Okay, so regardless of whether it was right/wrong. I met with my H last night even though I am in plan B. I just had to, I can't explain it other than I truly believe it was divine intervention. 3 times I tried to thwart God's plans, by the 4th, I knew something was up and even though I may have been totally wrong, I had to. I thank God he sent me in the right direction.<P>Oh, where do I begin. Let's see, OW is gone, went back to NY. She has been gone for 2 weeks now (YES!). H says he did not end it with her, just left it at "they are on hold until he figures out what he's doing". He still has feelings for her. Bit** took a job at my H's school starting in September, but thanks GOD! It only lasts until December, then she is gone to Colorado forever!!! Yeah. <P>H says this proves what he did was not just for her, it would have happened anyway, maybe she was the catalyst, but it wouldv'e happened regardless (him moving out). I said, yeah right. He is not going out with OW on Saturday, he is going with some NEW female friends he's made at his job. It's a group thing. He said they know he is seperated, one of them likes him, but he doesn't like her. He just flirts with them and if nothing happened with OW, who he did like, nothing is going to happen with these women. H insists that the only thing he and OW did was kiss (remember the whole, can't get it up incident?).<P>Okay, so H tells me that he is too proud to ever go back. He says that I would need to do something to make it up and that it would be pretty easy. I said "Are you kidding me? After everything you've put me through, YOU want ME to court you and go after you? I barely have any love left for you as it is!" He said, no that's not what I meant, I mean I am too proud to admit I was wrong, but there are things you can do to make me come back. He says I can either trap him into coming back or move away and he will follow. Yes, he actually said this. <P>I said, I will NOT trap you, if you come back it has to be because YOU want ME, I am your #1! I also said, I'm not just gonna up and move without knowing for sure that we are back together and things will work out. Then he says, "Well the problem is I don't really want you right now. But, I've been thinking and I think if you start dating other people that I will get real jealous and that will give me the kick I need." I'm like, Are you serious? I started telling him about a guy at work that I think likes me and kissed me on the cheek and his heart started pounding and he said it made him jealous and he's sure if I start to date that it would be what he needs to want to come back.<P>I don't know. We went on to talk about OW and I said how difficult it must be to live like that (not knowing what he's doing, having her waiting for him), he said how's that different from what I am doing. I said, I have no choice, you choose to live like that. He said he knows he would need to end it completely with her and that she knows to expect this very well may happen (he would get back with me). BUT, he wants to wait until he WANTS me back before he does this. I said, it doesn't work like that. Usually, if you have to give up OW, feel withdrawal, then you'll want me back. I explained alot about what's in SAA, he said he knows we'd need a plan for recovery. He'd be willing to read it once he wants me again and chooses to move forward. I explained the concepts and how what he was proposing won't work. We agreed I would go off and think about what he said (dating other people), and he would think about SAA and the stuff in it...<P>Get this, I also said, what if I start liking the other people I date, this is a major possiblity. What if I don't want you anymore? He says, it won't be any different than it is now only the roles will be reversed and he will be courting me and trying to get me back. I said, won't you just use this to justify getting back with OW? He said, no way, if you did this, I would want you so bad and I'D be doing everything to get YOU back.<P>He kept talking about not being able to go back to the house, he said he'd be willing to switch schools so he wouldn't have to see OW in the fall, or we'd have to take extraordinary measures so he couldn't see her (I explained how it would be going back to square one and that stuff). I told him, going to the house, where we live, what we do, that stuff is all irrelavent. Once we decide we are going to do this and work on our marriage, then we talk, we make decisions that are right for BOTH of us and we get on. That other stuff doesn't matter. He seemed to like that.<P>So, I am thoroughly confused. Yes, I do know him better than anyone. Right now, he wants to come back, but he won't admit it and he says I could just ignore him completely and he'll just keep doing what he's doing (working tons of hours and running away from everything). He said he could go on like that forever. Yeah right.<P>He also said, he's not going to be dating ANYONE right now and that I don't have to worry about that. He wants me to go on his school dig with him (he's going for archaeology) and we talked about alot of fun stuff we can do. <P>The other thing that really bugs me is about the mental disorder. I really think he has a problem. The counselor said they thought he had a disorder and to get tested. Bipolar runs in his family and he has SO MANY of the symptoms. Just yesterday, he says he knows he's not crazy cuz' he feels fine now. He's on an adrenaline rush and feels wonderful, sleeps well and is on top of the world. I'm like HELLO!!! That is very bad, that IS what bipolar IS!! You were just completely depressed 2 weeks ago and now this. But, he insists he's fine and won't get help... I don't know what to do here. That has to be a condition for him coming back. It's one of the main reasons we're in this mess to begin with!!<P>He did say he will take the anger management and parenting classes for his temper with the kids. That's a plus.<P>So, I don't know what to do. My H is weird. He is totally honest with me and has always been good at telling me what's going on in his head, even if he doesn't understand it. (there was one time he lied to my face. I have trouble getting over this. It was about kissing OW. At the time I was extremely suicidal and he said he couldn't tell me because he thought I'd kill myself. Looking back, I know for sure, I would have, so it's probably a good thing and I try to discount it although it is still hard...).<P>Okay, so what the hell do I do now?? Go to plan A, plan B, start dating people, pretend to date someone? Anyone interested in playing "pretend" with me for a while? I'm half-serious here. I know I filled lots of his EN's last night, so you guys can yell at me. But, I think it was important that I do this. <P>Oh, I also told him at some point he has to take responsiblity for what he has done to me and the family. He says, he knows. He also said he still cares about me, and he showed alot of affection to me. He was at the house for 4 hours, ate supper with us, spent time with the kids and me.<P>I am so mad that he gave me hope again without committing to anything. I know this is a step in the right direction, but where I go from here, I have no clue...

