when I told him I needed him, loved him, he responded he "didn't think I'd care" if he left! He didn't ask me, though before he did this how I'd feel. He had it all worked out his head, and was sure this was his only option.<P>Sometimes I think my H will NEVER come back and say he wants to work on our M, cause he thought and thought it through before he left, and was SO sure he wanted out of our M, and now wants D. He is the kind to really THINK carefully before doing anything. Even maps out a route to take, and what time to leave the house, etc. if we are going on a trip. I KNOW he worked long and hard on this before he actually went to an attorney, packed and left. I'm so afraid he will never see the light - just keep running farther and farther away when he realizes what a monumental mistake he made.<P>At least I should be glad he never said very mean things, like "I never loved you" Ihate you, or others. He is too kind to do that to me. He thought this was a good thing (to just pack and leave) for both of us.<P>BTW - LIM - you say "it ain't over till the 'very fat lady sings'?" Well my OW IS THE *VERY FAT LADY* and I DO mean VERY!!!!!!!! LOL - what IS that man thinking????<BR>Lupo<BR>

It seems like this has been a tough week for most...I wonder why but thank my lucky stars I found this site. It has kept me "alive". That may sound dramatic but hats off to all of you especially STL, Orchid, WAT, Nyeve, H, zorweb...I've been acting especially needy this week and my persistence has driven my H further away as he puts it. He keeps saying that I should prepare for his departure because he's not staying and he's even more convinced after this week, etc. etc. I just feel so hopeless and I feel like I've lost the battle.

Dear Terrified,<P>It sounds like you H is in a deep fog. It seems to be common for the WS to blame the BS for them having an A. Excuse me, did you force him to do it? NO. I think this is the way they justify their guilt. <P>My H also told me he just didn't see anyway that this marriage could work out, he never did say he wanted to work on it. Still doesn't. But I just keep Plan A'ing and slowly he softens up.<P>As long as he is in your house it is much easier to Plan A. I don't think telling him that you love him, and want to work on your marriage is an LB. You said you didn't say it angrily. <P>It's very hard to constantly Plan A when you are not getting anything in return, but you have to keep at it. Just be as nice as you can. Keep strong. <P>Good Luck<P>

Terrified:<P>This stuff is rough, no? I'm with you in that this board has certainly helped keep me sane, along with a very select few close friends.<P>I can completely empathize with you... My W has said those exact same words to me, and at the time, I reacted with pure emotion and pain/anger. That is to say... LB!!! Well I've managed to transcend all of that and make my own choice: that I am not going to exit this relationship in any other way than my own... And my way is to believe in the marriage, to believe in weathering the storm in search of a stronger bond, to be the best person I can, both for myself, and my wife, during this time of lunacy. In short, I've committed myself to Plan A.<P>Since I've become stronger, my W has switched to being unsure of herself, her life, her choices. We are separating so that she may have time to herself. Am I foolishly enabling her A with the OM? Maybe so, but the sep is also for me to work on... me. Plus, refusing to separate would, I think, send her over the edge. She says she really needs her space.<P>She says this is what she has to do right now, and that it may not be forever. She may be telling me what I want to hear, but you know what? It doesn't matter.<P>Here's why: How do I want to come out of this? Stronger. Better. Positively. I can either look at this as an opportunity to improve myself, or as a way to let anger, fear, and depression take control over my life. I choose the former.<P>I love my W more than anything in the cosmos. She's everything to me -- she makes my heart leap up like the ol' "rainbow" from the poem. I'd give everything I have in the world just to have one night back, to just be able to go out on a date with her... To talk and laugh like we used to, to see her smile at something I said, to watch her read a menu, anything. It can truly crush me to consider the possibility that that may never happen again. But in order to move ahead, I HAVE to consider that possibility. I have to not hide from certain thoughts. I have to accept the reality of the situation. And the very best thing that I can do is make myself more like the person she fell in love with. Why not do this? It might make her come out of the fog, and if not, how does it not help me? When she does come out of the fog (and one day, they all do), who is it that I want her to see when she looks at me?<P>I know I'm rambling, and I know that what you're going through is not easy. You feel so hamstrung... I get the best results from keeping quiet and letting her come to me. Whenever I decide, "I need to try to do something, to fill an EN" I set myself up for trouble.<P>You've got to just let them know how you feel about ending the A and working on the M, and let them know you're confident in your feelings. Once they know that, all you can do is Plan A and chin up.<P>Be strong, and act strong. If you're not feeling strong, fake it until you really are. Strength and confidence in yourself gets NOTICED. Let them notice, but don't let them know that YOU noticed them noticing.<P>Believing in Plan A is believing in yourself. You can do it.<P>Take care,<BR>zen<P>[This message has been edited by zen (edited July 10, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by zen (edited July 10, 2001).]