Hi everybody, I've been reading and following this BB for most of the day today and I feel I could use some advice. I've read Dr. Harley's topics and well here goes....<P>I've been married for almost 13 yrs., a "great M." as my W puts it. She moved out mid to late May to be with the OM. She now lives with him. For the last 6 weeks I've had the kids and she has seen them very little. We now are in the joint custody phase even though the separation agreement isn't finalized. She has said all the mean things to me "I don't love you, It's over etc. but she calls sometimes to talk to the kids but then we talk anyway. She has already bought a house that she will move into next month alone she says. When she talks about our M. she has nothing bad to say about it our about me. She says this OM is in her head. She says that when he talks she listens. She says physically I am way more appealling and in most other ways also, but he can talk. The decisions she is making, to me, seen totally irrational could be this fog that I keep hearing about. When she talks about her relationship with OM she says things like "I've committed to him... for now, or this is where I want to be ..right now. There always seems to be a trailer on the end of her sentences. <BR> I've been told it is not about us but her, she has very low self esteem. Maybe I'm reading more into this than there is???<BR> Where do I go from here?<BR> Do I need to give more information??<BR> I love her deeply but maybe I SHOULD GIVE UP AND LET THING happen. I am not like that though I am a doer.<BR>Any advice<BR>

deeplyinlove,<P> My W said the exact same things to me. She said to me that I love you, but I am not in love with you. She also talked about her self esteem. Have you read Surviving an Affair? You you haven't you need to get a copy and start a Plan A. I know that it hurts. We are all here for you.<P>Indy

<BR>Hello and Welcome to Marriage Builders!<P>First, I would like to share two links with you. Just click on the underlined links here, and read –><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi10_tour.html" TARGET=_blank>Tour of Marriage Builders</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000553.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome</A>. <P>Please read everything you can on this site, post and read often!! <P>I have been betrayed and betrayer, so I have the dubious honor of knowing what infidelity does from BOTH SIDES of the situation. <P>I believe in the concepts espoused here, if applied properly. One idea that has worked *wonders* for some couples is Plan A. Read about it here –><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>What Are Plan A and Plan B</A>.<P>Use what you learn here to make your marriage a safe place where you do your best to meet the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A> of your spouse,and avoid <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A> whenever possible. . When a decision must be made, use the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>POJA</A> to determine the final outcome that you can both agree upon.<P>Many couples find that counseling is VERY helpful, and the counseling provided here is excellent for several reasons; but the most important is that it goes along with the concepts here. Check it out here –> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7000_counsel.html" TARGET=_blank>Counsel Link</A><P>Again, welcome to our community, and feel free to write often and ask lots of questions!<P><B>about your post</B>: Don't give up... everything she's said is in the Infidelity Handbook (as we call it, and it's a joke almost, because it's embarassing how many WS's say this stuff)... <P>Read about Plan A and live it, breathe it!!!!<P><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>And we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino

Thanks Nyneve and Indy for your Quick reply. I'm trying to live Plan A but I find it very frustrating at times because I don't see any results yet. I kind of unknowingly gone the reverse route on advice from our school counsellor and my lawyer. I think I started Plan B and now I'm doing plan A. I just got off the phone with my kids, she's got them, and "their having a great time" and then I talked to her and was very nice but, she told me that she is happy with her decision or she wouldn't have gone this far. Is this all part of the process??

What are usually the results of using Plan A, immediate and longer term? <BR>How long do I use Plan A before I switch to plan B?

Plan A can last as long as you want it to (and it will be better for your psyche to use it as long as possible) but the average (if I remember) is 18 months -- or until you begin to lose the "love" feelings for your W.<P>It is LONG TERM, and permanent!!!

What do you mean long term and permanent?

Immediate results... you learn about yourself. YOu learn how much strength you have. You learn to be a better giver in ALL relationships. You learn how to truly love your spouse unconditionally. If the fog clears just enough, your WS will see your efforts and recognize the improvements. Might keep them from running away completely - if you are becoming a better person, they will want to stick around and wonder if they are making a stupid mistake by pursuing OP.<P>Long Term... the rescue of your marriage, and make it better than ever. OR the satisfaction that you did EVERYTHING you could to rescue the marriage - even if your WS never comes to their senses.<P>How long to Plan A.. Read some more posts to find YOUR answer. Every BS is different and every situation is different. Basically, as long as you can. Good answer, huh? I've learned here that when your love for your foggy WS is dying, then you can't give anymore, so you protect the love that's left, and move to Plan B.<P>Hope that helps! Stick around. Read some stories. cry with us, laugh with us, ask questions.<P>------------------<BR>Faith1<P>[This message has been edited by Faith1 (edited July 10, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Faith1 (edited July 10, 2001).]