HBH - this makes MY head spin - I can't imagine what your's is doing.<P>I have only one suggestion - make an appointment with Steve. I just cannot process the "no admittance admittance" and the need to feel jealous. Sounds like BIG TIME moose brain worms. I honestly don't know what else to say. I hope others do.<P>WAT

wow. what a story. <P>I'm glad you met with him. I knew you needed to hear whatever he had to say. BUT, I wouldn't do ANYTHING he wants you to! Can we say Control? Don't be his puppet. He thinks he can just snap his fingers and you jump? My WH often thinks like that too - like "see if you can figure this one out" - like everything is a game to him - like those movies where you have to figure out the other person and play the right cards to get their attention. I feel like my H is waiting to see if I can really figure out how to get him back, and he's laughing because I can't. But I'm laughing now because I'm not playing. He has to decide what he wants.<P>Anyway, I would think you need to stick to your guns and stick with Plan B. I know you'll get more advice. You've given him Plan A. He knows what he would be missing if he gave you up forever. Don't play his games.<P>My opinion..... <P>------------------<BR>Faith1

I think he's having a ball playing head games with you. He needs help. I think you should get on with your life, watching out for yourself and your kids and maybe give him a second thought if and when he grows up.

Enjoy your good feelings right now.. but stay cautious.<P>It sounds to me like your plan Aing and Bing is affecting him now. But I really don't know where you should go from here. Do what you think is best for YOU. Could you handle moving back into plan A? And for how long?<P>Do NOT date anyone.. do NOT pretend to either. Ohhhh.. the temptation is overwhelming, isn't it? But as you already told him, he wants you to do that to justify what he is doing. You are better than that. Remember that. Quite simply, should he ask you if you are dating anyone, just tell him that you can't handle the thought of doing that when you're in love with him. Now, should there be any situations where you find men eyeing you (do not put yourself into that situation.. by going to a meat market bar or anything..LOL), sure, tell him about it! Just remember, you want to watch YOUR actions. If you stay strong, your H will find that strength in you and grow as well.<P>You obviously did the right thing in meeting with your H. See? Going with the gut is where it's at! <P>Karen<BR>

