Newwoman, I was reading your post to Thinker and also to her H. I like your style! You've got guts! I like to think I will know what my "bottom line" is, too. <P>Unfortunately, *I* am the "emotional" one and my WH is the "Logical" one. That is why this is all so dam* confusing! He would NEVER do anything that didn't require him analyzing it from 18 different directions....apparently he DID. Apparently he decided that he needed to self-destruct TWO lives in order to find some "happiness" - some "peace" - some "love" - I dunno, you fill in the word. I don't get it. I don't know why it's so much easier to RUN AWAY rather than just sit you down, look each other dead in the eyes, and say "We've got a big problem here." Not only is he a logical one, he's also EXTREMELy shy of confrontation. Strange combination...makes it impossible to know what the heck he's thinking lots of times. <P>Any pearls of wisdom for us "emotions running us" folks from one who can think things through and LOGICALLY & know what to do? Also, HOW can a man so logical DO something this incredibly stupid, selfish, insane (more adjectives).<BR>After 20 years, I thought I had him figured out. <P>Guess not. <P>Lupo

OMG! Lupo, if I didn't know any better I would've thought I wrote that post. My H is very logical and analytical. It takes us a year to buy a car. H has told me that he wasn't thinking or that he was just thinking of himself. I feel like a total idiot. H also avoids confrontation. I don't understand why he couldn't just come to me either. He says that he was confused and had an emptiness that he didn't know what it was. It's kinda wierd how similar some of our stories are. I wish there was a blueprint that we could buy to explain things. Sorry I'm not the "thinker" you wanted to hear from. But, I am an emotional comrade. Good Luck.<P>NM

Dear Lupolady,<P>I am so sorry I did not answer your post immediately. I have had to be away from the site for a week. I don't post often because I am so uncertain the I am in any position to give any good advice.<P>You see, my logic has driven me crazy for over a year. My WS admitted to having a PA in our first counseling session on 9/14/00, but said it was over, and I believed him. We continued separate counseling. Things seem to improve until 1/01. He moved out for 3 weeks in March to "find" himself. My position from the beginning was that separation meant that he had given up, was not what I wanted and I would divorce him.<P>On April 25, 2001, after he came home and I asked him to read some articles on this site, he admitted that he had had a 4-month affair with an employee. He broke it off in August because she began asking for a committment. They had physical contact on one additional occassion in October 2000, but continued thier "friendship". His plan was to get me into counseling to "get me healthy", live up to his committment to give us 6 months to make the marriage work. During this time, although he continued to go to counseling to work on "his issues", he refused to work on our marriage. He moved out almost exactly 6 months after counseling started.<P>He has now disclosed that he moved out to show the OW that he was committed to leaving me. Of course, by then, OW had already dated a couple of other guys and was at the time "involved". Jealousy began taking over. Lucky for me, however, he is beginning to see that she is not what he wants.<P>I had no idea what was happening and was attempting to make sense out of something that is completely senseless. I found this site about 2 months ago and all of the abuse I took now makes alot of sense.<P>I told my WS recently that the thing that hurts me the most is that I knew in my heart that if she had been willing, he would have chosen her. He told me honestly that yes, he would have chosen her, but would have realized the mistake and begged me to take him back.<P>I have alot of nerve giving advice about "bottom lines". I gave mine, if you move out, I'll divorce you (before I found this site). I didn't. I have taken the same kind of abuse many BS on this site have taken, abuse I never thought I would take. I am actually greatful I didn't know at the time the P/A was ongoing. I don't know how people here do it. <P>I have found the meaning of unconditional love. My husband sees it and is envious of it. However, he is only very slowly getting off the fence.<P>He has become a believer in "radical honesty" and tells me every time he has contact with her. In the last 2 weeks they have had to work together fairly closely, it is a relatively small company and signs of the fog moving back in were apparent. I had a melt-down on Friday (LB'ed all over the place - the "old woman" was back). She left a message that he offered to let me hear saying "it's me" can I have Friday off for a job interview so we can take care of "our little problem." I called her, said "its me", but I guess you don't know my voice, I am Richard's wife and would like to talk to you about your inappropriate behavior with my husband and "our little problem." Although I met with her in early May (with WS's full support) to explain how important to our marriage it was for to be out of our lives, gave her job leads and offered to help her financially while she spent her full efforts searching for a job, she declined. <P>On Saturday morning, he told me that he really appreciated my efforts to "fight" for him. We are going to try to decide tonight, together, how to best rid her from our lives and marriage.<P>I have had many bottom lines that have changed. There is a fine line between being a doormat and the giving of unconditional love. I am still trying to find my way. Although I am a thinker, I have begun to really understand my emotions and believe in "gut instinct". Funny thing about "bottom lines" is that they are not found through "logic", they are found through understanding yourself and how much emotional scarring you can take and still open your heart again. You may more easily find your bottom line.<P>I am more hopeful that we will recover now than I have ever been, but I also know that we are in for a very difficult ride.<P>Your WS may be a "thinker" in every area of his life, but he is not thinking now. I believe that the fact he is a "thinker" is to your benefit. He may be much more able to see the mistake he is making, through applying logic, much more quickly than someone like my WS. I have had to gently, and with love, and sometimes by showing my pain and anger, give him the logic of the situation. He has been very slow to see, but is apparently seeing now.<P>I will look for your posts and hope for your progress.<P>Newwoman <P> <P>