I know I already said this but I just got off the phone with my children, she has them for her week, I talked to them then to her. I am afraid that she is not a strong enough person and if her A starts going south she won't break free because of the ramifications this A has caused. I asked her about that and she replied that she was very happy with her decision and that is why she has taken it this far. <BR>Is this all part of the process/fog/<BR>Has she gone as far as others??<P>deeplyinlove

Others have gone further, even... Frank (his name is PLEASE HELP)... his wife MARRIED her OM and now is coming home and remarrying Frank. It can and does happen!<P>Plan A, Plan A, Plan A... live it, breathe it!!! It is for YOU, and ultimately will make YOU strong, no matter what she decides. Did you really read though it? I mean, take it in, find a way to LIVE IT? Look for posts by Lostva, and begin a thread to her... her H moved out with his OW, her child called him Daddy, and yet, her H realized (quite quickly, less than a year) what he was missing and CAME HOME...

It hurts so much to be nice to all the things she says. (What is Infidelity Handbook?) It always sounds so final whenever she says something to me, it sounds like she is in the relationship she wants to be in, "I'm very happy now". <BR>When WS gets into an A is this common??<BR>Help, like everybody, I thought our M was rock solid. She told me that her love for me is still there but not as a mate but a friend. She says she is committed to OM.<P>deeplyinlove

Welcome to the MB family and so sorry you have a need to be here. The more you stick around here and read posts, the more you unfortunately realize, you are not alone. Your problems are not unique. There are too many of us either in the same boat or we've been there. <P>I was fortunate enough to get off that boat and on shore to a happy future. My H and I have been rebuilding our marriage for 3 1/2 yrs now and I can't begin to tell you how much all the efforts have been worth it. I also heard those hurtful mean words while he was involved with the OW. "I love you but I'm not inlove with you,,we make better business partners than spouses" ,,and so on and so on. Although I was not aware he was seeing someone else, I did know the marriage hadn't been THAT bad. Now, after he has not had contact with the OW for 3 1/2 yrs, he can't imagine how he could ever have said those things. He deeply regrets it and marvels at the fact that I still love him.<P>I'm not as good as my pal Nyneve at adding links but there was a recent topic called " hurtful things waywards say, and later didn't really mean? " If that doesn't link you, try entering it in the "search" area above. That post should convince you, we have heard it all.<BR> <BR>Best of luck to you. Stay around,,read, read, read and post.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nerlycrzy:<BR><B><BR>I'm not as good as my pal Nyneve at adding links but there was a recent topic called " hurtful things waywards say, and later didn't really mean? " </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Here ya go! Just click on the underlined words here --> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/002021.html" TARGET=_blank>Hurtful Things the WS Says</A>

See what I mean,,,,always someone here to come through for you when you need them most!! LOL Thanks Nyneve

Thanks NyNeve! That's great! I haven't seen that... Maybe all the WS'a have a handbook with those things that they pass around to each other so they know what to say. <P>------------------<BR>Faith1

See, this is what happens when you have waaaaaay too much time on your hands! <P>You're welcome, by the way!!

I read allllll the "hurtful things waywards ..." but didn't were these things recanted . I would assume that during the rebuilding process these hurtful things would be brought up ?<BR>Any replies or actual situations?<P>deeplyinlove

Those WERE actual situations you read about... and some were recanted when the WS came home... you will not know in your situation until your W comes home... so... have a PLAN!!<P>Begin with Plan A... and keep it going until you can't go anymore!!

The kids just called again and again as per usual I talked to my wife, I heard her say out loud that she had nothing to talk to me about but she came on the phone anyway, I'm not sure if that was for my benefit to hear or OM who was in the room. <BR>We talked about the kids and how good a job we did raising them to this point (8 and 5 yrs. old) and I mentioned the fact how good looking they are, just like their mom.I talked about this joint sharing of 1 week and 1 week is not good for the kids. I also talked about the fact that we didn't have a bad M and she replied that it was a good M.<BR>So what gives, am I going crazy, am I reading something into this, is this all part of the process? Am I being too nice?, I ended the conversation by telling her I am not ready to give up on 17 yrs and 13 yrs of marriage, she said "I know" then I said "I love you " and hung up, so did I do ok or did over do it??? :confussed:<P>deeplyinlove

I read alot of Lostva replies. It seems she is well versed in these situations.<P>deeplyinlove