Hi,<P> My advice would be to NOT start dating. I too feel it could be the excuse he needs to justify his relationship with the other woman.<P> My wife tried the same thing. She wanted me to date other women, and her as well. I told her no way. When she found she couldn't justify what she was doing because I was also seeing others(which I would not do) she decided to accuse me of having affairs of my own. Then she even said that because I had given a female friend a ride, when we were dating 20 years ago, I had messed around as well.<P> I say don't give him the chance to do that to you. Yes it would be easy, but it could be a disaster as well. <P> As for making him think you are dating, but actually not, in his mind what would the difference be? Why chance it?<P> Then again....who knows? Not me.

I think your story is fascinating. I could easily imagine my W saying something along similar lines, like "I need you to make me want you..." I don't think he's intentionally playing a game with you... I think he's just trying to articulate the problem. But I agree with the others that I would not try to reason with him and date him. I would also not date others... but I would make myself as attractive as possible to others without dating them.<P>Best to you,<BR>zen

Well, I just spoke with my H. I sent him an email that I was worried he was just using this as an excuse to justify what he did and that I was worried he would use it against me if we were to ever divorce (oh, he dated but so did I, so it nullifies what he did in court).<P>He called me as soon as he read it. He said "maybe I really miss the life that we had and I just want to get it back." I said, and you think me dating other people will give you the kickstart you need and he says "yes."<P>I said it's hard to do that. He said, it doesn't have to be, just go out and enjoy yourself. I said, but it's not right to date other people, I'm MARRIED. He was just silent. I said, I know it's hard for you to argue, but it's the way I feel. He said, he just wanted to let me know he wasn't out to get me or justify anything.<P>Guys, my H is reaching out and trying to make himself want me again and he is trying to get my help. Yes, he may have a weird way of getting it done, but I really think that is what's going on. This isn't a game. I've played games with this man before. This is what he truly believes will help, as weird as it may sound. Maybe it is still fogese and he's not thinking clearly, but it's not a game to him.<P>The weird thing is that I've gotten the advice: If you really want your H back, pretend you don't want him anymore, start going out with someone else, you'll see him turn around really fast - I'm no longer waiting around for him, he may actually lose me!!. Has anyone else heard that before? I thought the person was crazy when they said it, but now after talking to my H I am not so sure...<P><p>[This message has been edited by hurtbyhubby (edited July 10, 2001).]

HBH,<BR>I cant really make sence out of his ideas, and I agree that your best bet is to call Steve Harley and have a session with him to get yourself on tract with a plan. Right now you are all over the road... date, plan B, see him, You need to know what your plan is and stick to it.<P>As far as the dating and moving on. Well, that is what plan B is supposed to be without the dating. You detqaching from him, moving on with your life and letting him deal with his own stuff without you. Instead he has turned it into a convoluted game where he trys to get you to talk to him and you spend all your time obsessing over what he is really thinking. I think you could go on like this along time if you play along.... he will keep coming up with more requirements for you to do to make him fall in love with you. Stop dancing to his tune... take your own path. Make a plan and stick to it. I know this is hard. I wish you the best.<BR>Lora