Have either of you ever taken the personality typing test? <A HREF="http://www.personalitytype.com" TARGET=_blank>www.personalitytype.com</A> <P>Has been very helpful to me and as a result I've spent less time here and more time on what really matters to me in life. actually has also helped tremenously in my marriage.<P>Don't misunderstand...This site has been a life saver for me and I've met the BEST people in the world here.<BR>d2k

<B>Have either of you ever taken the personality typing test? <A HREF="http://www.personalitytype.com" TARGET=_blank>www.personalitytype.com</A> <BR>Has been very helpful to me and as a result I've spent less time here and more time on what really matters to me in life. actually has also helped tremenously in my marriage.<BR></B><P>I went to this site, and took the test. I didn't see a lot of stuff to help me understand WHAT I'm supposed to do with that info once I knew our personality types, tho. Maybe you could redirect me?<P>NewMe2000: This is one of the things I LOVE about this site!!! It lets us see that we are NOT alone, nor unique in our situation....before I found this site, I thought NO ONE could help me. NO ONE could understand it all, it's just SO unique. Now I know that's not true, and a lot of people are going through things EXACTLY like I am, and they (and I) will get through it! I love this place, and the help it's been for me.<P>Newwoman: I thank you for answering my post....yes, I think you ARE the one who has advice about "bottom lines" since I think you knew when and where you had to draw the line, and it worked!! I would want to think I will do that, too, but unfortunately, like a LOT of things we've all discovered from here, we honestly DON'T KNOW what we would do given a particular set of circumstances until we stand face-to-face with them.<P><B>He has now disclosed that he moved out to show the OW that he was committed to leaving me.</B><BR>Yes, this is what I believe my H did! Of course, I don't really know, since he's not here to ask but the fact that he "packed" and left with barely the clothes on his back makes me believe he left with help (or let's call it "gentle persuasion") - I truly believe his OW threatened to tell me about their A if he didn't get to her by such and such a date.....if you'd seen him Waffling just the day before he left, you'd know what I'm saying.<P><B>Your WS may be a "thinker" in every area of his life, but he is not thinking now. I believe that the fact he is a "thinker" is to your benefit. He may be much more able to see the mistake he is making, through applying logic</B><BR>I believe this too. However, I also think his OW is a sneaky manipulative....b****, well, you know. I mean, she CHASED him for well over a year before he began to be secretive about his involvement with her, and I believe he was honestly "led to slaughter" like a lamb in her clutches. I'm not exonerating him. I'm fully aware of his part in this TRAIN WRECK that has become my life, but I think that his "thinker" could see no solution, once the "deed was done" and (I conclude - NO proof) she was threatening to tell me about it. Soooo, being the "honorable" man he was still trying to remain (!) he did the only thing he thought he could! Instead of telling me about it, so we could head it off at the pass.<P>Having said that, and endured what we have up to this point, I think my H's "thinker" is now thinking again....I believe he is having moments of "fog-lessness". To see what I mean, find my post under Prayer Requests "Contact From the Mothership?" and read what events have transpired lately. No, Nothing concrete, but enough "circumstantial and "spiritual" events to scare even the staunchest disbeliever.<P>I will keep you all in my prayers, and will keep you posted on any "positive" movement from out of the Mothership!" <P>Lupo <BR>