HbH,<P>I agree with you. Your husband is serious that he wants you to date. This is a very common and classic ploy of the WS. I think it has it’s own chapter in the WS Handbook. The purpose of this is to lessen his feeling of guilt and to justify his affair. Don’t even go down that road. <P>If you start dating then the level of emotional garbage that you and your husband have to clean up when he returns will be even deeper then it is now.<P>You really should make an appointment with Steve. You are in over your head. Your husband continues to play mind games with you and you continue to play along. This is only prolonging your hurt. He’s going to do this again and again. What he told you today makes him no closer to reconciliation then he was before. <P><BR>---------------------------------<BR>STL is on travel. I’m on the phone with him right now. He asked me to say the following to you:<P>He's scamming her. Yes he is sincere because if you start dating then he's not longer guilty in his fogged up mind. He is using this as an indirect means to justify his actions with the OW.<P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Dear HbH,<P>You and I have run with similar patterns. I feel mine is a lot farther down the 'bad' path than yours. Yes, my H said the same things about 4 months ago. Told me to date others and even gave me a name. OW even asked if I went out with H's friend. YUCK!!!! <P>Reason: H said it might make him jealous and he want ot come back. In a demented sense it might sound ok to them or it is a manipulative plot to go do more stuff. I vote for the 2nd. <P>Take to Steve. Making you go crazy is not going to help your H. What will that do to the other person? Almost makes the H sound like those peeping toms? What do they call the kind of people that like to watch? H used to look at pornography, liked to watch. Hm.... Made me sick. That wasn't love that was sick. <P>HbH, don't give into this and lower your standards. He needs to love and respect you. Date you is ok, he has no right to encourage you to date others. <P>L.<BR>

I agree with Zorweb & Orchid. I believe that you are in over your head and your H is still playing mind games with you. The problem is that you need to take control of the situation by not allowing him to control/manipulate you anymore.<P>I think that this meeting with your H wasn't beneficial at all. Your H is attempting to relieve his guilt by encouraging you to do something immoral. He is keeping you on a merry-go-round of confusion. You can choose to get off this ride. Don't allow your H anymore control.<P>My advice would be to stick with a strict Plan B and call Steve Harley. I think that he can best advise you.

From what I've read, it sounds as if your H likes the 'chase' and he may be trying to tell you that in so many words. The problem is then, when he gets you back, will he still want you? A vicious cycle. Are you willing to go back and forth the rest of your life?

HBH...<P>Ok honey...I need YOU to make me want you...I need you to date other people...I need my life with you back but YOU have to do something to make me want to come home...I need you to make me start wanting you again...<P>Do you see a common thread here? Do you understand what he is saying? The game playing, manipulating, controlling head case is putting all the responsibility here on YOU, the BS!! If YOU dont do things just the right way, he wont want you, he wont come home, your marriage wont last. EXCUSE ME???? Talk about classic absolving himself of all responsibility and shifting any blame for failure? If he has a problem, it is sure a full blown one. If not he is one of the all time classic manipulators I have ever seen. <P>Please, HbH, dont fall for this and dont do anything foolish. You are best to sit tight, make an appt with Steve, and not do anything. It is one thing to have hope, it is quite another to be manipulated into something there is no defense for. "Yes your honor, I did date while we were married....at my husbands request so he could become jealous and want me again"....somehow I don't think that would be a viable defense in a custody battle or divorce case....LOL.<P>Keep the faith!!<P>*Out of our greatest fears, come our bravest deeds!*<P>Trueheart

Some thing that TrueHeart just said hit home with me.<P>Re: “I need you to make me start wanting you again.”<P>OMG my XH used to say exactly those words to me. And I thought he made them up himself. Guess they are in the WS Handbook after all. I bought into that for a while. But what I found is that no matter what I did, it was not enough for him. I tried keeping a cleaner house, cooking better meals, being sexier, long hair, short hair, taking a back seat to him, and on and on. There was always some hoop I had to jump through, some way in which I could not quite ever make him want me. Then one day I realized that I could do nothing to make him love me. Either he was willing to do the work to make our marriage work or he was not. I found out that he was not willing.<P>Don’t buy into this convoluted logic. He is trying to set you up to relieve his own feelings of guilt. As soon as you go out with some one he will do one of two things. <P>Either he will then say that your marriage is definitely over because you betrayed him. Then he will go to his OW. After all you cheated on him and he never did really. (Remember he could not get it up.)<P>Or he will return to you. Tell you that he is no more guilty then you because you had an affair too. So you have not right to be hurt or upset. And he will tell you that to keep him you have to keep jumping through those hoops. If dating some one will make him want you. What is the next step? Swinging?<P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare